Obama is corrupt. He's a warmonger. He's a fraud.

[cali]

that crap is not criticism. Ir's calumny. And I'm sick of seeing that crap being dishonestly passed off as legitimate criticism. If that's the way you feel, if you won't even consider voting for him, stop lying to everyone here and to yourself about "just keeping him honest" and "pressuring him to do the right thing".

It's just nauseating. And so fucking dishonest. Want to destroy Obama? You really are on the wrong site.

End of fucking rant.

[greenbriar]

1. this

exactly

[NikRik]

293. Alot of the anti Obama go to far !

However I do have some legitamite questions about what he is doing ,or rather what he is not doing ? I voted for Obama with great expactations that he would take drastic action on a couple of things. First of all I thought he would move towards getting us out of the money and life sucking war in Iraq , I also believed he would do a FDR like domestic action to give imediate relief to those without work ? Iam one of those unempoyed and instead of givings billions of $ to big companies and banks ,I was hoping for direct relief to the individual tax payer and I mean everyone both the employed and those without jobs . I believe by putting cash directly into the consumers pocket would be the best way to stimulate the economy quickly and it would give relief to those suffering from the current state of our economy ! Remember during the campaign for President all the talk about "main street" ? Well its time to walk the walk ,and give $ directly to the consumer perhaps a good start would be 10K per tax payer & unemployed former tax payers ! Lets stop wasting time ,there are people who are suffering ,becoming homeless etc. Its time to take care of the people directly !
Any thoughts on what Iam saying ?
Take Care to All
NikRik

[Thrill]

2. Some are just as bad as Freepers. We saw it during the primaries too

[cali]

3. some of this shit is just beyond the pale.

sickening. And people posting that shit, should do it elsewhere.

[greenbriar]

4. agree

100%

[Fire1]

45. Yeah. What she said.

[obiwan]

115. I second that emotion.

[MNDemNY]

156. Is it OK to say that Pres. Obama seems to be stepping on the Constitution(wire-tapping) and selling....

human rights down the river(not prosecuting war criminals {allowing the Nuremberg defense of "i was following orders", to stand} or is that just O bashing?? I stand by ALL the statements I made during the primaries. FYI I supported the Obama campaign with my time and $, as I have always supported the Democratic Party. I and others, have the RIGHT to criticize this and ANY President when I/we, see fit.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

186. Like this post

If you aren't disappointed with some of Obama's decisions so far, you either are marching in lockstep or you aren't paying attention.

[cali]

289. yes, of course. That's criticism. I don't wholly agree with it

And I've found that DUers, as a whole, are sadly ignorant about the Nuremberg Trials, but that's criticism and not merely bashing.

[niceypoo]

153. Some of those attacking him were his most ferverant supporters

during the primaries.

Myself, I will give him a couple of years and see what happens. Im just glad to have a president that is the smartest guy in the room, rather than the dumbest which is what we had the last eight years.

The fantasies that we have in our heads about the perfect political world dont necessarily match up with the realities that Obama faces on the ground. Give him some time to work things through.

To the chagrin of many, he is doing EXACTLY what he said he would do. I think some people believed that he would be some sort of liberals wet dream. Well, reality doesnt quite work that way.

[MNDemNY]

157. I will "give" no one "a couple of years" to uphold the Constitution.

[niceypoo]

158. I will give him a couple of years to fix the economy...

Deal with the republicans BS and get the country on the right track again. Miracles wont happen over night. He isn't going to undo everything in 2 months. Life isnt that simple. I believe that in the end he will have done what was right. In the meantime I wont pee my pants every time the TV pundits speculate or insinuate something.

[JDPriestly]

163. Punishing torturers is a no-brainer. It would not take a miracle.

Allowing the release of the information on the illegal wiretapping would not take a miracle. These are simple acts that cost nothing, that would delay nothing, and that would save our country from further attacks on us by the ignorant victims of right-wing extremists in our country.

I support Obama on the high-speed rail, on the energy independence and on many other things. But I do not support him when he cowtows to Wall Street and refuses to prosecute those who authorized illegal wiretapping and torture (which may have resulted in at least one death -- read Jane Mayer's The Dark Side).

Obama needs to demonstrate that he has the courage to make the tough decisions that will get American back on the right track. He needs to fire Geithner and Summers. He needs to prosecute Bush and Cheney and the others who made the decision to torture and who violated FISA.

I say this because I want Obama to succeed. Strength and moral courage in confronting and prosecuting the criminal acts such as torture of the Bush administration, honesty in the face of greed that ruined our economy -- will earn Obama respect and success. Lincoln is respected because he stood for what was right. He was fearless in the face of evil. He did not back down and just allow slavery to continue. Obama needs to follow Lincoln's example in this respect.

When good people are weak, they fail and evil prevails. That's what happened in Germany in the 1930s. Everyone knew about the shattering of the store windows of the Jews and about the taking of their property. But, because little crimes by the NAZIs were not prosecuted, they were able to intimidate the population, earn their respect and take power. Our situation is parallel to that of pre-NAZI Germany. The urge to resolve frustration by actions outside the law is prevalent in the extreme right wing of the Republican Party. The torture and wiretapping are two among a number of incidents that warn us about where we are going. These crimes cannot be overlooked. They cannot be forgotten. They will not just fade from history because they have been acknowledged. An apology and promise of reform are not enough to change the direction that the Bush administration took us in.

Obama's response to the crimes of the Bush administration and the greed of Wall Street reveal his weakness. He knows what is right. He needs to find the courage to act accordingly. I want him to succeed. I just know that he will fail if he continues to allow things to go without prosecutions.

[radiclib]

235. Thank you

What I love about DU is that someone always expresses my thoughts exactly, and much better than I could. Well said, JD, and thank you. :applause:

[MNDemNY]

252. YES.

[mikehiggins]

280. maybe weakness, maybe low cunning

I doubt that O is weak in any meaningful way. I beleive that what is happening is in line with his "big idea" agenda and he doesn't want to get sidetracked anymore than he has to.

There is no statute of limitations on war crimes, so far as I know. Just look at the Nazis who were tracked down and punished, even in recent years.

Once we have the economy coming back, and health care started and the energy cap and all those other things are in place, there will still be time to punish the wrongdoers. If I'm right, you can be sure that their only escape will be dying.

If I'm wrong, we can vote against O in 2012.

[cali]

290. Well, that strikes me as Candide thinking.

none of what you suggest is simple, actually is simple. The exigencies are myriad. I find your post stunningly naive.

[Raksha]

208. I agree with you and the previous poster - I'll give him a couple of years

to deal with the economy, but I will NOT give him a couple of years to uphold the Constitution! The economy is a complicated mess, and we didn't get into it overnight. We aren't going to get out of it overnight either. But the Constitution is another story.

[MNDemNY]

251. I'll give him that , with ease. But not the other.

[RaleighNCDUer]

185. It is so much better to fight valiently now

and turn congress over to the republicans in '10, like Clinton did, than to actually accomplish anything.

Politics is the art of the possible. I would LOVE to see Bush in the dock for his crimes, but it is not possible. That doesn't mean it will always be so. Pinochet was out of power for nearly ten years before he faced charges for his crimes against his people. Even today, after 60 years, people are still facing charges for their crimes under the Nazis (like the guy who is being deported for being a concentration camp guard after living here since '48). Even in Argentina, after the government gave a blanket amnesty to the Junta's crimes, prosecutors are finding ways to circumvent that amnesty.

Justice delayed is NOT necessarily justice denied.

[Maraya1969]

213. This is what I have been thinking. Maybe he is waiting for some opportune

moment. I heard about that NAZI guy who is finally being charged for crimes during that awful time. Obama is a great strategist. He may be playing the cards right so that in the future bush and cheney and their ilk can be held responsible for what they did.

I also feel that the higher ups need to be prosecuted first rather than the underlings who were "following orders". Granted they are responsible also but I think the ones that authorized the torture should be held accountable first.

[nichomachus]

168. How long did you give Bush

to "see what happens" before you started criticizing him?

[butterfly77]

159. That is because..

a lot of them are freepers or they didn't vote for him at all..They are here on DU to change some votes for the next election.

[JDPriestly]

165. I criticize Obama's failure with regard to prosecuting torture,

hiding the extent of the wiretapping and failing to hire a diverse team of economic advisers. I support him with regard to many of his policies including his international policies, his environmental and transportation policies, his discrimination policies and so many other (most other) things.

I not only voted for Obama. I walked precincts for him. I worked for him. I am criticizing him because I want him to succeed.

[butterfly77]

201. How about...

some critcism for these weak-kneed congress men and senators,who change bills, and are really working with and for the republicons to stop anything the Pres and we the people want done..

[cali]

291. LOL. It's not up to Obama to prosecute anyone.

It is up to him to direct his Justice Department to investigate wrongdoing. I love the childlike view that Obama is all powerful. It's kind of touching.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

189. Yeah you got me pissed

I donated to Obama's campaign when I was unemployed and frankly didn't have the money to do so, I went door to door with the Obama campaign and registered people to vote and worked in my town's local Obama campaign office. Hell, I even supported him pre-2004 when he was running for senate in my state of Illinois. So don't tell me that just because I am unhappy with some things he is doing that I am just as bad as a Freeper. I am unhappy with his policy on Afghanistan, I am unhappy with his policy on allowing the Bush cabal to get away with torture, I am unhappy with the Wall Street insiders running his economic team, and now you are telling me that I am nothing more than a Freeper because I have disagreements with his policies? Shame on you.

[Baltoman991]

5. I read

that corrupt, fraud garbage on another thread and it left me seething.

You are absolutely right, it goes far beyond constructive criticism, it's down right bullshit.

Allow me to K & R your post.

[Qutzupalotl]

164. Same here.

From now on, I'm going to call bullshit when I see stuff like that... if the posters don't even try to see a rational explanation, or reject them out of hand in favor of their conspiracy theory.

Let's face it, it makes no sense that a guy who devoted his life to fairness, to studying the constitution, would capitulate for... what exactly?

[TTUBatfan2008]

6. What bothers me...

is that so many on here should know the history of the CIA. When dealing with them, things are never cut and dry. For all we know they threatened Obama with assassination if he didn't clear their people of wrongdoing. They took Kennedy out and I'm sure they'd have no problem doing it again if it suits their agenda.

[asphalt.jungle]

11. maybe he just feels that this is the right approach

why should people here contemplate scenarios where their president is a coward who is hiding in fear of his life? is that really the opinion you want us to have of barack obama? you think he disagrees with his own approach and is just doing so to protect him and his family ... sweet jebus.

[TTUBatfan2008]

14. Based on the way he's talked about legal issues in the past...

I would not be a bit surprised if that's what is going on. Never underestimate the power of the CIA. That's my motto. They have practically unlimited funding to do whatever the fuck they want and I wouldn't be surprised if 75% of their activity on a daily basis is illegal. Bottom line, if I were Obama I wouldn't fuck with them either if they threatened violence.

[asphalt.jungle]

28. if that's the way you feel then we don't have a democracy

we're at the mercy of the CIA. they tell our "elected" leaders what they can do. maybe bush was under orders by the all powerful CIA to do what he did and is not a bad guy afterall.

i'm just not ready to buy into that. i wouldn't waste my time on this board or engaging in anything political if i didn't feel the people we elected actually ran the country. they may do things we disagree with, but it's not because someone is threatening to kill them but because it's a political chess move for them and they want to try to win the match (the agenda they ran on).

[TTUBatfan2008]

29. Technically we don't have a democracy at all...it's a democratic republic...

Having said that, perhaps I'm too much of a cynic. I believe in the "smokey room" theories. CIA, military industrial complex, bankers, etc. have far more power than the POTUS and I think they have the ability to control the POTUS whether it be by threatening him/her politically or literally.

[OwnedByFerrets]

91. My glass half full mentality believes you are correct

[LostinVA]

39. We don't have a democracy at all

It's a Representative Republic. We have no legal right to a vote.

[bagrman]

162. It's the Matrix, Is any of it real?

Google converstions with the crow... Ex company man unloads after years of service, before he dies.

[JDPriestly]

167. If Obama does not prosecute those who authorized the torture,

then we really are manipulated and ultimately controlled by the CIA (and whoever owns it). That is exactly why I think it is so important to prosecute regarding the torture and the wiretapping.

[redqueen]

137. Thank you.

Several things he's done so far look like more of his political jiu jitsu to me.

[JDPriestly]

166. I believe Obama made a deal. The tape showing an interview

between Al Jazeera English and Armitage -- Armitage's body language -- causes me to think that.

[AllentownJake]

7. There are limits to the power of the Presidency

I don't think the President has the power right now to do what some people want and still be able to do the other things we want.

[vaberella]

51. People always forget that he doesn't have total power. I said this in another post of mine.

If this was an absolute Monarchy like under Bush sure thing. However, it's not and we have a law of the land to follow.

[winyanstaz]

222. actually since Obama has not pushed to restore the Constitution

or the Military Commissions act or to repel the Patriot Acts (which we all know gutted the Constitution)...we are still under Bush's "dictatorship" in that Obama still has all those powers Bush and co gave the presidency.
I am waiting for him to give up the power to declare anyone a terrorist and rendition and close all those secret prisons...not just the one and move people around like is being done so far.
He has kept the spying on civilains that bush was doing..he has kept the wars...50 thousand troops left in iraq is not ending the war..in fact he has escalated the Afghanistan war and started bombing targets and civilians with drones in Pakistan.
He has kept many of the same players in different job titles and he has pushed to keep habeas corpus beyond the grasp of the citizens of this nation. As a matter of fact..he has kept much of Bush's policies. If I didn't like them under Bush why should I accept them under Obama?
Sorry, I really don't see much change so far.
So we should just shut up already? I don't think so.
I voted for Obama. I would love to see him clean up this mess. I am still giving him time...but I feel I have the duty and right to say when I am not happy with his actions or lack there of.

[mmonk]

109. Not anymore.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

161. agreed

The complexities he must deal with are way beyond what most of us here have ever had to juggle.

Right timing is a big part of the process, (as it is in life). I suppose if he followed the puppetkingoftheneocons model, he might jump into actions that sound good to us, but aren't thought through. I think we've had enough of that.

Isn't considering the consequences of your actions, and long term vision kind of... a GROWN-UP thing?

[JDPriestly]

169. He has the power to state that the CIA operatives who committed the

torture will not be prosecuted. He therefore has the power to state that those who authorized the torture will be prosecuted. He also has the power to release the information about the illegal wiretapping (that took place under a different administration, hopefully) and to consult with a more diverse group of economic advisers and replace Geithner and Summers with economists not so closely associated with the financial industry. How about Obama listening more to Elizabeth Warren and less to Larry Summers? Wouldn't that be a better direction? Wouldn't that enhance the likelihood of his success as president? I think so.

[Moochy]

183. K&R

[RaleighNCDUer]

192. If he were to clearly state that those who authorized the torture will be prosecuted

before he has cleared the Justice Department of hostile Bushco appointees, the shredders and incinerators would go into hyperdrive.

Is it not notable that he has NOT said they will NOT be prosecuted?

[avaistheone1]

284. huh?

:think:

[depakid]

8. Sure would be nice if folks would knock the strawman shit off

Enough with the hyperbole and finger pointing already. Crikey.

[cali]

10. those are quotes. and that makes it NOT hyperbole

and those quotes are hardly singular. Criticism is a good thing. That kind of shit- and it's way too common, just sucks.

[depakid]

16. Folks really need calm down and get off their "outrage" sopboxes

If yesterday's tea parties taught us anything at all- it was who the REAL Obama haters are. Fair dinkum, as the Aussies might say.

[cali]

17. sorry, but people who post shit like the crap I noted in the OP

hate Obama every little bit as much as the tea baggers. And at least the baggers don't post here.

[polmaven]

149. Well, not for long, anyway..

And at least the baggers don't post here.

They certainly TRY....But they are - for the most part - gone pretty quickly.

You're right. The kind of crap in the OP is not fair criticism. It is bashing, pure and simple, and absolutely uncalled for here.

[RaleighNCDUer]

193. You think not? nt

[Cha]

23. Yeah, the teabaggers are the drooling stupid

Obama haters..that doesn't mean they aren't on this board.

[depakid]

43. People vent- so what

No reason to start multiple threads about it.

There's plenty of cause for people to be angry- hell, I'm not happy about the decisions either.

Not that I ver really expexted accountability. It's not been priority for this administration on almost any level (other than little guys who download a few tunes- and need to be smacked with 150,000.00 fines).

[Fire1]

52. Vent somewhere else.

[Cha]

57. There will be as many threads started

about the gratuitous attacks on President Obama as needed.

[depakid]

60. That just goes to show your immaturity

[mkultra]

67. it goes to show that we are as willing to fight for him as you are against him

your right to dissent will be countered by our right to criticize.

[depakid]

72. "Willing to fight" LOL -It's message board!

(though sometimes it seem more like daycare for for Manichean mindsets, who can't see beyond "with us" or "agaist us" -which ironically, was one of the things- at least many hoped- that we left behind with BushCo).

Apparently not- seems Bush and the Republicans left their stamp indelibly on quite a few Democrats.

[mkultra]

83. thats right. and its clear you are against us

MILLIONS of people have lost their homes and MILLIONS of people have lost their jobs. Children are going hungry and packing in with other family members. People are living in tents in parks. AND your high and mighty ass is to busy bitching because you want to preserve your right to come down on the man.

There are more important things on the table right now than your self centered ideology. These things need to be dealt with NOW and FIRST. As far as im concerned, your part of the problem. im not ashamed to take sides against you.

[depakid]

90. Attribute whatever you like

Some of us are interested in sound public policy, not Simon says, not follow the leader and surely not some rigid ideology.

We enjoy discussing policy (and strategy) with others who may or may not have the same takes (although one usually hopes with progressives, that we can at least agree on a common set of facts as adduced from the evidence).

[mkultra]

92. one would think

But one would also think that supporting the poor would be the top of the list. Since its not on your radar, then your worthless. You work towards "sound public policy" aka "bashing the hell out of Obama while talking out of ass" and ill work on helping the needy.

now, be sure to go find a group of like minded people to hang out with so that you can all be unique in the same way.

[depakid]

93. "ill work on helping the needy."

Have at it hawse!

[spiritual_gunfighter]

287. Everyone has the right to say what they wish about Obama

USA! USA! But I am very interested in the person who posts on DU, that is perfectly okay with every thing Obama has done so far. Believe me I am giving him a chance, its only been 3 months. If you are calling Obama a fraud after 3 months you are being riduculous. But still I want to meet the person who thought that Obama would appoint Wall Street to his economic team. Appointing the head of AIG to his tax team (which I can live with I guess, but man what a bad idea politically, but when you received as much money as Obama did from AIG you gotta payback in some way). Who thought troop escalation was a great idea in Afghanistan, who thought that not holding accountable the people who actually did the torture was a-okay, and a few other little things that I can live with. Sure Obama isn't perfect I dont expect him to be and when I voted and campaigned for him I knew he wouldn't be the "be all end all" that many people including people on this board were saying he was (Obama was my senator I kinda knew the person he was and what kind of politician he was), he is still leagues better than Hillary ever would have been, and don't even mention McCain. So all I am saying that if you are telling people that you can't have problems with some of his policies how can we really expect the "change we can believe in". Marching lockstep with someone because they have a D after their name has gotten us what exactly? I still think Obama is a great politician and I actually think he cares about people, which is rare IMO as far as politicans go. But seeing some of the posts on this thread and the OP itsself, it seems like you are committing high treason if you don't like some of the things Obama is doing. But I concur calling Obama a warmonger, a fraud, and whatever else some of these PUMAs are calling him is nothing short of pathetic and really no one is going to take that seriously are they? Which is why I didn't really see the need for the OP in the first place and until I saw some person on this thread call Obama a warmonger, I didnt even think it was taking place. Oh well battle it out, some people want the primary battles to go on forever I suppose.

[Cha]

180. You have nothing so you resort to

name calling ..I'd expect nothing higher from you.

[Reterr]

256. Actually depakid's posts sound a lot more educated and sane

than those of a lot of people on this board. Nothing to do with the pro or anti-Obama stuff. Just in general....

[Cha]

258. Whatever..he's acting stupid

now.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

288. You claimed he "resorted to name calling"

and you just posted that he was "acting stupid"? This whole arguement about people calling Obama this or that is riduculous. There are always going to be people who want to call him names. Who cares. Who knows why they feel the need to do it, maybe they are PUMAs still fighting the primary battle, maybe they are Freepers, or maybe they feel like Obama came to Washington to shake things up, to bring change, and they aren't seeing it. I know it's only been 3 months but they have a point IMO. He has already done some great things, a lot actually, and he has done somethings that suck frankly. But that is always going to be the way it is. I personally think he is doing a pretty good job, not great but good. So there. Am I a Freeper now, am I a PUMA? Or am I someone that voted for Obama, that likes Obama and knows he can be great, but just wishes he would let himself be.

[Egnever]

182. People vent- so what

Isnt that what Cali is doing?

If you dont care about venting why post to this thread?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

257. The OP is dishonest

I have been looking for these people saying "Obama is a warmonger", "Obama is a fraud", and "Obama is corrupt". Do you know which post comes up everytime? THIS ONE! And this is the only post that does. No one on DU has said these things, you are trying to create division where there frankly is none. Way to go.

[Baltoman991]

12. Hyperbole?

Read the damn board. Obama is being called a fraud, he's being called corrupt, he's being compared to Bush. It's not hyperbole. It's pure bullshit being stated as fact by some here.

[depakid]

21. When someone says something like that- they sound pathetic. Why enable the nonsense

by getting all bent out shape?

Make no sense to even give it a reaction, much less start a bunch of separate threads.

[Baltoman991]

31. I disagree.

For years our side lost and why? Because we sat around and allowed the lies to be spread. We, the grass roots, finally found our voices in 06 and decided to start fighting back. And in 2009 and beyond when I see someone calling Barack Obama corrupt, a fraud or being compared to Bush I'm going to speak out about it.

It's pure bullshit to just ignore it.

[depakid]

34. Well, if you want to respond back and forth like children on a playground

hollering to high heaven on a message board, be my guest.

But just realize that a lot of folks look at that as lame.

(and counterproductive).

[Baltoman991]

37. Yeah

call me a child, call me lame, call me any name that makes you feel superior.

But while you sit on your ass and allow the lies and smears to continue, I will continue to do the right thing and get the truth out for our party. Perhaps you enjoyed the 12 years the Republicans controlled Congress while our side sat on our asses because we didnt' want to be seen as "children on a playground" arguing back and forth.

[urgk]

141. I agree with you Baltoman.

Democrats tend to agree with whatever crap the opposition starts, and draw their battle lines after the "but." It goes like this -- "Sure, John Kerry is a flip-flopper, but...." and "Sure, Howard Dean shrieked like a madman, but...."

That crap needs to stop. We need to quit giving ground. We should all thoroughly and analytically judge Obama's actions before we allow sweeping generalities or accusations to start the discussion.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

259. No it isnt

I was interested in finding these people who were saying these things, because I hadn't seen it. So I typed in the search box "Obama fraud", "Obama warmonger" and "Obama corrupt", do you know which posts came up? THIS ONE! And this was the only one. The OP is trying to cause trouble and create division where there is none. It is dishonest, and I am not sure why the OP felt the need to do that. Frankly it is a little sad that people are seeing fit to cause division on the board.

[Cha]

13. Yeah, Enough directed

at President Obama.

[rucky]

122. +1

[TZ]

243. I saw a post that called Obama a war criminal basically today

Thats pretty hyperbolic right there don't you think?

[Cha]

9. Rec'd~ It really against the rules..

"4. Content: Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements. The moderators and administrators work very hard to enforce some minimal standards regarding what content is appropriate. But please remember that this is a large and diverse community that includes a broad range of opinion. People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[Skwmom]

119. Hmm.... did you read the original post?

[Cha]

266. Hmmmm

yes.

[sharp_stick]

15. No shit

I'm tired to trying to get people to read and understand the fucking reports before they go off on some ill conceived and patently stupid rant like they actually know anything. I think it's time for a bit of a break.

Back when I don't feel like strangling people.

[TheKentuckian]

18. I mostly write it off as temper tantrums

Some folks think what is best, what is workable, what is desirable, what is possible, and what should be are all the same thing.

[cali]

20. That stuff belongs on freeperville, or trotsky underground

[Sheepshank]

47. I was thinking the same thing

why not go to freeperville, tell them that an ex-DU'er has crossed over, get a good rant out of the way with a group that will appreciate the rant. It'll give the freepers a hard on they'll not soon forget, and get those freeping hyenas a reason to lick their collective butts.

[geek tragedy]

19. Leftwing Limbaughs.

They have issues with authority figures, and will attack whoever actually accomplishes things as opposed to giving big speeches.

They're losers, and that's why they only like politicians who lose.

[Cha]

27. That's an

interesting theory.

[get the red out]

125. Like conspiracy theorists

Alex Jones comes to mind, whoever is in office, he has a conspiracy theory to back up their being evil incarnate.

[Double T]

22. The Ultimate Authority, BO, should be questioned again and again throughout his Presidency.

If an individual says they agree with BO on every single position he takes on every single issue, I would call that supporter a fraud. Questioning and challenging the Ultimate Authority does NOT destroy him; it should make him think twice and be better.

[TTUBatfan2008]

24. Ulimate Authority?

I think the CIA, MIC, and bankers are more powerful than the POTUS. Just my 2 cents though. Perhaps we should ask JFK.

[Double T]

46. You've got a wicked point.

No wonder 'We the People' aren't getting anywhere. As we know, JFK should have been looking over his shoulder and he should have taken Eisenhower's advice. The bushes are probably still running the country.

[cali]

30. absolutely. But calling him corrupt, a liar, a warmonger, a tool of

the corporations, etc, etc, etc- and those are all quotes- that's NOT criticism. It's the basest kind of sliming. Do learn to discern what is and isn't criticism of policy and what's just the ugliest kind of personal attacks. that's just freeper hate crap. And those engaging in it, can stuff it back up their....

[Political Heretic]

68. tool of corporations might be fair, and liar might be fair if it was put in context.

For example, someone might say, "I think Obama lied when he said x, because here is y." That assertion when followed by an explanation is not necessarily unfair.

If someone just says "OBama is a liar" in the middle of a string of factless insults, then that is childish and needlessly inflammatory.

Tool of the corporation, or doing the business of corporate interests or some other phrase - is a criticism some might consider harsh, and many might disagree with - but it can certainly be stated with a clear supporting opinion as to why one thinks that. It's not baseless. A lot of people feel like policies are currently making corporations the top priority and viewing ordinary working Americans as secondary beneficiaries of pro-corporate policy.

Now, I get that tons of people disagree with that AND they might be right! But that's fair game as far as discussion goes, and the people that feel that way by and large are quite capable of making rational arguments. For the most part they're not just throwing around insults without a careful explanation of why they think what they think.

Those who are just hurling insults with no substance and no justification - yeah, they suck.

[mkultra]

76. yes, a ton disagree with you

those of us that work a job to make a living depend on these corporations for jobs. Those corps depend on the banking system to stay afloat. Guys like you who want obama to let GM fail really just want those one million people to be on the street. Im guessing your independently wealthy. Your ideology stinks of it.

[Political Heretic]

103. Guys like me who want Obama to let GM fail? I don't want Obama to let GM fail.

You must be thinking of someone else.

My ideology?

Please define what you think my ideology is for me, because so far you doing a bang-up job of being wrong.

Your guess as to me being independently wealthy? Try bankrupt in 2007, lost my home in 2008, now live with my best friend and his cousin in their house, I own my car and that's the only asset of value I have to my name. I work graveyard shifts on the weekends to get buy until I can find a career job (not too many people hiring macro social workers in my state right now) and working for free at the child welfare center during weekdays...

So piss off.

[HughMoran]

42. Couple of points:

1. I think there are only 2 people on this site that don't think Obama should be criticized at all - so that "fraud" argument is a red herring.
2. If taken to the extreme, challenging his authority from the right and the left could easily destroy him. Fortunately, the real hardcore critics on the left exist mostly on sites like this and some more fringe sites. If all on the left were as hardcore as the few here, he'd be completely destroyed as he'd have no support for anything.

[Moochy]

50. "the real hardcore critics on the left exist mostly on sites like this"

:rofl:

Really?

[Double T]

59. I think your estimate of '2' is extremely low.

And to prove my point I believe I am close to or hold the coveted record for being placed on 'Ignore'. BO gets most of his support from the left, right and middle of center.

[redqueen]

139. Could you please PM me links

to where people are saying that he shouldn't be criticized at all?

I keep reading this claim but no one has ever backed it up.

[bigjohn16]

25. Here is my honest criticism.

His decision to not prosecute tortures is going to really hurt America in the future. By not allowing CIA agents who tortured people to be prosecuted he is effectively saying that the "I was just following orders" defense is a viable one. That as long as you can get someone to agree that your actions are legal you can do just about anything. I will never take anything anyone says on "faith" if I think a President is making a mistake, even if I voted for them I will call them out.

[cali]

33. I don't like that decision and your criticism is a perfectly reasonable one

that's clearly not what I'm talking about in the OP.

[Celebration]

26. But this is true

He is an incrementalist. Some things are so off that this approach may not be the best for every issue. That is why some of us have issues about *some* of his approaches.

He can withstand the criticism, believe me. He is strong.

So, whoop up, everyone!

[cali]

35. one more time: the shit I noted in the OP, is NOT criticism. It's sliming.

And this isn't about whether he can withstand the criticism, it's about that shit not being acceptable here.

[Celebration]

56. LOL

I think you are bit too sensitive. Obama is not. Bring it on!

[Moochy]

32. And Lo it came to pass..

That Obama was almost destroyed by the epic flurry of calumny!! If not for the bracing, corrective posts of one brave DU'er! :patriot:

[cali]

36. hardly the point.

but whatever.

[Phx_Dem]

38. Agreed. Looks like the wingnuts infiltrating DU have returned from their teabaggin party.

[nomaco-10]

40. Am I the only one who had to ....

gooogle "culumny"?

I luv you cali darlin', but you make it hard sometimes.

[cali]

44. sorry. I grew up with people with large antiquated vocabularies.

it rubbed off at an early age.

[Kaleva]

41. Somebody should have told me that before Nov. 4th!!!!

[LittleBlue]

48. Most critics are making specific criticisms. Please direct yours

to those of whom you refer, and not to the forum at large.

It's lame.

[cali]

54. it wasn't directed to the forum at large. It was clearly directed toward

people saying specific things. That couldn't have been clearer. Please try reading for comprehension. Not doing so, as you did, is lame. Thanks.

[LittleBlue]

85. Then go say it to them. Why rant in the abstract?

You haven't even named anyone or any specific instances in your OP.

IE this thread = full of shit.

[cali]

96. get a clue, dear. it's against DU rules to call people out by name, petite bleu

And those are quotes. That's pretty fucking specific, genius.

[LittleBlue]

112. What? I said do it within the threads of the people you speak of

Again, you're full of it. Rant at them within those threads, not the forum at large.

You set up a straw man and successfully beat it down. Whoop-de-fuck!

[JTFrog]

123. Why?

When you rant at them in those threads the rants end up getting deleted and the idiots remain unchecked. If DU rules were still enforced as they were two years ago, this place would have gotten an enema months ago and threads like this wouldn't feel necessary.

[yowzayowzayowza]

49. Present. n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

53. it isn't addressing the issue- it's more like character assassination

I'm sick of this kind of ...politicking.

we don't seem to learn.

Thanks for this Thread.

[Cha]

58. Precisely, Bluerthanblue..and they know

it, too..they just try to get away with as much as possible without getting TS but that doesn't always workout so well.

[tandot]

55. A big f*cking K & R. Thanks, Cali!!!

[asdjrocky]

61. I would never call President Obama any of those things.

I will say I don't agree with him. I will say on this issue I believe he's made a mistake. I've never been into total obedience, it rubs me the wrong way.

[cali]

66. Clearly I'm not advocating blind faith or support. I disgree with Obama

on some issues. I've criticized him. that's not what I was talking about.

[asdjrocky]

69. I hear you.

And on about 99% I agree with him. On the issue I think we're both talking about I'm in total disagreement. That being said, I respect that man too much to call him names.

And for the record, anyone here who can't make a point without name calling will feel right at home in freeperland.

[jeanpalmer]

62. Ob boy, someone really has her panties

in a knot. "...the Pakistani government leaked data last week to The News in Lahore showing that only 10 drone attacks out of 60 carried out from Jan. 29, 2009 to Apr. 8, 2009 actually hit al Qaeda leaders, while 50 other strikes were based on faulty intelligence and killed a total of 537 civilians but no al Qaeda leaders." http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46511 Seems to me someone willing to kill innocent people on that scale, for nothing, is not only a warmonger but a war criminal. Can't have a conscience. And he doesn't. If he dropped bombs on 500 innocent people in the USA you wouldn't be shilling for him. Or would you?

I think he is showing he is a fraud. A fast-talking con man. Doesn't seem to get upset about torture or spying or war or anything really. It's all clinical to him. Doesn't seem upset at all about the crimes Wall Street committed, no interest in upholding the law. Doesn't show any moral outrage. I thought it was interesting before the news conference up on stage today they all were smiling . This didn't mean anything to them.

[Cha]

63. The OP is talking about shit posts like

your's with your freak show panties in a knot.

[jeanpalmer]

71. He's taking good Democrats for granted

Throwing Democratic principles overboard to capture the middle and the right wing. Taking good Democrats for granted is a big mistake. I won't blindly give my loyalty to anyone. I won't compromise my principles to become a trash talking kool-aid drinking sycophant, like the OP. Or a would-be schoolyard bully like yourself. That doesn't impress me at all. He has to earn my support, and so far he doesn't seem interested in doing that. Which is ok by me.

[ima_sinnic]

77. yes. though you're wasting your time here. it seems that no matter how

little interest he shows in actually upholding the law and defending the Constitution, it all gets a pass. No matter what, it's all okay, didn't you know? It's only not okay when a republican does it. A "constitutional scholar" must know when it's okay to be "unconstitutional," I guess.

Next time the republican war crmiinals come back, they will be no holds barred. They know they can get away with anything now. god help us all, then. Thanks a lot, Barack.

[Cha]

178. Wah, Wah,

Wah.

[Baltoman991]

65. Ah yes

another of the "he's a fraud" crowd who thinks they know it all. Oh well, your post is a perfect example of what the OP was talking about.

I'm quite sure in 2012 you'll be in the polls touching the screen for Palin/Jindal. Enjoy your vote.

[jeanpalmer]

70. Well I know this

whoever I vote for won't be using drones to bomb innocent people. Won't be expanding criminal wars. Will stand up against spying, torure and will actually uphold the law. Won't run us into debt or give our money to crooks. I don't think that's too much to expect. It's the bare minimum imo. You might call it a litmus test. So yes, he's got 3 years 9 months to shape up.

[TheKentuckian]

73. Im sorry you didn't get your progressive decider

and that none is on the horizon.

[jeanpalmer]

80. Not a progressive decider

just someone interested in upholding the law, not making war on innocent people, not funneling government money to crooks. I would think you would want that also, if you're a Democrat.

[ima_sinnic]

74. he's supposed to be a "constitutional scholar," but he's still wiretapping without warrants

and actually APPEALING the judgment that those kidnapped and held at Guantanamo have a right to sue to be charged with something (after declaring on Day 1, as well as 3 years ago, that habeas corpus is a core and uncompromisable principle of law and that we are "a nation of laws"). He's retained the worst constitutional abuses of the bush administration and seems to have no "crisis of conscience" over that. So claiming to be a "constitutional scholar" while abusing the Constitution is called what? when bush did it, it was evil, but when Obama does it, well, we must be stoned for even mentioning it, I guess. It is the DUTY of the President to uphold the Constitution. If he didn't want to assume that DUTY, he should not have run for president.

and, yes, kowtowing to torturers as well as to vested corporate interests is a bit corrupt I would say.

[jeanpalmer]

82. He's doing it because he thinks he

thinks he can get away with it. That the sycophants won't hold him to a Democratic standard. And from the looks of it, he has made the accurate calculation.

[Baltoman991]

89. Geez

you're sitting here pissing and moaning because Obama won't kiss your progressive ass and give you the candy store.

Meanwhile in the real world, the majority of Americans are still behind him. So I guess you're calling the majority sycophants while you sit here and rant and ramble on with nothing but utter bullshit.

[cali]

98. my, my. look at you. you're a little mind reader.

isn't that cute- in a simple minded way.

[cali]

75. this is exactly the type of dog shit I'm t alking about

and you know, sweetie, what really gets my panties in a twist, is the loathsome marriage of rank stupidity and arrogance that you display so impeccably in your post.

War criminal? fuck that's major stupid, honey- though not quite as piss stupid as the comment about Obama smiling in a public appearance.

[jeanpalmer]

84. Look, trash talking doesn't impress me

You have to say something coherent or it's hard to respond. If you would spend as much time thinking about what Obama is doing instead of how to insult principled Democrats who have legitimate concerns, you might be able to post something worthwhile and readable. This place is becoming a hangout for a bunch of intolerant cult of personality types like you, and it's a shame. You need to develop a change in attitude.

[Baltoman991]

95. You're kidding

right? You consider yourself a "principled Democrat"? All you've done is spew bullshit calling Obama a fraud, corrupt and another Bush. Nothing principled about that at all. Perhaps it is you who should say something coherent so others would find it easy to respond.

[cali]

99. bwahaha. I actually think- critically. That entails finding out as much as

I can about discreet issues. I criticize on specifics. And sorry, dearie, I'm certainly not a sychophant. As for writing coherently, I do that rather well. Sorry if I use words and sentence structure that make your little head ache.

[jeanpalmer]

111. You didn't discuss anything

You engaged in an insulting rant that was designed to intimidate people and discourage discussion. And you tried to incite like-thinking would-be enforcers to come on here and do the same thing, which they did in droves.

If you really want to have a discussion, start a thread that doesn't insult people. And that doesn't encourage the rif-raf to join in the attack. But if you insist on this approach, don't be surprised when people reply in kind. I don't like that approach myself, but I can take it, and I can dish it out. And can have fun either way.

[No More Bushbots]

155. Wow. Just Wow.

[mkultra]

296. nobody here cares to impress you

if your too stupid to comprehend the written language, then the burden is yours.

[davidpdx]

79. Enjoy your pizza

I hope it's served up cold and quick.

[HughMoran]

86. I hope you did your part to help with the fast service

I know I did.

[davidpdx]

102. You know I did my friend

You know I did..... :evilgrin:

[HughMoran]

105. Heh - I'm still waiting for my delivery

I got peperoni on mine - you?

[jeanpalmer]

108. You guys would make great pizza delivery boys

although it's probably above your pay grade.

[HughMoran]

87. "(Obama is) not only a warmonger but a war criminal"

Nice!

[HughMoran]

88. "(Obama) is a fraud. A fast-talking con man."

Sweet!

[muryan]

100. The man never ran against war or spying

He did say that we need to exam programs that illegally spy on american citizens, the wheels are turning there. He did say we no longer torture and is backing it up by closing gitmo as well as publishing the CIA tactics so that they stop.

The problem with many people on this website is they chose not to listen to the mans words during the campaign, they only heard what they wanted to hear. He constantly talked about pursuing terrorists into pakistan(something Bush started after Obama suggested it) and he also talked about increasing forces in Afghanistan. By the 'moral outrage' by some here based on this decisions, you would think he promised to imprison all military personnel and close every foreign base.

[jeanpalmer]

113. I'll differ on that

He clearly ran against the Iraq war. Part way through the campaign, he did change his position on Iraq by saying he would withdraw combat soldiers but leave non-combats behind. That almost caused me not to vote for him in the primary, because he had gained a lot of his support, including mine, for what seemed like full opposition to the war. Leaving non-combat troops behind is not ending the war imo. And I'm curious as to what is going to happen 19 months from now when all combat troops are suppoosed to be out. I hope he stands by his commitment.

As for Afghanistan, he's making a huge mistake there -- getting us in deeper where there really is no solution except to leave. He's not going to change those people. The more he attacks, the more they will resist. Killing innocent people with drones -- there's no excuse for that. I thought his conscience might cause him not to do that. But it hasn't. And that's a real disappointment.

When W ran in 2000, he made the statement in one of the debates that he might have to take out Saddam Hussein. I heard him say that, I didn't know at the time what he had planned, but just because he said it didn't mean I had to agree with him. Samewith Obama. So what if he made statements about getting more involved in Afghanistan.

I don't see any reason to support the war in Afghanistan when Bush ran it and I won't support it because Obama has taken over. It's amazing to see all the criticism that was aimed at Bush has dried up. I don't believe in a double standard. Those wars are wrong, period. And I won't support anyone running them.

[muryan]

181. Many of us were vocal about Iraq but supported Afghanistan

The distinction was never that visible though, considering Iraq dominated the debate. I still support efforts in Afghanistan with the caveat that the solution is not military, something understood by this administration.

Otherwise I think we're in agreement.

[mkultra]

298. Its this kind of dense thinking that makes me think your a disruptor

Non-combat troops do not equal war. Your opinion on this does not change the reality that war is conflict and non-combat personnel are not conflict based. He said many times that he would pull us out as quickly as possible considering the safety of our troops and of the iraqi people.

In case you haven't heard, the organizer of the 911 attack was a guy name Osama bin Laden(some here probably disagree with this but hey). His org was tolerated by the Taliban who where too afraid to remove him and his friends. These people still live in the border region of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Killing these people will be highly effective in slowing ME aggression against us and allow us to begin rebuilding relations.

The problem with our image in the ME isn't related to the way we respond to real threats but rather the way we are in everyone's business and the way we kill innocents. These people are our business and they are not innocents.

On edit: i would remind you that Obama ran on the promise of finding and killing Bin laden. He made no bones about it. Which candidate is your preferred?

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[closeupready]

240. Former Democratic Senator Fritz Hollings said the exact same thing.

Let me find the quote and cite.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

286. Way to go

You smashed my arguement to bits with this inane post. I was saying earlier I haven't seen anyone on DU call Obama a war monger or a fraud but you managed to sneak them both in one post. Thanks a lot, Free Republic is that way, I hope you enjoy it.

[Political Heretic]

64. I support reasoned criticsm from all sides and agree that unnuanced statements are counterproductive

Super emotionally charged rhetoric isn't helpful either. So "warmonger" is probably not the best way to foster real discussion about Obama's policies in the middle east. "Fraud" probably not the best way to promote a real exchange of ideas about issues where one feels Obama has perhaps contradicted campaign promises or rhetoric (or whatever).

It goes without saying that this goes both ways cali.... and you've done more than your fair share of insulting and baiting, by my count.

[mkultra]

78. and youve done more than your share of bashing

The OP is about BASHING , not about discussion or criticism. Lets not confuse the point to much.

[Political Heretic]

104. No. I haven't. Put up proof of bashing.

Good luck.

[Political Heretic]

190. Hey, still waiting.....

....

[mkultra]

261. oh, sorry, i didnt realize you where serious

what your asking me to do is against board rules. Thanks for being a douche. I have nothing to prove to you. You know what you do and so do i.

[cali]

94. only when I encounter the crap I referred to in the OP

that's it. But I'm glad to see you think that calling Obama a warmonger is "probably not the best way to hold a discussion"- though I think that the conditional you inserted is rather odd.

[Political Heretic]

106. the conditional is sarcastic.

Of course its not a good way to have a discussion. It's needlessly inflammatory.

[havocmom]

81. Seeing only black and white is so much easier that considering nuances of gray

They want instant gratification, instant karma, instant fixes for problems that cannot be instantly fixed. They are wailing infants and their colicy tantrums are getting damned annoying.

[No More Bushbots]

160. Its the Veruca Salt Theory of Politics

I want it all and I want it now!

[mkultra]

299. down the trash chute.

[Hellataz]

97. This is the crap i mentioned before, not constructive criticism, but outright bashing.

I'm sick of seeing it here.

[leftstreet]

101. Why is there even an OP title like this on DU?

:shrug:

It makes DU look stupid

[mmonk]

107. Hyperbole aside and straw dogs fed,

he did sign the following pledge:

“We are Americans, and in our America we do not torture, we do not imprison people without charge or legal remedy, we do not tap people’s phones and emails without a court order, and above all we do not give any President unchecked power.

"I pledge to fight to protect and defend the Constitution from assault by any President."



So far he has defended the President and executive branch that led a systematic assault on the Constitution in contradiction.

[cali]

117. simplistic nonsense to claim he's defended bush.

that claim is hyperbole.

[mmonk]

120. By preventing legal repercussions for breaches of law,

my statement is true. It's just a simple reality. Not simplistic nonsense.

[cliffordu]

110. I'm with you, kid. K%R

[Jersey Noir]

114. Expecting too much too soon

I think too many people are expecting Obama to erase the last hellish 8 years overnight. So when it takes time, out comes the false criticisms, corrupt, warmonger, fraud, blah, blah, blah. Please, give the brother a little time, he has a lot on his plate.

[redqueen]

142. Well hi there Jersey Noir...

welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Skidmore]

116. Agree. We spent nearly a decade with the "unitary executive" folks and now

I think some part of what is going on is that Obama has stepped it back to force the other branches of government to do their jobs. Recall that the Congress just handed the whole shop to * and walked away from their responsibilities. I think that, if we want some measure of justice for war crimes, we need to push Congress to do the investigations first and turn up the evidence. They are no longer used to assuming responsibility. That crap Leahy came out with about only being able to do something if Republicans agree was cowardly.

[HamdenRice]

118. Preach Sister! And what's worse when you point out their bashing is content free....

they accuse you of stifling dissent -- as though incoherent, fact free rage is reasoned "dissent."

[Teaser]

121. Obama's real name is Hitler Cyanide McCancer

didn't you know?

[HamdenRice]

127. Uh...

"Obama's real name is Hitler Cyanide McCancer"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

OK, I can log off now, I've had my belly laugh for the morning!

[get the red out]

124. The best words I have seen in a long time

Thank you for being a real Democrat. There are too many people living in some fantasy world where they believe that if they don't get everything they want from Obama in a matter of months then he has failed and we need to just show him by doing whatever damage to him and the Democratic party possible so a Republican can be elected next time.

I think a lot of people are incapable of compromise, incapable of accepting that Democrats are in power and have the responsibility of governing this vast, diverse country of ours. They can't accept these things and are far more comfortable with Republicans in power so they can rant all day about how far gone we are and never have to compromise their "ideals" because the bad guys are in charge. There are some liberals incapable of accepting compromise and would rather see this country go straight to hell under the republicans than deal with REAL LIFE and not getting your way all the time under Democrats. This is supreme immaturity. These people can ruin us as surely as the republicans they tacitly support through their actions.

The attitude I described does not include legitimate criticism, just the people with the utterly defeatist attitude I keep seeing that just want to run Obama down. I am sure they were ready to be defeated the minute he took the oath of office. Without Bush to despise what do you do? Well you do what you can to get another Bush in office so you have no more responsibility than to be the saintly opposition, so much easier than swallowing your pride now and then.

[JMDEM]

126. Yea -- get the point, detractors

IF our guy does it, it is okay, no matter what it is! Get it? If not, fall in line or get the F* out, and be prepared, in a few years, to face unpleasant consequences.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lame54]

129. I want Obama to succeed- but is it o.k. to disagree with him?...

Because he has done several disagreeable things

[cali]

130. I don't see how my OP could possibly have been clearer

I spelled out- by using DUer quotes- what I find so objectionable and infuriating. Here's a clue: It's not criticism that bothers me. What I quoted isn't criticism. It's the politics of hate, rank stupidity, freeper style bullshit and destruction. Criticism of any kind, as long as it's based even loosely in reality, is just fine with me.

[lame54]

138. yes - but we - the criticizing-supporters always get lumped in with them...

so, yes you could have been clearer

[urgk]

143. Cali clearly made a distinction.

In reading his/her OP, I wholly understand the distinction between those who disagree based on logical argument and analysis of the facts and those who run around yelling things that they've yet to fully understand.

[redqueen]

144. Who lumps honest criticsim in

with shit like that which was so very clearly stated in the OP?

Please PM me an example. I'm very curious.

Thanks.

[lame54]

146. rants like this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8336257

[redqueen]

150. That is pointless hyperbole, and nothing at all like this OP. (nt)

[lame54]

152. ok

[No More Bushbots]

132. They are either Freepers or Paulistas trying to disrupt progress

They can't stand the fact that Obama enjoys over 60% support of his actions.

[Yukari Yakumo]

134. Unlikely

They usually expose themselves pretty quickly and get the boot just as fast.

What we're looking at are more likely to be the absolute die-hard Kucinichites and the last remnants of Hillary's followers. In other words, uncompromising ideological purists and those who think they have an axe to grind with the Obama administration.

[Moochy]

151. Yeah those kucinichites are hard to stamp out!

The only solution is for us to recruit more of Evan Bayists! They have more money for donor stars anyways!!!!

[SoxFan]

133. And he has smelly teeth!

He's a big bird-turd and a doodoo head!

Preach it, Cali. :fistbump:

[barbtries]

135. i'm with you Cali

[redqueen]

136. That kind of crap is not criticism and it should be deleted and if it doesn't stop...

tombstone.

What makes me sick is all the people pretending that it's actual criticism that others are bothered by.

:banghead:

[cali]

148. yep, the dishonest crap about how such sliming is honest criticism

is utterly contemptible.

[defendandprotect]

140. Obama's decision is outrageous --

and failure to see the need for torture, failure to want to hold those responsible for
it is what will bring us more of the same.

If you can't handle truthful criticism and debate why are you on a message board at all?

Let's just remind ourselves that Obama is failing to stand by Geneva Accord principles
which we are party to.

And Obama is failing to stand behind the rejection of "just follow orders" made clear by
the United States at Nuremberg trials.

It is clear all that the Geneva Accord and Nuremberg decisions should be upheld --
that our soldiers should be taught respect for these laws/rules. And that should begin
with our president.

Compliments to Obama, however, for releasing the memos!

As for those who say Obama doesn't have power, I could agree, as long as he tells us who
it is who is actually president and who has the power!

[redqueen]

145. "If you can't handle truthful criticism and debate..."

Read the OP again... that is so very clearly not the problem.

[defendandprotect]

282. The OP is another cry for stopping criticism of Obama ---

and fat chance, because these things are not simply DU reacting negatively to them---

world opinion will be against torture and much of US opinion and legal opinion is,

of course, the opposed to the decisions that Obama has made here.

Additionally, in the course of history, America's political violence has been ignored for

almost 45+ years now and all it has brought us is more of the same.

And this brutal period of Bush/Cheney rule which has given us new spying under FISA rules

SEVEN MONTHS BEFORE 9/11 and TORTURE . . . will, unless sufficiently and strongly responded

to by legal means, will bring us only more of the same!

[cali]

147. What you just expressed is criticism- well except for the stupid strawman

you conjured up: "If you can't handle truthful criticism and debate why are you on a message board at all?" I couldn't possibly have been clearer in making the distinction between criticism and two minute hate. Expressing how you feel, as you just did, about a specific policy or issue, is criticism, dear. Calling him a fraud, war criminal, etc, etc, is simply hate speech or freeper speech, if you will.

And no, nothing about this is clear to all, there are many varying expert opinins. duh.

Now do stop humping on the strawman about how I can't handle criticism and want to shut cown debate- or at least do it in private. It's pathetic to witness.

Cheers

[Taverner]

173. So you would rather have a martyr than someone on our side?

I'm sick of martyrs personally

[elocs]

154. When I saw the headline I thought, "and that's just DU".

With friends like these, Obama doesn't need enemies. With some things are never right enough unless they are going exactly the way they believe things should go. Obama needs to understand that there is one group he will never please enough--Democrats.

[Union Yes]

170. Then join the military and volunteer for Afghan deployment.

When you yourself set foot in a combat zone, we'll see where your loyalties lie.

[cali]

174. gad, that may be in the running for stupidest and most inane post

on this thread. And you've got plenty of competition.

[TwilightZone]

171. Agreed.

People like that have always been on DU; they're just a lot more vocal lately.

A few of them run around and shit on any positive thread about Obama, spouting their knee-jerk idiocy and defending it as "dissent", then declare themselves oppressed by those calling them out.

I am simply amazed that some of them are still around. In fairness to the mods, however, there is so much garbage being thrown about that I can understand how it's impossible to deal with all of it.

Your rant is spot on.

[Taverner]

172. But I was promised a pony!

Where's my pony????

Seriously - you're spot on, and I had to look up calumny

[cali]

175. your pony, Cal, is back ordered.

[bamacrat]

176. Yeah, I dont get it how it was unamerican to criticize Bush but its American to oppose Obama.

Bush started two wars spent us into bankruptcy and dumbed the American public down to dangerous levels. Obama has to fix that, he done nothing that could be considered as warmongering or corrupt. Pukes cant handle being the minority even though they always were, a party that runs on fear will eventually scare away supporters. But to them what is more scary than a black man with power.

[sam kane]

177. Torture is illegal even if your Mommy or Santa told you it wasn't.

It is illegal all over the world, ignorance is not an excuse.

[cali]

202. are you reading challenged, sweetie?

Can you follow the bouncing ball? The OP isn't about torture, genius. Pathetic.

[Union Yes]

179. Warring Dems fall on their own swords....LBJ

Don't forget, Anti War people vote too.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

184. Where are these posts?

Calling Obama a warmonger, a fraud and corrupt. I haven't seen them and would like to see some evidence.

[redqueen]

187. Linking is against the rules

They're quotes... search.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

217. No

And until I see Obama being accused of being a fraud I don't believe it is happening, if it is that is unfortunate but I haven't seen that kind of rhetoric. I have seen people unhappy with some of Obama's policies not accusing him of being a warmonger and a fraud.

[redqueen]

224. You must not spend much time here. (nt)

[spiritual_gunfighter]

242. I am here everyday

and I have yet to see someone say Barack Obama is a warmonger and a fraud. I have seen people unhappy with his policies and his reversal of certain campaign promises. But those who march lockstep with Obama are quick to use hyperbole to support their weak arguments.

[redqueen]

244. So...

are you refusing to look so that you can just go on telling yourself that it's not really happening? So you can pretend that those of us who are fed up with the BS around here are really talking about honest criticism and not that "FUCK OBAMA" crap?

Actually, I don't really care... knock yourself out. :hi:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

247. I am not refusing to look at all

I am just not seeing the things you are supposedly seeing. When I see a post that says "Obama is a warmonger" then I will agree that the negative rhetoric about Obama has gone too far. I have noticed that the "march in lockstep" brigade uses this argument that "oh no people are against my president, he can do no wrong" in order to show how crazy it might be that people disagree with some of his policies. Like I said in a previous post about this. I donated to his campaign when I was unemployed and frankly didn't have that much money to begin with. I worked at his campaign offices in my city, I went door to door registering people to vote. I had doors slammed on me, I was called unamerican (I live in a very republican county) I was called a traitor, you name it. I did this because I felt Obama was a great candidate and I believed he would bring change to Washington. I still believe it, it's only been three months. But I am very unhappy with some of his policies already, I refuse to march lockstep with him just because he is a Democrat, sorry. I am noticing a lot more often that there are people on DU that are claiming that there are people that call Obama all kinds of horrible names and think he has betrayed us than I am actually seeing that it is actually happening. Sure you can call me blind or you can say I am anti-Obama but then you are just further giving evidence that this is actually the case. So "knock yourself out".

[redqueen]

248. tl/dr

I said "search", you said "no".

[spiritual_gunfighter]

253. I have been searching

I did find a post that said "Obama should be impeached", but it was a joke, kinda like this discussion.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

255. Okay

I have searched "Obama is a warmonger", "Obama is a fraud", and "Obama is corrupt" and you know what thread keeps coming up? THIS ONE!! and that is the only one. The OP is dishonest, and this line of thinking that "people are calling Obama all kinds of names" is dishonest. I know you will continue to defend the OP but please search for yourself and let me know when you find something.

[Jeep789]

188. Well said! nt

[katandmoon]

191. Why don't you address this to whichever individual posted that? I am so fucking tired of these

board-wide call-outs!

I wish I could UN-K&R this post.

[cali]

204. Oh, I did and I have and I will.

but really, these nasty little critters deserve to be called on their lying ass bullshit. Sorry it makes you unhappy. hey, go check the greatest page. The OP is third from the top. Who knows? Before it's time is up, it may even hit the top. Enjoy that.

[SkyDaddy7]

194. I was pounced on for expressing the same aggrivation...

However, I understand now...I have learned over the course of my short time here that one is not respected on DU unless you have (+1000 post)...I have seen several references to this on post as I surf around. So, I will continue to try an earn everyone's respect as I build my post #s to +1000.

[conscious evolution]

195. He's starting to look

more and more like the 'good cop' to me.

[SlingBlade]

196. Amen Sister, This, Is legitimate criticism, And those you

speak of are fucking assholes.

That's MY legitimate criticism !

[iamthebandfanman]

197. Cry me a river.

nobody wants to 'destroy' president obama.

i literally just tasted a lil vomit in the back of my mouth after reading your post.

[cali]

200. enjoy that vomit, honey.

glad that was your response. Oh, and you are wrong. there are people here (and no longer here) who've let their little masks slip, and actually admitted it.

[SlingBlade]

209. Bullshit

[NJmaverick]

198. BRAVO!

:toast:

[LiberalFighter]

199. We should hold Obama to the fire BUT we should also give him appropriate time to perform.

I say we should give him at least until September 12th 2009. If he hasn't screwed up by then it should then be consider that he did a better job than Bush. Of course, Obama has already done a better job than Bush in many areas. Some that the general public and even DUers are not fully aware.

Consider the Bush Executive Orders that he has struck down or the ones he has created.

Consider the appointments he has made. Yes, there may be some questionable but weren't all of Bush's appointment obscene?

Consider the judicial vacancies that he will be filling. They are starting to happen and he has many more to do before his first term is up.

Consider the respect we are receiving from other countries.

Consider the fact that there will be priorities and he needs to work on those that are needed now.

[ItNerd4life]

203. Calumny? You many not want to use such obscure words

you will lose the people who are are trying to make a point too. :)

You are so correct in your rant. I can't believe how much racism, hatred, and closed mindedness I've seen on DU.

[omega minimo]

205. The only times on DU I'm seeing that is on OPs like this one (and you've had several)

Quit focusing on what you don't want to see. Please.

[cali]

206. sorry, this is the second OP I've written that touched on this

my first was far less blunt. And many people have noticed the crap I drew attention to. Don't like it? Don't click on my threads. Simple, huh?

[omega minimo]

207. Don't like it? Don't stick it in our eyeballs on the title or home page.

Okay it's the second OP but the rant and fixation and accusation isn't new (for you). I know b/c I have considered what I've read other people complaining about and commented that I (and others who comment) are not seeing examples of Obama hatred.

I've commented that most of it appears to be misunderstandings and the worst instigators (not referring to your OPs) appear to be trolls trying to stir it up.

[cali]

210. sorry, anyone not biased or blind can see the crap I referred to

including the admins. This is just about trolls or misunderstanding.

[omega minimo]

214. That may be so but it is possible to avoid or miss by focusing on other aspects, even of Obama

I'm sorry, I don't see the point of recreating it, mocking it, inviting more of the same......... I'm sorry this is happening on DU. My comment was b/c this hostile sort of response seems to validate or drive the wedge deeper. Sorry, cali.

[SlingBlade]

211. Yes, Stop It ! They will let you know what kind of

legitimate criticism is allowed

Stupid Obama Bashing Morans

[omega minimo]

215. As I was saying.......................

:eyes:

[LynneSin]

212. Man I was ready to pick a fight with you....

then I read your post - great post.

[earth mom]

216. You've got your pitchforks out for the wrong people.

Our elected officials are NOT working for us. They are working for corporate America.

The majority of the people are getting the shaft.

When Obama, his administration and Congress blatantly proves this fact, you can not expect people to sit around and cheer any of them for it.

No fucking way.

Get real and stop pretending this isn't the truth.

Denial is for chumps. :eyes:

[cali]

218. lol. my elected officials ARE working for me. My VT reps

are doing an excellent job. They just passed marriage equality and overrode the gov's veto- and that's just one issue. Bernie Sanders, Pat Leahy and Peter Welch are categorically not working for the corporate fatcats. And Obama, though he's certainly done some things I don't agree with, has also made some big- and good changes. It'll take more time to see what kind of president he'll be.

Only fucking asshole morons can't recognize the difference between criticism and mindless hate bashing. And I know what you are.

[earth mom]

219. No, you don't have a clue who I am, but you love to make broad brush smears

against anyone who doesn't march in lock step with you.

You think ALL criticism is hate bashing. Which means no criticism is allowed at all.

Might as well be living in a dictatorship if that's the case. :puke:


Let me spell it out for you and make myself crystal clear:

All I want is for Obama to do the right thing. I don't think it's so complex that it can't be done if he really wants to do it.

It doesn't stop Kucinich or Gore or Dean or your VT reps, does it?

FYI-I would be one of Obama's loudest and biggest supporters if he lived up to his potential.

But he has not.

And even you can't deny that.

[omega minimo]

221. "broad brush smears against anyone who doesn't march in lock step"

one reason I may not be seeing what is rumored to be the worst Obama bashing is due to staying out of GD: P where that TOPIC seems to be a major pastime, driving the wedge in deeper................ :shrug:

[earth mom]

225. I stay out of GD-P for the most part; the unreality of the place is too much for me. nt

[cali]

223. bzzzt. no, I really don't. I suggest you bestir yourself and do a search

you'll find threads I've started criticizing Obama. But that wouldn't fit in your narrow little conception of who I am. It'd only serve to confuse your beautiful and set in cement little mind.

As for Obama living up to my expectations, I don't believe he's been in the job long enough for me to know. He's made decisions I agree with and others i don't, but no decision he's made has me moaning and drama queening it up as if it's the end of the world.

[omega minimo]

226. ".......has me moaning and drama queening it up as if it's the end of the world."

Replicating it can unfortunately reinforce it.

And drive well meaning people out of GD: P who don't need the drama and attracting ill willed folks who do...........................

[earth mom]

228. Sounds like you are waking up. Which is why it's unfair of you to squash those of us

who are fully awake and paying attention.

As for drama queening it up, who exactly posted this dramatic OP rant?

You did.


Also, my mind is not set in cement. As I said before I would be the first to cheer Obama for doing the right thing and righting the horrific wrongs of * & Co.

That is ALL I want.

That and some solutions to Global Warming in action.

I thought that was what everyone who voted for Obama wanted.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[cali]

229. oh please. I've never been asleep.

and the only people I'm calling out are those that are saying the crap posted in the OP. It's really very simple: There's criticism and then there's calumny. One is legitimate. the other isn't.

and if you're concerned about the response to climate change by Obama, I hope you're aware of what he did today. Perhaps you could start a thread about it and give us your thoughts on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/science/earth/18endanger.html?ref=earth

[ElboRuum]

254. Hold on a minute...

We all voted for Obama for different reasons. I voted for him, but not for any particular policy, and I would have been foolish to do so if I had, because I understand that governance and politics at that level is one of the most fluid situations that can exist. It isn't as simple as waving your hand and making proclamations and signing executive orders like some elected monarch while you turn a deaf ear to everyone who disagrees with you (which is what you're suggesting he do, become the left's version of Bush).

I voted for him because he is very intelligent, and from what I can see very well-intentioned, and no matter what challenges he faces while in office, I know that he will make decisions in policy that are based upon facts and not ideology. I voted for him because I do not want some self-important ideologue sitting in the big chair. I've had enough of that. I don't want the far left's version of Bush in the White House because I do not want the state of the country being dictated by a singular, unbending, unitary viewpoint, but it is clear that there are a lot of DUers who do want this. It wasn't that the fact that Bush was an authoritarian that bothered them, it was that he wasn't THEIR authoritarian.

You can throw out all of the "issues" because the success of the presidency can be seen in the mind and character of a person long before he/she achieves the office. He's just the intellectual sort I want tackling problems so complex that we, as citizens, aren't even PRIVY to their full extent.

If the "criticizers" on DU understand and accept this, I'd have no quarrel, but as it stands, I've seen more than enough examples where that is not the case.

[Reterr]

270. "We all voted for Obama for different reasons. "

While this is very true, one thing that would be a mistake for him would be to ignore those of us who made up a huge part of the grass-roots effort to actually get him elected with our money, time etc.

And any politician who ignores his base, in his case a very anti-war, lefty and young base, will be in trouble when the next election comes around. It is just ignoring political realities to postulate that he would be better off going after a certain type of moderate who was still deciding between McCain/Palin and Obama in September or October and ignore the hard-working part of his base that worked to the bone to get him elected, well beyond just pulling the lever. I don't how many of those people post here.

People who spend this much time on the internet cannot possibly be doing that much else in their actual lives.

[omega minimo]

220. "Only fucking asshole morons can't recognize difference between criticism & mindless hate bashing"

If that's the case, why not address the criticism and not feed the "fucking asshole morons" :thumbsup:

[Butch350]

227. Here's my...

$ 0.02 worth !!

[Naythan]

230. THIS.

Were people really voting for him thinking they'd have their unicorn and rainbows by tax day? Yeah, he's done some things I don't agree with, but that's because he's not me. I voted for him knowing I wouldn't always agree with him. He inherited a fricking disaster, let him clean up some of the mess first before we bring out the unicorns.

[cali]

233. thanks for the comment, and

welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Evoman]

231. Fair enough....I don't disagree with you BUT I would like to know what it would take before YOU

would call him corrupt, or a warmonger, or a fraud.

What sets of actions would Obama, or his cabinet, have to take for DUers to be able to use those words in truth? Never? Another unjustified war?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, although if you find this off topic, feel free to ignore me. Just thought it was an interesting question.

[cali]

232. that's a fair question. I'll try and answer.

If Obama bombed Iran over this nonsense about Iran developing nuclear capabilities, I'd call him a warmonger. If evidence came to light that like Cheney, he let one industry direct policy, I'd call him corrupt. As for being a fraud, either of the above would be evidence of that.

Hope those examples answer your question.

[Evoman]

241. Yes, thank you.

[Stinky The Clown]

278. As you are entitled to your opinions and breaking points, so are others, don't you think?

[closeupready]

234. But wait! Didn't he ask us to hold him accountable?

http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/archive/barackobama/

>>We must form grass-root structures that would hold me and other elected officials more accountable for their actions.<<

And I'm actually going to put this in my signature.

[cali]

237. um, throwing vague and ugly invective at him is NOT holding him accountable.

Really, is that so difficult to comprehend?

[closeupready]

239. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I guess it really depends upon specific examples.

He has asked Americans to hold him and other elected officials accountable for their actions, and in language which is just about identical to that. So, it's not clear to me exactly what you are objecting to.

"Eff you, Obama" - yes, I also object to that.

"Obama, what about the Geneva Convention do you not understand?" - no, I do not object to that.

[LiberalLovinLug]

236. No need at all for this OP

Purposely provocative title to draw in like-minded reactionists.
If there are any it is a very small minority that have used any of those three inflammatory words you brought up. Talk about a straw man. If your goal is to bully the more progressive members into shutting up about Obama's acquiescence to the Bush administration's unconstitutional behavior, I for one won't fall for it.

I fall in the middle. I think Obama is walking a fine line and trying not to upset the apple cart with too much too soon. And I also believe he is fundamentally a decent person and is personally bothered by the corruption (I can rightly call BushCo. that) of the previous admin. I don't expect him to bend over to the left as far as I would like him to, but I will not worship his every move either. I think he deserves more time.

And even if some DUer goes a little overboard, in anger, by calling Obama a "bad" name, I can give a little deference to the poster, especially when it is about something as abhorrent as torture.

What you do cali, is worse. You create a straw man. (An implied significant percentage of DUers screaming about fraud, warmongering, and corruption) and then get on your high donkey and shoot it down. And all it does is draw out the extremism on both sides into this thread for what....? So you can get your thrills lashing out at anyone who you can entice to respond?

These types of OPs have to go away. They are totally useless, unless the purpose is to stifle dissent. It might as well have been titled "Obama is a murderer, He's a pedophile, He's a rapist." jeanpalmer had every right to express his/her opinion that dropping bombs on 500 innocent people makes you a warmonger. I don't agree, taken in the context that Obama inherited a war, and also the previous admins incompetence in crippling al Qaeda, but I can empathize with jeanpalmer because he/she gave a REASON for their strong opinion. If there are examples of posters just simply trolling threads and calling Obama any of those names for NO REASON whatsoever, please give an example.

In fact it is you that are throwing out accusations with no other reason than to throw shit on the wall and see if it sticks, and how many other flies you can attract.

[cali]

238. grab a frickin; clue. the stuff I quoted is everyday crap.

people have been tombstoned for it. The admin has signaled- hell, they've said- that they're weary of it, and many others have noted it too. Yeah, it's a minority but it's a vocal one, and one which I choose to address. There's nothing authoritarian about it.

Aside from that, I agree with your comments about Obama in your second paragraph.

No, it's not a strawman. I didn't construct these comments. They aren't rare. You have more tolerance for them than I do. That's fine.

It's totally ludicrous to believe this OP or OPs in this vein, which ironically enough, you say must be made to go away, are attempts to stifle dissent. Do you understand how funny that is? YOU are actively advocating stifling a pov as you rant about me stifling dissent. That's some cognitive dissonance you've got going on there.

Don't like the OP? Fine. I don't try and stifle dissent. Unlike you.

[sui generis]

245. wow and you are the arbiter of What Is Allowed

:eyes:

I think you may be on the wrong site too some days.

Cali, if you can rant, why can't others? It is ranting. And when you get disaffected because your significant other (or anyone you place great trust in) violates trust over and over you can two ways:

1. Getouttamyhouse
2. Get codependent

:popcorn:

[Mari333]

246. I will post anything I want to about Obama

and do it right here on DU.
have a nice day.

[cali]

249. go right ahead

and if you get a pizza, oh well.

[Mari333]

260. When did you become the DU Queen?

Ive been here for many years. and I will post as I wish, and there are no rules saying I cannot criticize Obama.
Attempting to play thought police on here will get you tombstoned faster, little one.

[cali]

262. there is a rule saying you can't just trash dems

I'm not saying you do that, but some people do. I never claimed to be queen of anything. That's your little delusion, sweetie.

And I'm sure as fuck not trying to play though police, wee dearie. And YOU are the one threatening tombstoning.

[Mari333]

263. you are playing DU cop

and no, you arent a DU cop. If someone comes onto DU and states that they think Obama's behaviour is warmongering and his policies are wrong, they have every right to do so.
Thats the beauty of DU. dissent and critique. anything else is no better then freeperland.
Critique of dems has always been allowed on DU.
deal with it.

[cali]

265. no, I'm not playing DU cop- no matter how many times you repeat that canard

and yes, criticism of dems is allowed. And that's a good thing, but in case you've forgotten, DU members are expected, per the rules, to be generally supportive of dems. My OP was not about criticism. It was about hateful bashing. And yeah, that's clearly a tombstonable offense. Several longtime DUers have been banned for it recently. That's really not my business or my concern. I just wanted to vent re my feelings about people spewing their hate at Obama- not criticism, deranged fucking hate. Don't like my OP? Fine. But I'll write what I feel like.

[Mari333]

267. you are defining critique as hate

you titled your OP poorly.

[cali]

268. those are quotes.

and they surely aren't reflecting criticism. they're simply hate and bashing.

[Mari333]

269. obama is a warmonger can mean

he is promoting warmongering behaviour by his policies. warmonger is someone who encourages a nation to war. ergo, his stance on afghanistan may be viewed by many as a form of warmongering " we must go after Al Queda", 'Drone attacks kill women and children' or "Obama seeks 84 billion dollars for military OPs" or "Obama continues Bush administration mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan" Therefore, a poster may see Obama as behaving like a warmonger in such an instance. That is critique.
Continuing the practice of mercenaries in occupied countries by the USA would be a form of 'warmongering' to many Dems, ergo, "Obama is a warmonger" is their analysis.

[KoKo]

271. I doubt you will ever get the granite...

in spite of your filthy mouth trashing other DU'ers and your picking a reply out of a thread and blowing it up into one of your many posts of "Outrage."



I doubt you will ever get the granite.

[cali]

272. yes, I like to swear. And no, I don't trash other DUers.

And do note, that's what you're doing to me here. Not that I particularly care expect to point out your hypocrisy. As for there being some conspiracy about my being protected from being tombstoned, that's silly. And simply not true. Oh, and the vast majority of my posts have zip all to do with outrage.

[SlingBlade]

283. Cali, This is where your supposed to say ...

I know you are, But what am I :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Stupid fart faced fraternizers :puke:

[Cali_Democrat]

274. I think you should read the rules again

Here ya go....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

:hi:

[MadBadger]

250. I saw the headline, and my blood started to boil. Then I saw the author and calmed down.

[Autonomy]

264. K&R

[DissedByBush]

273. Corrupt?

Well, he is a politician. In our political environment that makes him corrupt pretty much by definition.

Warmonger and fraud cannot be used. I don't blame him for wanting more money for Afghanistan and Iraq as he has to intelligently pull us out and that takes time.

[burning rain]

275. The effect of that sort of thing is to help elect Republicans;....

before the election it served to boost McCain's chances (such as they were). And, I think smart people should realize this. After all, the Gore - Nader - Bush fracas of 2000 is still fresh in the mind. So I think it's reasonable to suspect bad motives on the part of "tear Obama down" types no matter how much they protest that they're lefties. I suppose some really could be, but by my lights that would make them pretty cracked-out, and if that's a better alternative than being a conservative sowers-of-division trolls, it's not exactly swell.

[bertman]

276. No more tantrums, please. After all, this is supposed to be a democracy.

In a democracy citizens are supposed to express their thoughts about how government is governing. It's our civic duty.

[cali]

277. uh, yep- within the constraints of the rules you can say what you please.

DU is actually not a democracy. and my OP was an expression of my thoughts. And calumny is not a civic duty.

[1badjedi]

279. After reading this thread

I guess I can cut short my stay. Too many of you sound no different than the other side. The OP is clearly trying to dictate what others can post and unless you are some kind of mod or webmaster of this site I wonder who gave you that authority? If I cannot think what I want to think or post my own thoughts without coercion then why bother.

There are some of us out here who don't do blind devotion, sorry. Personally, that is a conservative trait I do not carry. You can cry about the other side til you're blue in the face but acting just like them only proves you're no better. Then you wonder why they claim we have been drinking obama kool aid. Only talking up his success and omitting his shortcomings reeks.

Now go ahead an attack me too but don't expect any reply. You do not deserve the discourse.

[natrat]

294. yea its wierd, like freepers in reverse

god love the child who calls it like he sees it, blind faith is horrible. It seems the reality is that oligarchs are firmly in control of american government and that's not changing anytime soon. Hopefully the Obama crew can work within this construct to help people out as much as possible. Unfortunately the amount of money being borrowed and given to creepy banks seems like it ensures bad times ahead for the people saddled with trying to pay it back.

[cali]

297. it's hardly either/or, genius. the black and whtie thinking is pathetic

it's not a choice between being a blind supporter or the blind opposition. There is such a thing as critical thinking. Do try it sometime.

[bertman]

281. Oh. Sorry. I didn't know that at DEMOCRATIC Underground we weren't a democracy.

Pardon me!!

[MadBadger]

285. This site has Admin that are basically dictators. They dont act like them, but can do what they want

cuz its their site.

[cali]

292. oh, goody. now we have an OP up calling Obama das Fuhrer

fucking criminally stupid assholes.

[SlingBlade]

295. Thanks for the post, Cali

It's great to see not all D.Uers have turned into self centered assholes:puke:


Go Obama, Make em SQUEAL, Make em squeal like the pigs they are
:kick: