President Obama, we do not want to simply turn the page and forget.

[Danger Mouse]

We want to know the truth. We want to know the evils that Bush inflicted. We want them dragged out into the light and exposed. We want those responsible HELD responsible. We want to see justice, for those to whom justice was denied.
President Obama, I believe in you and that you want to do the right thing. Please realize that this is something America needs to do. We don't need you to lead the charge, but it'd be nice if your justice department took the initiative. I'd like to believe that that is what's going to happen. I can only hope...
AT LEAST HAVE AN INVESTIGATION, APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, GET THE BALL ROLLING!
Who knows what will come of it?

Please don't become the Democratic Gerald Ford. Please...

[HopeOverFear]

1. It's ironic but maybe the Senate will confirm Dawn Johnsen now

she is a passionate opponent of torture and she is or was in favor of prosecutions for torture, which is why the Republicans are holding back her confirmation. If only she were confirmed, she would have the President's ear and she'd be able to make the case for prosecutions.

[Danger Mouse]

2. It would be a big help.

He needs all the encouragement he can get.

[Skittles]

3. he ain't gonna do shit about it, DM

[Danger Mouse]

4. I'm going to be optimistic.

Then again, who knows? Maybe they threatened him. Maybe they threatened his family. Maybe it's all a hell of a lot scarier than any of us realize.

[Skittles]

6. he's made it pretty clear he will not hold them accountable

[ProSense]

7. No he hasn't

Not sure why everyone is conflating the CIA agents with the architects of the policy.

[ThomCat]

18. Because he's refusing to release any information about

the architects of the policy unless the courts order it, piece by piece, through freedom of information act requests. The ACLU has been fighting hard to get those documents and Obama has not been simply handing it over. He's doing everything he can to protect the Bush administration.

Obama has said that he wants to look forward, not back. He has said he wants to be cooperative, not divisive, and that prosecutions would be divisive.

So what makes you think he's going to do anything to see Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld prosecuted?

[ProSense]

20. More information?

There is enough information for a full-fledged war crimes investigation. Period.

[HopeOverFear]

24. Earlier today Rahm said that the architects wouldn't be prosecuted either, Pro

[ProSense]

27. And Axelrod contradicted him

here

I read Obama's statement, and I am not sure why some people, including Rahm, are conflating the CIA agents with the architects of the policy.

[HopeOverFear]

29. OH I didn't see that...thanks

[Danger Mouse]

10. Maybe to you.

Not to me. Not yet.

[rhett o rick]

12. Posted in wrong place.

[ThomCat]

15. I don't think so either. All signs are that he's a politician covering

the asses of the prior administration. He has no interest or incentive.

He's not one of us, he doesn't answer to us, and he doesn't listen to us. He's a politician. He listens to politicians, works with politicians, and covers for politicians. Like all politicians he works at a level dominated by corporate money and interests. We aren't there at that level so we don't count.

All the cheerleaders who keep insisting that we just need to have faith and give it enough time for the good news to roll in are using religious thinking in a political situation.

[vaberella]

42. Obviously you haven't been paying around for the past 90 days. n/t

[cliffordu]

33. Don't be hatin'

[Skittles]

37. I ain't "hatin'"

just stating what I believe to be fact

[MadBadger]

5. I agree with Skittles, he isnt going to take any action

And Id love to have a conservation with you about this, as you are a respectful individual,(also I'm not in agreement with DU on what he should do), but having it out here would only lead to me getting insulted in various ways.

[Danger Mouse]

11. What do you think he should do?

[MadBadger]

19. This is what I said to the person below

I want him to, But I think it would be a politically stupid move. I think that Obama can do a lot of good for this county through his agenda, and I would rather see those things happen for 8 years then to see him be a one termer in favor of the chance of people being behind bars.

When I say I want him to, I mean that in my perfect world, Obama would go after everybody, but at the same time, I recognize that he is a politician and that politics (rightly or not), plays a role in almost all decisions he makes.

Now I welcome a response or conversation. What I dont is insults hurled my way.

[rhett o rick]

13. Predicting he won't take action doesn't add much to the discussion.

What do you think? Should he or not?

[MadBadger]

17. I want him to

But I think it would be a politically stupid move. I think that Obama can do a lot of good for this county through his agenda, and I would rather see those things happen for 8 years then to see him be a one termer in favor of the chance of people being behind bars.

When I say I want him to, I mean that in my perfect world, Obama would go after everybody, but at the same time, I recognize that he is a politician and that politics (rightly or not), plays a role in almost all decisions he makes.

Now I welcome a response or conversation. What I dont is insults hurled my way.

[Danger Mouse]

21. Difficult issue.

Obama doesn't really need to do anything, though. Let Congress handle it. All he has to do is stay out of the way.

[MadBadger]

22. Thats exactly what I would like to see.

I would love to see Congress take the lead. Though it appears Conyers is fine with just criticizing everybody else while he does nothing.

[rhett o rick]

31. I did not intend my response to be insulting. nm

[MadBadger]

34. I'm sorry, its just I know how many DUers would respond through insult

So Ive been hesitant for many days to express this viewpoint which many here find repulsing.

[pleah]

8. Here is justice for ya..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFSsRTDACCo

I am not advocating the death penalty, but I might make an exception with bush and co..

[rhett o rick]

14. Cheney should be in chains in prison while bush should be sentenced to working at the counter at a

McDonalds for min wage for the rest of his life. "You want fries with that?".

[pleah]

16. I wonder if he would call them

Freedom Fries? :rofl:

[liberalmuse]

9. Once again, I'm going to give President Obama the benefit of the doubt.

Not too many people believed he would even release the torture memos, and he was being slammed all over the liberal blogs not a few days ago before we even knew what he would do. Those who were a little less cynical thought if they were even released they would be heavily redacted. It turns out they were wrong. I know Rahm Emmanuel is COS, but it really doesn't matter what he says in regards to the torture memos. We've got 3 branches of government and it usually isn't the job of the Executive Branch to prosecute anyone. If it is pointed out by the legal experts that President Obama would not be following the Rule of Law by inhibiting torture prosecutions, I have to believe he would not stand in the way. That being said, I am very, VERY upset about the things I'm hearing in regards to not pursuing the vile, sadistic, lawless assholes in the Bush administration responsible for these atrocities, and I understand the strong feelings being expressed here, but I'm going to wait and see how this enfolds before I start prematurely jumping his shit. I've already sent off emails to my reps, now I'll call and get that letter sent off to President Obama.

[bvar22]

23. It IS the job of the Executive Branch to prosecute.

Neither of the other two branches CAN prosecute.
Congress can call a bullshit "investigation", but cannot prosecute.
The Justice Department is organized UNDER the Executive Branch.
The Attorney General is appointed by the PRESIDENT and serves at HIS pleasure.
It IS the AGs job TO PROSECUTE, and the President if BOUND by at least 4 treaties TO PROSECUTE Torture and War Crimes.
It is ILLEGAL for the Obama Administration NOT to prosecute.


At this point, the Obama White House CAN appoint an Independent Prosecutor, and then STEP AWAY from this issue. If they don't do this, the Obama administration will be FOREVER TAINTED with the appearance of protecting Torturers and War Criminals.
THAT will be Obama's legacy.

[HopeOverFear]

26. re: It IS the job of the Executive Branch to prosecute

If they don't do this, the Obama administration will be FOREVER TAINTED with the appearance of protecting Torturers and War Criminals.
THAT will be Obama's legacy.

No it won't.

[rhett o rick]

28. You have such a compelling argument. nm

[HopeOverFear]

32. Damn right I do. Simple and to the point.

sigh, my bad, sorry for the emotional response.

[empyreanisles]

25. I *want* to turn the page. I simply don't get it. Do you wake up with this being the #1 thought?

I mean c'mon. This has been blown way out of proportion. It was as if Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld were actually in the room administering torture techniques.

At least that is what it would take to actually get them convicted. An impeachment would have been in order, I beleive, but that time has passed.

I'm telling you, this crime is more amorphous than you think. People seem to think there is some smoking gun.

And putting on a big show of a trial is NOT going to change hearts and minds of those determined to hate the West no matter what. Our very existence is what is offensive to them and nothing we can do will placate those who want to take power by force.

President Obama is doing the right thing. Don't hide from what we did. Admit it, apologize, condemn it, and move on to fixing health care, the economy, and foreign policy we CAN influence.

And please, no messages trying to equate this to giving a pass on slavery. I'm black and I won't be having any of it.

[Danger Mouse]

30. They worked very hard to cover their tracks so...

I do agree that a 'smoking gun' is unlikely to jump right out at us.

[Skittles]

36. it they are not held accountable

IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN

[HopeOverFear]

38. How do we know it wouldn't happen again even if no one is held accountable?

Just saying.

[TheKentuckian]

39. we don't

I'm not a big deterrence believer. I think we make sure it doesn't happen again by not electing the stupid loons and being less loony and stupid on the whole as a people.

The Romans nailed up all kinds of people and knifed even their tyrants but there were still more people to crucify and out of hand Emperors. No matter how hellish or certain punishment is there will always be offenders.

[Skittles]

40. holding them accountable makes a statement for America

WE DO NOT CONDONE TORTURE - why is this so hard for so-called DEMOCRATS to understand??????

[HopeOverFear]

43. BTW, I totally worded that question wrong

I meant to ask "How do we know it wouldn't happen even if we *DID* hold someone accountable?

People are held accountable for murder everyday. Some are even put on death row. But people still murder.

[blm]

46. Turning the page on IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning led directly to Bush2 and 9-11. Happy?

Good for the country?

[leftstreet]

35. K&R

[gort]

41. Mr President, you have to read the page first before you turn it.

Someone in the news said that. I wish I could remember who it was.

[Danger Mouse]

45. Nice quote.

:hi:

[mvd]

44. K&R

Nice to see you with me on this. :hi: