Imagine for a second if you will.

[Egnever]

that we went full bore forward with investigations. Not BS investigations real honest to goodness documenting of what has transpired in the last 8 years.

How bad would the fall out be? How many would be indited? How much of a media circus would it become. I mean the scope of this stuff is mind boggling. How far should it be taken.

I think it is pretty clear that the previous administration was running amok damn near the whole time they were in office. We have been discussing one criminal act after another here since this place was founded. It is also pretty clear that boosh's administration has had no problem with torture from the get go. We have been pretty sure that was the case since Abu gahrib. The memos pretty much confirm it and now that that damn has broken the stories seem to be pouring in.

I mean seriously how far would this go? I envision hearings dwarfing the McCarthy hearings by the time all is said and done.

[Chulanowa]

1. Nuremburg

That's how big.

And that's exactly what we should do.

[Buzz Clik]

4. This isn't fucking Nuremberg. Eight million people were not slaughtered.

Jesus Christ.

[Chulanowa]

6. I didn't say it was Nuremburg

I said it would be as big and as deep as the trials were.

Please pay a-fucking-tention. And unless you're pulling a David Irving, you're missing four million from your number.

[Buzz Clik]

7. "Nuremberg" is exactly what you said.

"Nuremburg. That's how big. And that's exactly what we should do."

If you're speaking only of the trial phase, that's new information. Don't blame me for not paying attention when the problem was your inability to express yourself.

[Chulanowa]

8. I expressed myself just fine

Clear and succinct. A question is asked? "How big, how far-ranging would such an investigation go" and my reply was that it would be as big as the Nuremberg trials were, appended by my opinion that we should carry out the same thing against these fucks who tortured in our collective name.

I could draw you a chart, if you like?

At any rate, aside from your outrage for the sake of being outraged, I suspect we don't really have much of an argument here... Unless perhaps you think this case shouldn't be ferreted out and prosecuted to the last man?

[Buzz Clik]

17. Somebody pissed on your Corn Flakes this morning. It wasnt' me.

Get a grip or go away.

And, learn to express yourself clearly or accept that others will be forced to interpret your words for themselves.

[stillcool]

10. Germany lost the war...

that is the only reason why there was a Nuremberg. Funny how Americans involved with Hitler were never even mentioned, and their offspring are the ones that legalized torture.

[Chulanowa]

12. Oh, the trials were very far from perfect

Too many Nazis gained immunity and lived the high life in the US and Russia as scientists or advisers or other positions like that.

But it was, as they say, "better than nothing". I believe in justice, not perfection.

[stillcool]

13. I think we will have our show...

some will be prosecuted..certainly not Bush or Cheney. Perhaps some in the Administration will be indicted. "National Security" and "Classified" material will keep things in check. The investigation and prosecution will go on for a while, and that will be that.

[zeemike]

2. The real truth is that we can't do it.

And not because we don't have the will but because of the enormity of the problem.
It would involve not only inditing top military officers but thousands of people in the military. not to mention the CIA and NSA and even the congressmen who were overseeing those agencies.
It would take noting less than a Stalinist type purge to do a Nuremberg like prosecution and bring everyone to justice.
And yes I would like to see it but not at the expense of destroying this country which it would surly do. And I think Obama knows this.

We are going to have to face reality and understand that our only hope of maintaining a democracy is to take the time to eradicate this evil from government without causing so much chaos that we destroy ourselves with our own moral principles.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. we are broken

and he is refusing to do the only repair that will work, whining that it is too extensive. But when the foundation is rotting out, you have no choice. Repair or the structure will fall. Not pleasant nor easy, but it is the only way.

[zeemike]

14. Yes but the question is to use a bulldozer or strategic repairs.

The truth is that Obama can not do it...it is really up to us to do it one stem at a time or just revolt and tear it all down and hope that we can replace it with some ting other than a dictatorship. and I doubt that can be done because the vacuum of power will suck in the authoritarian leaders as it has always done.
But what we can do is have investigations and let the light of truth reach the American public and take it out of the hands of the President.
and then systematically remove those politicians that were a part of this whole mess...it will take years not months.

[Chulanowa]

11. SO by preserving our moral principles we would be destroying them...

But we can somehow destroy a village to preserve it.

MMmmmmkay?

We're not going to "eradicate this evil" by ignoring it, by not touching it. That's like the exact opposite of "eradicate". The only way to deal with it is through justice. It's why we use such a concept in this nation. Apparently "justice" only applies in certain situations.

Your use of the term "Stalinist purge" is ridiculous. Stalin led political witch-hunts to stamp out his opponents both within and outside The Party. He destroyed those disloyal to his person, whether they be a single aide in the halls of government, or an entire tribe in Siberia. What we are looking at is a measure to get war criminals out of the military and human rights violators out of the government. Now if you want to call it a "purge" then so be it, that's a fine term for it. But I'm not seeing too much negative about purging criminals from powerful places.

[zeemike]

15. In order to purge you must first have the power to do it.

Obama does not have that power, although we would like to fantasy that he does.
Who would he get to do this purge? The Military? The justice department? Or would he establish his own police force to do the arresting?

The other way is for a revolt like what happened in France at the end of the 18th century where justice was done alright but in the end they wound up with Napoleon who created a war the killed millions and destroyed all hopes of justice the the revolutionaries had wanted.

[Fire1]

18. Outstanding! My sentiments exactly.

I don't think anyone in their right mind condones or sanctions such horror but if there are any prosecutions in this matter, I say, let the courts and congress pursue them and moreso, eradicate the evil so this can't happen again. I want THIS democratic president to put this country back on track not a martyr.

[Egnever]

20. I think that hits the nail on the head.

It would be such a clusterfuck it would consume us.

[Buzz Clik]

3. "How bad would the fall out be?" Very, very bad.

[lazer47]

5. If the country can survive all the investigations, media hype, of a simple BJ,,

why can't we survive a full blown (no pun intended)investigation and prosecution of something as heinous as TORTURE AND MURDER ????

[stillcool]

16. how can you possibly compare...

a blow job to the actions our military/intelligence/defense agencies have been involved in for generations? We still teach torture at the School of the America's but nobody seems to mind that. The way people act you would think our government didn't engage in torture, or military interventions before Bush.

[Chulanowa]

19. That's what you're getting?

The way I'm seeing it, people are acting like the US shouldn't torture, period, regardless of who, when, or why. It just took the Bush administration being so fucking blatant about it to really wake a lot of people up