To those who challenged Dean's statement about Saddam

[dsc]

What do you say now? The news I have caught today has all been about the increased number and increased seriousness of threats against America. So just how is America safer with Saddam caught again? Don't increased terrorist threats suggest we may well be less safe? Care to explain just how his statement has been shown to be wrong?

[caledesi]

1. Dean is right. Let's see what happens in Iraq now that SH is gone.

The Iraqis who feared a return of SH, can now speak out against the occupation w/o fear of SH returning.

This is a big mess.

[lurk_no_more]

2. I didn't see Dean's statement

but isn't this a common ploy to keep the focus off what should really be in the news, like how 9/11 could've been prevented?

If Dean's statement asked if we were safer after Saddams capture? the answer is NO, then Dean was correct.

To think that the capture of Saddam would make us safer is stupid. Who said they thought we were safer now?



Just food for thought from....”JAFO”

[frustrated_lefty]

6. Ummm

virtually every other democratic candidate who had a voice in the news. I'm not sure about Sharpton, Kucinich and Mosely-Braun.

[Cha]

7. Welcome to DU! lurk_no_more!

like the picture ..very descriptive.

[madfloridian]

9. That is how the other side is trying to define the issue.

Dean does not let them. He keeps taking a stance. I like that.

Love your sig line! }(

[HFishbine]

30. "Who said they thought we were safer now?"

Every reich wing pundit, politician and journalist -- oh yeah, and Joe Lieberman.

[madfloridian]

3. His clear stances won over two of our neighbors yesterday.

They watched his address on C-Span. They had teased us about our Dean sign and our activism. Yesterday one actually went out of his way to say that he could why we supported him. Both said they felt like there was hope after listening to him.

[Scott Lee]

4. No fair dsc! The AntiDean Spin Team hasn't had time to go at this!

Be fair, at least give them some time to spin Dean's words into something they can attack, you cruel thing!

[windansea]

5. pew poll

Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates. Dec. 15-17, 2003. N=815 adults nationwide. MoE ± 4 (total sample).
.

"Do you think the U.S. made the right decision or the wrong decision in using military force against Iraq?"

Right Wrong Don't
Know
% % %
12/03 67 26 7

[dsc]

8. You must have liked essay tests in college

because you sure didn't answer my question.

[frustrated_lefty]

10. Not the same question.

Is America safer?

[windansea]

17. true

but there is heavy linkage

[clarknyc]

11. I'd like

to hear the respondants answer why they think the U.S. is right or wrong.

[Eveque]

13. WOW

I had no idea it was that great a percentage

[slinkerwink]

15. welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[newyawker99]

29. Hi Eveque!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ViognierSipper]

34. I agree windnsea

Most Americans obviously think the Iraq war was the right thing to do. Kerry is hands down the best nominee to lead our country because he has been in Washington so long and has the experience. (Don't forget the BFEE!). Dean is like Mondale, there is NO WAY people that he can win! No Way!! We have to vote for a winner and the winner is KERRY!!!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. So Kerry is FOR the war NOW?

My head is spinning!

[madfloridian]

12. I heard we might go on orange,dsc, did you hear that?

Maybe we are not safer after all?
:shrug:

[dsc]

14. I have only caught bits and pieces to be fair

but the local news implied heavily that there would be increased security.

[madfloridian]

16. Yes, they really emphasized how unsafe we were.

That shows we are not really safer.

[Scott Lee]

21. Yes, you see the 9/11 Investigations are heating up.....

time to pull some attention from them!

FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR! (don't listen to what Kean is saying) FEAR FEAR fEAR FEAR!!!

[dsc]

18. I'm still waiting

We were told Dean was a lying crack pot for making that statement by some people here. Yet when I ask for proof the statment is wrong I get stiffed. If it was such a crack pot statement shouldn't it be more easily refuted than this?

[dajabr]

19. Even Eleanor Clift did a mea culpa on this one, dsc.

And yet, Dean gets no quarter from "real" Dems here?

:puke:

ed: spelling

[dsc]

20. God that is bad

Clift is awful the fact she gets it should really be a wake up call.

[slinkerwink]

23. who's eleanor clift?

[dajabr]

24. Right-Wing Harpy Columnist & talking head (nt)

[Zomby Woof]

42. must be why Helen Thomas praises her!

http://eleanorclift.com/foundingsisters.html

See the blurb for Clift's new book. Some "right-wing harpy"! :eyes:

[Zomby Woof]

41. she's actually liberal

But since she doesn't write glowing praise of Dean 100% of the time, that makes her 'right-wing' according to the new ideological paradigm at DU.

Slinker, check this link out for yourself... she's written a great account of women's suffrage in America:

http://eleanorclift.com/foundingsisters.html

[ClintonTyree]

22. Dean's statement.................

could prove to be his Waterloo or his victory in 2004. At present, the Ameriacn public see the capture of Saddam as a positive step in the war on terrorism. These are the same people that think Saddam was involved on 9/11.
If in the coming months, the situation in Iraq stays the same or worsens, Dean will be looked upon in a more favorable light and this could become a centerpiece issue in the 2004 election.
If hostilties lessen, it's be his Waterloo. Bush will win in a romp.
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind. We'll have to wait and see. I believe that Iraq will be a total quagmire months, even years from now and that this could be George Bush's undoing.

[sandnsea]

25. He disagrees with Clark too then

"As I said when I heard about it, it is good news that American forces captured Hussein. It is good news because it increases the chances of America succeeding in Iraq...
If we succeed in Iraq, America will be safer."
http://clark04.com/speeches/021/

That's all anybody is saying. Nobody is saying America, or even Iraq, is instantly safe because Saddam has been captured. They've all said there is still work to be done in Iraq, al qaeda needs to be focused on, more needs to be done at home, etc. Nobody is saying that Saddam is gone and everything is safe now. That's just another Dean Distortion.

[dsc]

26. Maybe you need to actually read what people have been posting

Dean was taken apart here for stating America wasn't safer, and BTW Clark only says it increases the probability of America being safer, and we demonstably aren't safer. Moving from yellow to orange is less safe. So Dean was correct. Maybe Clark is too, in the long term. Though it must be said, that anyone who thinks Saddam was actually running anything from that hole is a loon.

[w13rd0]

27. He was using an innovative system of scented flatulance...

...to issue complex commands to his fedykin ninja, scented flatulance developed from the concept of a program for weapons of mass incapacitation.

[HFishbine]

31. Not sure what you're trying to say

But them's a lot of funny words!

[sandnsea]

28. Maybe you should read

What people actually say rather than what Dean or the media says they say. The complete statements, not just sound bytes to stir up dirt and deflect attention away from Dean's inadequacies.

"We need a President who can take us back to America’s rightful path in the world because President Bush has taken us so far off course. Whether it is failing to support a new Afghanistan or supporting a failed coup in Venezuela, whether it is pushing the world away on the Kyoto treaty or pushing the world into danger over North Korea, this Administration’s go-it-alone attitude has endangered our interests and enraged those who should be our friends.

Nowhere is that clearer than in Iraq. The Bush Administration has not just been unilateralist in war, but unilateralist in the ongoing guerilla struggle. And we have been paying too high a price – in dollars and the deaths of young Americans – to continue down this road. Let’s be clear: Our problems in Iraq have not been caused by one man – and simply capturing Saddam Hussein does not finally and fully clear the path to a peaceful and democratic outcome. This is a moment of opportunity, a turning point when the Administration can and should face the realities of how you gain international support in this effort. We cannot expect other nations to join us now if the Administration prohibits them from sharing the reconstruction because they opposed us previously. That not only defies common sense – it’s childish retribution which puts our troops at greater risk. It’s time we leave no doubt what we believe: Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people, not Halliburton and Bechtel."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1216.html

[TexasPatriot]

33. a good statement from the kerry campaign

reasoned, well considered, and likely accurate. again i dont see what the Dean Supporters have to gain by calling attention to a statement by their candidate that makes him out to be naive on foreign policy. You should be ignoring it and hoping threads like this die.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. Naive?

Have you seen Saddam's Spiderhole Command Center yet?

[dsc]

39. I wasn't comment on Kerry alone

I specifically mention here at DU in my post. And I stand behind my characterization of what those posts said. I really wish you would either read people's posts or refrain from responding. It is tiresome to have people claim I said things I haven't.

[Blue_Roses]

32. there is no way

capturing Saddam makes us safer, if anything it ups our chances of being attacked. Saddam wasn't after the US, but Bin Laden is.

[DFLforever]

35. As Dean again proves - he's gets the point of this hideous game

called the Iraq War.

[killbotfactory]

38. I wish candidates would stop treating us like idiots...

Who can't weigh the cost and benefits of the Iraq war.

Is it a good thing Saddam's in our custody? Yes.

Does that make us safer? Not yet. Thanks to Bush and his enablers, we rushed into war without adequate support, without a coherent plan to stabalize the country, without any evidence (that was not discredited beforet the war, anyway) that Iraq was a threat to the US or working with terrorists, without much of any idea what weapons Saddam had or how we were planning on capturing them without them slipping out of the country, and without any way to foot the bill without hurting us domestically by cutting funding away from needed programs. Now our soldier are stuck there until we can get the UN in, unless we just want to cut and run and let the risk of a fundamentalist regime who hates America take power, or a civil war breaking out, or neighboring countries trying to seize power covertly, or whatever else can go wrong that will. And our soldiers are all targets for any piece of crap that can pick up a gun or make a bomb. How the hell are we safer now than when we had Saddam contained and inspectors combing his country?

[HFishbine]

40. Americans Agree With Dean

New Newsweek Poll (Dec. 20):

51 percent of Americans say they don’t feel much safer or more secure now that Saddam is in custody (41 percent do).

http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3768353&p1=0