The Return of Hillary

[wyldwolf]

From Politicalwire.com:

Yesterday's slap down of former Vice President Dick Cheney by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was a reminder of how useful it is for President Obama to have a star in his cabinet.

The Washington Post: "It wasn't the most stirring defense, but a defense it was, and it served as a reminder of Clinton's relatively low-profile in the first months of her tenure. To an extent, that makes sense; it's not the job of any Cabinet secretary to overshadow her boss, Obama has generally preferred to make major public announcements himself, and the White House is surely relieved that the Obama vs. Clinton storyline has been largely dormant since the Inauguration. But Clinton is a bona fide celebrity, the only one in the administration -- apologies to Hilda Solis and Shaun Donovan -- other than Obama. So when the president needs a surrogate to step up and help deliver his message, and rebut the criticism of a major figure like Cheney, Clinton is the obvious choice."

[SeaLyons]

1. Hillary is a STAR!!!!

We are very lucky to have her.

[blm]

5. Smart of her to side with the left against Bush and Cheney instead of supporting their decisions

for years. Funny how BRAVE some of these prominent enablers of BushInc became over the last year. HRC's siding with Bush's war decisions from 2001-2006 dulled Hillary's star for attentive citizens. I'm sure her newfound schtick against those same policies she supported will go over well.

Of course, I prefer her recent insincere position cracking on Cheney over her sincere support of their policies in the past.

[msongs]

6. like those enablers who voted to support spending on the war? nt

[wyldwolf]

8. shhh! Those don't count because... well... just because

[blm]

10. YOU're the one with the free passes for inconsistency, not me. I didn't think Obama voted bravely

when he voted like Hillary on that. I think he was too new and following too much in step with the Clinton-Lieberman position. Of course, Clinton and Lieberman's consistent support of Bush and Cheney's war decisions was in line with your position, too, wasn't it?

[wyldwolf]

14. It's getting away from you blm...

:rofl:

Everyone senses the maddening anger in your posts. A one woman crusade... windmills...

[blm]

25. I'm nowhere near mad. I'm consistent. Which is why you need to use ridicule to distract

from your own support of the Clinton-Lieberman position for all those years they supported Bush-Cheney.

[wyldwolf]

27. you're angry.

[blm]

36. hahah....sure, I am. More disappointed, though, that even many Democrats want history whitewashed

to fit their fanclub positions.

[wyldwolf]

39. whitewashed? Odd word coming from someone who's entire argument is based on a book ...

... full of unnamed sources

[blm]

42. Yes, National Security Archives is filled with unnamed sources in the BCCI report, IranContra,

CIA drugrunning and Iraqgate matters that were deepsixed in the 90s.

And Marc Rich was just another wealthy tax evader that needed pardoning, he was not a named figure in IranContra or BCCI which were both fully vetted and resolved, according to your news source The Fascistapologia News.

[wyldwolf]

44. Oh, the national security archives you claim to have seen? See, another example of you altering ...

... the focus.

You used to argue from the perspective of Robert Parry's gossip book.

[blm]

Parry's work is in the National Security Archives. Along with BCCI report you ignore in favor of

your preferred position that Poppy Bush never oversaw any illegal operations - he's a great patriot who served his nation honorably, just like Bill wants you to think.

[wyldwolf]

49. another example. In a previous thread you claimed to have visited the national archives

No you admit your exposure to them is via Parry's mostly unsourced book.

[blm]

63. You are incoherent. Parry's work is IN the National Security Archives. The archives can be accessed

via the internet. Your absurd posting proves you really don't understand the scope of work or the actual historic value of the National Security Archives.

[wyldwolf]

65. No, you constantly alter your story.

[blm]

81. Parry's work is IN the National Security Archives. Along with BCCI report.

I use National Security Archives for access to information, including investigative reports and congressional reports.

National Security Archives consider Parry an investigative journalist who uncovered serious wrongdoing in IranContra.

Bush cronies and apologists for years have smeared Parry as a lying gossip.

[wyldwolf]

86. but before you said you'd visited them. Hard to keep up with your constant alterations

[blm]

99. dance, dance, dance....Fascistapologia needs you.

.

[wyldwolf]

101. you don't even bother denying it anymore because your posts are all over DU's archives

:rofl:

[blm]

111. My consistent posts about the consequences of Clintons protecting Bushes for many years. You are of

the belief that Clintons siding with Bushes and their cronies has been good for this country and I am of the belief that the consequences have been tragic.

That is the bottom line to all our exchanges and I am certain the National Security Archives contains enough reporting that proves I am being honest in these exchanges.

[wyldwolf]

113. based on unnamed sources with ever-changing minor details.

[ShortnFiery]

128. self-delete

[blm]

142. Parry's work is well-sourced no matter what game of pretend you choose to play here.

.

[wyldwolf]

144. Really? Why is there "unnamed source" and such peppered throughout?

[polmaven]

130. 'Course not, wyldwolf...

This poster would NEVER alter her stories.....Just like she kept to just one story here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7986108#7989276

:crazy: There were about 4 or 5 different versions of the Kerry/O'Reilly contest here. Sometimes it is really hard to follow which version is which!

[ShortnFiery]

133. Why am I not surprised that one of your little tag team buddies now joins the fray?

Damn you're all just precious! ;)

[wyldwolf]

136. why am I not surprised very few will come to your defense?

[JuniperLea]

141. snort...

:spray:

:rofl:

This was an awesome little exchange! Thanks!

[blm]

143. What a crock ya got going there....Hillary supporters who DID support O'Reilly claiming IWR were

the subject. O'Reilly voters in general were operating with very little grasp of the facts.

[niceypoo]

46. Anger indeed...

Did you even read the OP or did you merely see the name 'Hillary' in the caption and come in flailing with rage?

Your comments have absolutely nothing to do with the point of this thread.

[wyldwolf]

50. that's her routine and has been for about 3 years now

[blm]

57. Hillary upbraided GOP in the hearings - Cheney not a credible source - easy to do when they're weak

and vulnerable. She SIDED with Buah and Cheney, however, at the time their policies were being implemented. And when a few Democrats spoke out against those policies she remained curiously quiet throughout that time instead of standing with them, and her spouse vigorously defended Bush's policies publically.


But none of that is supposed to matter to Democrats who STAYED in the fight against Bush-Cheney all these years, or matter to history when it is written, right?

[ShortnFiery]

48. Best wishes blm, but if you say anything negative about Bill or Hill, you will be DESTROYED

by the "all things Clintonian" lovers.

Nobody dare say anything negative lest they be judged by "the great one" A.K.A. wlydwolf. :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

54. word

The personal attacks in lieu of substantive discussion makes me cringe, and I say that having once been part of the Clinton-protecting pile-on.

[ShortnFiery]

58. True. And setting all emotion aside, we must admit that these folks are HUMAN and

it is not objective to consider them as "Celebrities."

I'm very proud of Obama being our President but I will continue to criticize and hold him accountable.

It's dangerous when we "fall in love" with a person's image because then we are unable to LOOK OBJECTIVE at their behaviors.

Everyone needs to be provided feedback and kept on track. Even highly intelligent Democratic Leaders like Hillary, Bill and Barack. :shrug:

With respect, they are fellow human beings and should be judged accordingly.

[AtomicKitten]

77. Agreed.

I learned my lesson on blind allegiance.

[blm]

59. heheh....eagles don't fear those too frightened to even try flying......

.

[blm]

9. like anyone who had access to cameras from 2001-2007 but wouldn't speak against BushCheney's

decisions.

If Hillary had spoken out against Bush and Cheney when they were at their MOST POWERFUL, then her speaking out now would be trusted for its consistency. Now, she's just joining an antiBush parade that she tried for years to trip up.

[AtomicKitten]

13. There is a big difference between starting a war and funding maintenance.

I see some here at DU continue to conflate the two in an attempt to spread the blame, but it doesn't mitigate the bogus rush to war and the fact that some Democrats cheered it on at the same time Obama spoke out against it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUV69LZbCNQ

[blm]

26. They also want to pretend that Bill didn't use his influence to urge Dem lawmakers to support Bush

knowing full well they would trust his privileged position of access to classified information that they couldn't see.

[ClarkUSA]

40. What'd you want them to do? Leave the soldiers without ammo?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

24. Accurate recall of recent history has proven to be unpopular amongst a certain set who would agree

with your use of the word pathetic.

[wyldwolf]

28. she knows one song

[blm]

31. The accurate history song you hate is a compilation album. Preferred by honest citizens willing to

remove their fingers from the ears and their lips from the asses of the closed government fascists and their cronies.

[wyldwolf]

35. just one song, blm. You know but one song

[Beacool]

52. Oh, please...........

:eyes:

[VeraAgnes]

2. I truly believe she enjoyed that morsel of GOP smack down as an appetizer.

I saw her licking her lips afterward.

[harun]

84. I think she is just getting warmed up. The best is yet to come.

[Stephanie]

3. I am becoming a fan again

I have to admit it.

[ShortnFiery]

53. That's too bad. I've never lowered myself to be "a fan" of any other human being ...

especially one who is called "a politician."

Newsflash: They're mere mortals too.

[Saturday]

4. She is a true team player. nt

[blm]

12. Now that she's finally playing on our team instead of Bush-Cheney-Lieberman's team, right?

Or was that a different Sen. Clinton supporting those policies from 2001-2007?

[wyldwolf]

15. a one woman crusade... windmills...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. Number of refutations offered by you: Zero

Windmills, indeed.

[wyldwolf]

22. only in two dozen or so other threads. She just changes the focus when a refutation is offered.

:shrug:

[blm]

29. I don't change focus and that is why you cower behind your wall of ridicule instead of refuting

the statements you know cannot be refuted.

You are welcome to show the years of arguments Clinton made against Bush and Cheney's war decisions from 2001 thru 2006. You know....back when Cheney had LOADS of credibility with Senator Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

30. yes, as soon as someone (me, Magistrate, countless others) poke holes in your arguments...

... you modify your arguments.

[blm]

33. hahahah.....sure you did.....in the land of Fascistapologia where you dwell, maybe....

never here, where the most common counter was that Clinton had no choice.

[wyldwolf]

34. "Fascistapologia" LOL.

:rofl:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. This should be quick then.

Question 1: Was an affirmative IWR vote enabling?

Question 2: Was an affirmative PA vote enabling?

[wyldwolf]

37. you're right! It didn't take you long at all to post that irrelevant reply

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. Irrelevant?

Poster 1 claims enabling.
Poster 2 (that's you, genius) claims windmill crusade.
Poster 3 (that's me, genius) notes that enabling is a distinct possibility, would P2 deign to qualify their charge?
Poster 2 (still you, genius) claims irrelevance and scampers away.
Poster 3 bangs head against wall

[wyldwolf]

43. You injected yourself into a conversation between me and someone else then tried to refocus it

The conversation blm and I are having goes back at least three years and has very little to do with the questions you raised.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

56. Strange.

Smart of her to side with the left against Bush and Cheney instead of supporting their decisions

Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 07:01 AM by blm
for years. Funny how BRAVE some of these prominent enablers of BushInc became over the last year. HRC's siding with Bush's war decisions from 2001-2006 dulled Hillary's star for attentive citizens. I'm sure her newfound schtick against those same policies she supported will go over well.

Of course, I prefer her recent insincere position cracking on Cheney over her sincere support of their policies in the past.

Instead of having "very little to do" with the questions I raised it seems to have virtually the exact same context as the questions I raised.

Very odd.

[wyldwolf]

60. Again, you're not familiar with the back story. Here's a link to educate yourself

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2981139

How about instead of automatically disagreeing with me based on who I am, you read about blm's ever evolving obsession.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

93. I'm familiar with the back story, believe me.

blm/RiF have gone toe-to-toe so many times it's ludicrous.

While I'll admit that there is an auto-disagree factor (based on the fact that that I almost always disagree with you :D), I'll stand by my reasoning in this thread.

DU rules:
Do not "stalk" another member from one discussion thread to another. Do not follow someone into another thread to try to continue a disagreement you had elsewhere. Do not talk negatively about an individual in a thread where they are not participating. Do not post messages with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member. Do not use your signature line to draw negative attention to another member of the board.

Working on this basis, I felt that this was a self-contained thread that would discuss the merits of the offerings within said thread, therefore feeling that interjecting myself was reasonable and fell under the auspices of what a discussion board hopes to achieve.

[blm]

123. you and I never stood on opposite sides when it came to government corruption

of the last three decades, just on who we trusted more to get accountability for that corruption.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

140. Yep.

In the Grand Narrative I'll side with you over ww in a heartbeat.

I hope all is well.

[blm]

96. Hahah....that proves my consistency. i've said Clintons protected Bushes on many levels

and whether we're discussing the 90s and deepsixing BCCI and CIA drugrunning matters or McAuliffe's DNC collapsing party infrastructure in crucial states or the Clintons' consistent support and Bill's vocal defense of Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war before the 2004 election, it all comes down to me consistently noting that Clintons protected Bushes.

The Clintons betrayed Democrats and open government citizens who believe in accountability for BushInc and their cronies, and you would dance on the head of a pin to pretend they didn't.

[wyldwolf]

103. you're consistency has never been questioned.

You've been very consistent in your obsession with the fable you've created. You alter a few details, but the song remains essentially the same. Or as someone else at DU once said, "wheez."

[blm]

112. dance, dance, dance....What would Fascistapologia be like without you dancing on that pin?

.

[wyldwolf]

114. wheez wheez wheez... you spread it around like cheese.

[Beacool]

62. Was that team any different form the Kerry-Lieberman team?

Edwards-Lieberman and all the others who voted for the IWR? Or is this diatribe only directed at Hillary?

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

67. watch out! Kerry is blm's hero - and he wanted to pick John McCain as his VP!

[Beacool]

69. I see.................

:7

[karynnj]

97. You know that that was not true

you know that a McCain staffer approached Kerry with the idea, Kerry entertained it, and spoke to McCain and decided that it was impossible because McCain (who had flirted with becoming independent in 2001) would not switch to Democrat and their differences were too big. This is the ONLY thing Kerry ever said. McCain gave at least 4 totally different stories.

Kerry is scrupulously honest even when it is not to his advantage; McCain has a tendency to embroider the facts a bit.

[wyldwolf]

104. well, that's certainly one version

Then there's the widely reported story:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Kerry+asked+McCain+running+mate&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=Kerry+asked+McCain+running+mate&fp=CGM4k02K5DI

[karynnj]

138. OK, How many accounted were directly from Senator Kerry ?

This is the ONLY one ever found by anyone in the JK group - and we looked. McCain was on video both saying there was NO OFFER and giving different versions of an offer and his response. There was also the unbelievable account McCain gave to Newsweek - that had Kerry acting more like McCain would - and very like the Kerry, who has been a public figure for 4 decades.

As to the media - ask yourselves how would they get the story from? Kerry, who was NOT and is NOT a media favorite or their BFF McCain. In addition, Biden pushed the idea because he liked the idea after the media brought it up. Biden also in 2006 or 2007 said he would like McCain as a VP.

[wisteria]

145. That is not true. It was the other way around. n/t

[blm]

76. Voting for the IWR and staying SIDED with Bush-Cheney's decisions is Clinton-Lieberman position

and, maybe you are unaware that Kerry sided WITH the weapon inspectors that force was not needed and came out against Bush's decision to invade and called for Rumsfeld to lose his job over Abu Ghraib three times, and Hillary STILL stayed sided with Bush. She didn't change her support for Bush's decisions until Lieberman lost his primary race in 2006 and she was preparing to launch her own primary run.

Any Dem who voted for IWR had a special obligation to speak out when Bush invaded in spite of the weapon inspectors' reporting back that there was no reason for force to be used. Kerry was the only IWR aye voter who did speak out against Bush's military decisions before, during and after the invasion, and never stopped.

Hillary stood with Bush's position over Kerry's. The only reason she is against Bush's decision now is because that position LOST in 2006 and 2008 election cycles.

[wisteria]

146. Yes, it did take a long time for Clinton to admit to making a mistake. n/t

[blm]

147. Mistake? Both Clintons' roles were crucial to selling Bush's integrity for his war decisions and

selling the war itself to American people and the world.

THAT was their privilege and that is how they CHOSE to use it.

[karynnj]

92. Kerry was NEVER on a team with Lieberman and Kerry spoke out and was the focus

of Republican attacks for doing so in January - March 2003 in the run up to the war. "Do not rush to war" and comments that it was not a "war of last resort" mean something - the latter means that it is NOT a just war.

Bush, not Hillary, made the decision to invade. Bush is responsible on a level that no one else is. Where the Clintons share slightly more responsibility than others is that they have and had the biggest megaphone the Democrats had. You have constantly bragged about that for HRC and it is true. Few non-political junkies heard or read Kerry saying that the inspections and diplomacy still were options and not to rush to war. Had either Clinton done the same, claiming the media coverage they could easily command, it could have made it harder for Bush to decide to go and it would have led to Democrats (except maybe Lieberman and Edwards, who was VERY supportive of invasion at that point) be on the record that they were against it.

There were 5 months between the vote and the invasion. During that interval a lot happened - most importantly there were the first inspections since 1998.

[Beacool]

107. I have no beef with Kerry or his actions during this time.

My point was that why keep singling out Hillary as if she were the only Democrat to vote for the IWR?

Yes, she did have a large megaphone, but she also lived in the WH for 8 years and knew that you don't attack the president on foreign affair matters once we are at war. Even if that damn war was started under false pretense by a bunch of neocons.

[blm]

116. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. In an election year she chose to STAY sided with Bush

on a war that her husband helped sell to Blair, Dem lawmakers and to the American people. And somehow some of you want to claim that both Clintons were rendered powerless to change a thing during that time.

[karynnj]

139. Very wrong!

1) I am speaking of before the invasion.
2) In a time of war, if things are wrong, it is PATRIOTISM to dissent. Staying quiet is not the answer. Not to mention, once she started running, she criticized the President in a time of war on foreign policy - so was it good only if would definately politically benefit her.

[Jennicut]

7. I was never a Hillary supporter before but she has my respect now

Things got crazy during the primaries and she wanted to win SO badly but she had found a voice and place in this WH and I am happy she is there. She and the Prez seemed to have developed a good working relationship (just remember the picnic table photos near the swingset!). She is a powerful asset to Obama for sure and has had years of experience battling the RW.

[niceypoo]

38. Love her, or hate her...

...there is no doubt she is both smart and tough. She has no problem kicking ass and taking names for Obama.

[NJmaverick]

11. They have sort of a good cop bad cop dynamic going

[wisteria]

16. The morning and afternoon media was constantly reminding us of the conflicts between Obama and

Clinton during the primary seasons and the rivalry.

[JohnnyLib2]

17. Consider the long, long run--

and there she is, working hard.

I'll point out, again, that she was a senator representing New York, home state of the 9/11 attack, during the Bush years.

[blm]

45. NY Senator should've stayed keyed on Al Qaeda, not siding with Bush-Cheney on Iraq.

and being from NY doesn't excuse her utter inability to speak out against Bush or why Bill Clinton used his privileged position to URGE all Dem lawmakers to support Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq, and used his high profile booktour in summer of 2004 to vigorously DEFEND Bush against criticisms of the left, being launched most notably at the time by our Dem nominee.

[JohnnyLib2]

47. Back to the long, long run and viability--

Is there someone, in the list of realistic possibilities, you would have preferred for Secretary of State?

[blm]

106. Siding against Bush-Cheney from 2001-2007 would've prevented HRC from being SoS in 2009?

Please. Mindless applause for her wisecracks today against Cheney won't make the very real consequences of her support for his policies disappear, let alone the real consequences from Bill's vigorous defense of those policies before the 2004 election.

[JohnnyLib2]

119. The OP was simply a (quoted) comment about the current Obama/Clinton teamwork.

And I commented on her long term viability in national politics.

Otherwise, many Dems have very public records of their actions during the Bush years. Big can o'worms, there.

[ErinBerin84]

18. I was flipping

through the channels yesterday, and saw Neil Cavuto's show on Fox with the headline something like "Hillary jabs Cheney, gets Shot down". Gets shot down? These people really are on a different planet.

[DevonRex]

21. What I love about these 2 together is that they're both confident enough

to enjoy when the other has the spotlight. That is a very rare quality in politics and to have 2 of them in the same administration is just amazing.

Really, I should say 3 because Biden is the same way. That's why I think we have the most amazing team possible.

[Captain Hilts]

125. Thank you, DRex. nt

[Life Long Dem]

23. Go get them Hillary!!

:bounce:

I'm not too sure about her being the "one"...but I don't reject it.

[Beacool]

51. Of course she is a "bona fide celebrity"!!!

Has been one since 1993. Hillary is one of the most celebrated women in the world. Travel with her in any of her capacities (first lady, senator and now SOS) and see throngs of people come to greet her. Like someone said once on CNN who had gone on some of her travels: traveling with Hillary is like traveling with Elizabeth Taylor at her height.

;)

[ShortnFiery]

55. Dream on McDuff.

:crazy:

[wyldwolf]

61. Still mad Bill chose her over you? LOL!

[ShortnFiery]

68. Just when I think you could not sink to any comment more rude than the past ...

You spout-off with something even more snotty than your last slight. :eyes:

You're just plain rude wyldwolf.

IMO, a lost right-wing democratic soul. :(

[wyldwolf]

70. Ms. Rude is complaining about rudeness? LOL!

[ShortnFiery]

75. That's only because you have ZERO faults and I am in awe of your power.

:crazy: :P

[wyldwolf]

78. nah, you just get upset because you don't have a dedicated soap box to preach from

[ShortnFiery]

80. No, we both know that The Clinton Adoration threads will remain pure. You and your posse

will MAKE IT SO.

You're not fooling anyone but those who drink the "everything they do is beautiful" CLINTON KOOL-AID.

I may be too harsh but you folks are WAY too accepting of certain personalities.

[wyldwolf]

83. and we both know you'll continue to obsessively shit on them

[ShortnFiery]

89. Sure. As you concurrently DEMAND that we all adore them as SUPER-HEROES.

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

94. how have I ever demanded anything? OH... you mean by daring to post something positive

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

95. ...

[wyldwolf]

100. ...

From your baby book.

[ShortnFiery]

108. Thank-you.

You are the master of one-ups-man-ship. ;)

[wyldwolf]

110. you're welcome

[ShortnFiery]

115. De Nada.

One of your brethren called to promote Terry McCullif for VA Governor. I'm sure they bad mouthed me as skillfully as yourself after I flatly refused to support his bid for the democratic nomination.

Come next election when you Third Way Democrats DEMAND and INTIMIDATE us into voting for your corporate loving, conservative candidates ... well many of us liberals will not be there for you.

My point: You can win all the little league battles yet lose the war.

Have a great day genius. :hi:

[wyldwolf]

117. You sure have an inflated sense of your importance

[ShortnFiery]

118. Stop stealing my lines.

:evilgrin:

[wyldwolf]

120. to think campaign operatives would talk about you.. lol!

[ShortnFiery]

121. Yeah, I guess that MY MONEY isn't important to them because it's from a Liberal Democrat?

:crazy:

[wyldwolf]

122. no, YOU are not important to them

[ShortnFiery]

126. True, "Third Way" Democrats and their ilk tend value corporations over INDIVIDUAL interest.

Gotcha sport!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Against-Third-Way-Alex-Callinicos/dp/0745626750

The Third Way is the political philosophy of Tony Blair and New Labour in Britain, Bill Clinton in the United States, and Gerhard Schroder in Germany. Defended most forcefully by Anthony Giddens, it claims to offer a strategy for renewing the Centre Left that avoids the free-market liberalism of the New Right and the state socialism of the Old Left.


In Against the Third Way, Alex Callinicos develops a fundamental critique of this philosophy. He argues that Third Way governments have continued the neoliberal policies of their conservative predecessors. They have promoted the interests of the multinational corporations, privatized areas where Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher dared not go, and allowed social and economic inequality to continue growing. Callinicos also attacks the theoretical underpinnings of the Third Way. He challenges the idea that the 'knowledge economy' is freeing us from the contradictions of capitalism, denies that New Labour has coherent strategies for achieving greater equality or reconciling the interests of individual and community, and argues that what is called 'political globalization' - the higher profile of international institutions such as NATO, the IMF, and the WTO - masks the assertion of American imperial power.


The best hope for the Left, Callinicos contends, lies in the emergence of an international movement against global capitalism with the protests at Seattle, Prague, and elsewhere. Those who want to see real change should be challenging the logic of the market rather than, like Blair and Clinton, extending its dominion.

[wyldwolf]

127. how does quoting a obviously biased anti-Democrat screed equate to "gotcha, sport?" LOL!

[ShortnFiery]

129. Thank you for for making my case in support of Average Americans via ...

the increased organization of *LABOR UNIONS* to counter the OLD ideology of Neoliberism repackaged by your idol, et. al., as The Third Way. :-)

[wyldwolf]

131. what case? A cherry picked book? I can do the same which would state the opposite... "sport." LOL

[ShortnFiery]

132. I accept your apology.

[wyldwolf]

134. No apology has been extended. Another of your fantasies

[JohnnyLib2]

64. C'mon now--

All the years of press reports are kind of hard to ignore, aren't they?

[Beacool]

71. You know the woman?

Well, I do.

Enough said.........

;-)

[ShortnFiery]

79. Really, when was the last time we had coffee? Oh, you love to pile on adoration

threads of all things Clinton?

I know you too. ;)

[Beacool]

82. I meant that I personally know the person you so love to disparage.

If I didn't, I wouldn't defend her so arduously.

Have a good day.........

:-)

[ShortnFiery]

85. Thank you for clarifying this comment.

I also hope you enjoy your day. :hi: :-)

[Beacool]

90. See? We can all get along if we respect each other.

:fistbump:

[ShortnFiery]

91. There's hope for better communications between you and me ... that's a start.

:-)

[Beacool]

66. Can we EVER have ONE positive thread about a Clinton

without the usual posse of malcontents rushing to piss all over it?????

Some on the left are just as nutty as those on the right. CDS must be chronic.

How about biting your collective tongues and letting those who like them enjoy our thread in peace? There are some Democrats who I cannot abide and I try mightily from pissing on a positive thread on them. I simply stay away and not comment. How about giving the rest of us the same courtesy?

:crazy:

[wyldwolf]

73. the funny thing is, when they come to piss all over it...

... they whine when you turn the urine stream back towards them. "Bullies! Trying to censor me!!!"

[Beacool]

88. I don't get these people.

When I see a strictly positive thread on someone I don't particularly care for, I simply abstain from commenting. People have the right not to be hounded because they like some Democrat in particular; be it Obama, Kerry, Dean, Pelosi, etc.

It IS a Democratic board after all, isn't it?

:shrug:

[JohnnyLib2]

98. Wellllllll----it was highly popular and the in thing recently.

The times, they are achangin'. :hi:

[Beacool]

109. I guess so.................

:pals:

[WI_DEM]

72. Yes, a brilliant decision by President Obama to make her secretary of state

Of course she is a star, but Obama is a superstar.

[Beacool]

74. And so is she.

There are 3 Super stars in this party: Obama and the Clintons. Michelle will probably be the 4th.

;)

[JohnnyLib2]

102. Methinks HRC is still perceived as a threat.

Old beliefs die hard, eh?

[wyldwolf]

105. a threat to who, though?

[ClarkUSA]

87. Huh? What's the big deal? Biden has smacked Cheney down repeatedly before this.

What else is a member of the Obama administration supposed to say about Cheney's venal remarks about the President? :shrug:

[Cha]

124. I like the job

she did on mike pence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFrML6s0hw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftpmdc%2Etalkingpointsmemo%2Ecom%2F2009%2F04%2Fhillary%2Dto%2Drep%2Dmike%2Dpence%2Dr%2Din%2Dpresident%2Dobama%2Dwon%2Dthe%2Delection%2Ephp&feature=player_ded

[Samantha]

135. I did not support her candidacy but she's done an excellent job

in her current position. Kudos to Hillary.

Sam

[brianna69]

137. Hillary rocks the house. She is doing an outstanding

job as Sec of State.