Johnathan Alter criticizes torture; but, alas! in 2001, he supported torture and rendition

[Chuckleberry]

Jonathan Alter went on Countdown on Friday (no official transcript available yet) to criticize torture. I applaud that line of thought.

Alter: Remember at the time, the greatest crime in America history had not been solved. We hadn't gotten to the bottom of 9/11 on who attacked us. So there was a fair amount of desperation to try to get more information. It's important, historically, to look at the context of this story.

But what happened afterward, even though this was clearly torture, anybody in the military knew it was torture, there was an effort in these OLC memos to try to dress it up as something else, call it enhanced interrogation techiniques, or whatever they want to gild the lily, although it wasn't a lily. To try to say that black was white and white was black. And for several years they seemed to get away with it until it started to unravel on them.

But as Digby noted later that night, Alter ADVOCATED TORTURE in 2001, in a piece entitled "Time To Think About Torture", in which he recommended the use of the truth serum (illegal under international law) and sending detainees to Saudi Arabia:

COULDN’T WE AT LEAST subject them to psychological torture, like tapes of dying rabbits or high-decibel rap? (The military has done that in Panama and elsewhere.) How about truth serum, administered with a mandatory IV? Or deportation to Saudi Arabia, land of beheadings? (As the frustrated FBI has been threatening.)

...

"Short of physical torture, there’s always sodium pentothal (“truth serum”). The FBI is eager to try it, and deserves the chance."

And if it isn't yet clear to you that Alter didn't mean what he said about Saudi Arabia, read the last paragraph:

We can’t legalize physical torture; it’s contrary to American values. But even as we continue to speak out against human-rights abuses around the world, we need to keep an open mind about certain measures to fight terrorism, like court-sanctioned psychological interrogation. And we’ll have to think about transferring some suspects to our less squeamish allies, even if that’s hypocritical. Nobody said this was going to be pretty.

Alter could have apologized and recognized his involvement in pushing for the violation of the treaties to which we are signatories, but he didn't. Instead, he told us to understand the "context," in which some thought this way (without including himself).

It didn't help that Olbermann didn't refresh his memory. Maybe next time.

[KathieG]

1. .

:popcorn:

[Jennicut]

2. Typical MSM. Say one thing do another, carrying Bush's water for years.

They have no credibility left.

[depakid]

3. Exactly

Hence the origin of the term media whore (or presstitute whichever is appropriate for the context).

There are literally hundreds like that out there....

[blm]

19. There was NO left voice in mainstream media from 2000-2005 except those CHOSEN to pretend

they represented us on the news networks - like Carville, Begala, Klein and Alter - no real progressives who would dig in against BushInc and hit them hard or provide back up to any Democrat who did speak out against Bush.

[dem629]

4. I think his objection is more about the way they twisted the law

rather than to justify it by other means. At least that's what I gathered listening to him. Maybe I'm wrong.

And whoever "digby" is, they need to learn about copyright. (re: Broder columns)

[Chuckleberry]

7. I will tell you who Digby is

Since you tell us that you don't know who Digby is, I will inform you that:

Joan Walsh of Salon.com called her "the great Digby," and "one more smart, mouthy woman in the top ranks of opinion-makers" in a 2007 piece. http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/media/2007/06/20/digby/

Digby is a progressive blogger who won "the coveted Koufax award for blog writing" in 2005, as reported by the Washington Monthly:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_02/005713.php

Digby is a woman whose story about Alter was linked to by Glen Greenwald (I assume you know him), and has been quoted by Greenwald numerous times in the past.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/26/broder/index.html

Digby is a progressive blogger who got more votes than Thinkprogress.org in the 2008 Weblog awards category for best liberal blog.
http://2008.weblogawards.org/polls/best-liberal-blog/

Digby is a progressive blogger who won the "Paul Wellstone Citizen Leadership Award on behalf of the progressive blogosphere" at the Take Back America Conference in Washington, DC, as reported by The Nation magazine in 2007, http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070702/digby

Finally, Digby is also a blogger who did not tell us that torture was ok in 2001 nor 2009.

That's Digby.

[Deja Q]

5. In 2001, I disliked Macs. In 2009, I love a lot of them.

I might have good reasons for changing my opinion.

Then again, saying "I don't know" as a response doesn't help too many people...

[Phx_Dem]

6. People are allowed to change their minds. The important thing is, he did.

Immediately after 9/11 people were scared and angry and many of them supported things they may not (hopefully!) support today.

[Skittles]

10. say "many people"

because I certainly never supported war or torture

[bvar22]

14. People are allowed to change their minds. However...

...when searching for Truth and Leadership, I tend to trust people who got it right the first time, especially if they stood against popular opinion.

That is one reason I am a supporter of Kucinich and the Democatic Wing of the Democratic Party.

[NYCGirl]

8. Good thing Alter wasn't part of the Bush admin., because then they'd torture...

oh, wait...

Glad he changed his mind. There was a lot of anger in the fall of 2001. Fortunately, in many cases, including Alter's, cooler heads prevailed.

[Political Tiger]

9. Written less than a month after 9/11

Most of the nation was still in shock when Johnathan Alter wrote this article, assuming he did, as there is no link to it.

I say that because the website this is posted on, SweetLiberty.org, where "with God, all things are possible," seems to be one of those crazy conspiracy sites where global climate change is a hoax while cells phone will kill you.

[Torgo Johnson]

11. Alter definitely wrote the article

Here is the article at AccessmyLibrary.com

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-10137675_ITM

And here is Alexander Cockburn writing an article about it in The Nation

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20011126/cockburn

[Chuckleberry]

12. looks like The Nation wasn't in an 911 mindset back then

Kudos to The Nation.

[phleshdef]

13. In 2001, I thought Bush and Cheney were "all right" and considered myself an independent...

In 2009, I'm pretty much a raving lefty and can think of very few people that disgust me more than Bush and Cheney.

[autorank]

15. k*r Value added

Alter was one of the voices that said 2008 could be a squeaker. Guy's a gatekeeper who gets
enough credits most of the time to make his periodic bull shit sound acceptable. This is a pretty
clear statement, casually delivered. He obviously isn't that shocked by recent revelations of what
was going on when he made the statement, as evidence by his non apology apology.

Why isn't Robert Parry featured on the talking heads circuit. He was right about Bush all along.

[Forkboy]

16. A lot of people in Washington take their stances with a finger in the air.

I do, too, it's just a different finger. :evilgrin:

[blm]

17. MAINSTREAM media was on board with whatever Bush wanted and so-called lefties who thought

it was OK to go along with Bush at the time had all the cover they needed from the best known Democratic names who also sided with Bush on these matters - Clinton, Lieberman, Biden......all the cover BushInc needed.

Think about WHO called for Rumsfeld's job in 2003 and 2004 and especially after Abu Ghraib, and how many BIGNAME Dems sided with Bush instead of backing up Dems who DID stick their necks out to speak up for ACCOUNTABILITY.

Think about which Dem leaders were targeting certain agreeable media 'lefties' with background assessments from their privileged point of view. Carville certainly was tapped by mainstream media to BE the voice of the opposition, though we learned too late his real mission to protect BushInc, its powerful Dem enablers, and his war criminal wife.

[Fleshdancer]

18. Many Americans wanted revenge so soon after 9/11...

This is ultimately why the rule of law should never be ignored. The desire for revenge is so strong and so dark that it can drain anyone of their logic and compassion if they are hurt bad enough. If we don't follow our own laws during the times when we are severely tested, then we end up becoming what we hate.

[Odin2005]

20. Give him a break, a lot of us were saying similar things right after 9/11.