The person who was ultimately accountable for torture was the former President Bush

[Rosa Luxemburg]

one cannot simply convict only the messengers, the ones carrying out orders, sworn to secrecy. The one who was in charge is responsible not just the former head of the CYA, former Sec of State etc. Who was that person? Yes it was former President George W Bush. He had knowledge of the torture, he condoned it and allowed it.

So what next.... :popcorn:

[Captain Hilts]

1. Or the underlings. Or just enlisted personnel as in Abu Graib. nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. they were just following orders

where I have heard that before

[global1]

3. The Buck Stopped There..........

in more ways than one.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. oh yes!

[AZBlue]

5. Any proof of that? Besides just that "he was the boss"?

I'd LOVE to see him tried and convicted, but you need proof to do that - just being President isn't enough in a court of law.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. The boss is always the one who is in charge of the whole thing

he can't pretend to say he didn't know

[AZBlue]

15. You're not a lawyer, are you?

Sorry, but that argument would get you laughed out of any court or judge's office in about 2.6 seconds.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. you don't need a court to see who directed torture

[ProSense]

21. This:

They tortured to justify Iraq war

[WinkyDink]

6. Criminal prosecution, I'd say.

[mix]

7. Yes, the whole torture debate needs to be reframed

The CIA and the Pentagon are both under the executive branch's control, Bush is public enemy #1.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. yes

[AtomicKitten]

10. So why is it that I want Cheney in particular to eat shit on this?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. he is second ultimately responsible as he was the VP

[AtomicKitten]

12. I think it's his morally bankrupt campaign to defend their policy of torture.

Grinds my last nerve.

[NoSheep]

18. Because some of us think it was ultimately his call and Shrub was just the

sacrifice Poppy made..like so many other sons have been sacrificed for the 'cause".

[SIMPLYB1980]

13. Maybe.

I despise bush, but a few things.

1. Bush is keeping his mouth shut.

2. Bush didn't pardon Scooter Libby as Dick Cheney lobbied him to do on several occasions. (payback)

3. I always thought Dick Cheney actually ran everything.

4. I wouldn't be surprised if Dick Cheney did this without Bushes knowledge.

If evidence shows Bush OK'ed this I think he should go down to.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

16. they used to meet

[stillcool]

14. This from the Armed Services Report...

In the First Bybee memo, the OLe had asserted that "any effort
by Congress to regulate the interrogation of battlefield detainees would violate the Constitution's
sole vesting of the Commander-in-Chiefauthority in the President.,,932 In keeping with that
finding, the March 14, 2003 fmal OLC memo held that the power to detain and interrogate
enemy combatants arose out of the President's constitutional authority as Commander in
Chief. 933 "In wartime," according to the memo, "it is for the president alone to decide what
methods to use to best prevail against the enemy.,,934
(U) In the March 14, 2003 final opinion, the OLC used its broad reading of the
Commander-in-Chief authority to conclude that "even if' federal criminal statutes "were
misconstrued to apply" to interrogations, the "Department of Justice could not enforce this law
or any of the other criminal statutes.,,935 According to the OLC, "even if an
interrogation method arguably were to violate a criminal statute; the Justice Department could
not bring prosecution because the statute would be unconstitutional as applied in this
context.,,93

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. Thanks!

[Jennicut]

20. Cheney ran Bush so Cheney is ultimately responsible.

Technically Bush was Prez but we all know the truth as to who called the shots.

[stillcool]

22. I consider him and accessory to Cheney...

He must have been so proud of himself, when he was picked to be the face of the cabal. I wonder if he wakes up feeling used, like after a one-night stand.

[Vidar]

23. Absolutely right. Prison orange suits him.

[LooseWilly]

24. Bush's perceived mental... lack of impressiveness

... will only serve to aid in his own defense.

I seem to recall hearing that Rice ok'd the torturing before the BS memos were drafted by the OLC. I also seem to recall hearing that everyone, except Bush, met regularly to re-examine and authorize the procedures being employed. I think I heard it on the Maddow show... so I'm assuming others have heard these things.

I think prosecutions should be enacted wherever possible... and I doubt that Bush was a particularly active component of the torture activities... as the torturing seems to have decreased in a direct relationship to Bush's increasingly becoming disenchanted with Cheney's advice, I which I think reflects an increasing uneasiness on the part of W with these extra inhuman behaviors as he began actually exerting himself and increasingly tried to actually do the job he was elected to do.
My theory is that Bush is basically intellectually lazy, ignorant, and more or less spineless. As he began to actually take over doing his own job... the activities of the office became increasingly ineffectual and incompetent... but likewise the torturing decreased.
I'd say Bush allowed it, but I don't picture him as being forceful enough in the beginning to have actually been able to condone or not condone it... effectively.

No wonder Cheney picked himself to be VP... with such a Boob to work as he liked as a boss.