For any of you on DU who argue that Obama should always be moving in a 100% progressive direction,

[ConsAreLiars]

I assume you have rather little experience in the real world, where "possible" is one of the necessary conditions for choosing any action,and "survivable" is another. But if you don't have much of a clue about the real world, maybe you've played some video games, maybe too many, but have you ever seen one where "full speed straight ahead" was a winning strategy? Even the designers of idiotic fantasy "kill-em-all" games are more accurate about how things work that those who seem to argue that Obama should always act like some sort of Puritan zealot.

It's possible he is just a more effective whore for Finance Capital and the imperialist warmongers, but it is also possible that his words, which are generally progressive, and his actions, which appear to be mixed, are actually not contradictory. Maybe he is far smarter than most of us and actually moving in the right direction as fast as is both possible and survivable.

However, I also thought (wrongly) that Clinton might be a closet progressive, and all we got was "It might have been even worse." That we will get at least that much is absolutely certain, given the McInsane alternative, but I think it's a bit early to decide that Obama is either a very genius-grade reality-based progressive or a compromised player and sell-out. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I still see a fundamentally decent person and family who are striving to serve the greater good and are honest, caring, and very aware of the shark infested waters they are navigating.

[Adsos Letter]

1. You make an interesting observation ConsAreLiars...

To hearken back a bit in history, one of the things which separated James VI/I ability to rule the Three Kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Ireland (with their very different demographics and agendas) and his son, Charles I's, inability to do so was that James recognized the reality of the possible, when Charles didn't...a deficit on Charles part which was a major factor in initiating the Bishops' wars, and the English Civil Wars.

And eventually cost Charles his head.

[ConsAreLiars]

6. Offing with the head was an incentive plan for performance evaluations

that should have been in place for the last 8 years. Not that they would have done better, but at least the beheading example may have made a few of the parasite class a bid more timid and less rapacious.

[bigjohn16]

2. You seem to base you ideas on President Obama the man and not on

his actions. I take every issue separately and base my opinions on the facts of each issue. I don't have "faith" in any person, when a civil servant is wrong on an issue I write letters and do all the other ineffective things I do when I'm angry at a certain policy. He was the one who said he could walk and chew gum at the same time so why can't he investigate any possible crimes that went on in the last eight years and still continue his effort on other policy issues?

The issue of torture is bigger than President Obama. It's the future of our country and our standing in the world that's at stake. So to say that he has to look out for the "sharks" because of his political career is an affront to human decency.

[ConsAreLiars]

3. You conflate two different observations.

My observations about "possible and survivable" are just the facts of life, even if some, as maybe you, don't grok that shit. This is reality, even if it is something you have never experienced.

The second part is purely subjective, impressions about the man, as I make clear.

[bigjohn16]

4. Than it's not change it's just the same old "facts of life."

He sold himself as an agent of change but according to you he can't change things because it's just not "possible." It is possible for him to start an investigation at any time. Is it certainty that there will be convictions, no. It's still his duty to investigate any possible crimes of the previous administration. Just because it's politically inconvenient isn't a good enough reason to ignore the rule of law.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigjohn16]

9. That a lot of personal insults for one post.

I don't have the ability to spit in another persons face on your level, as I'm from cartoon-world.

[obiwan]

7. I like Obama's pragmatism.

There's what you believe- and then there is "what is".

[Kaleko]

8. I still think Obama is a brilliant politician as well as a genuine civil servant.

His actions demonstrate that he truly wants to function as a uniter, not a divider, unlike his predecessor who claimed that moral high ground for himself. This striving for unity, diplomacy and graceful forgiveness appears as selling out at times, even to myself. But I have learned to wait. Obama's next move may be yet another surprise.

Like you, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because we see many shades of gray and hold many perspectives simultaneously, unlike the people who can only see black and white. Maintaining strict either/or positions may be too unrealistic at this time, given the incredibly convoluted mess we're in due to systemic dry rot and corruption.