Let's admit it.... VP Biden f-ed up this morning

[scheming daemons]

He created undue concern that isn't based on any facts.

How many thousands of Americans are now avoiding public transportation because of his brain fart?


I love Joe. He's a great guy. A genuine guy. A great VP.


But his mouth got ahead of his brain this morning, and the administration has had to spend all day walking back from what Joe said.


30,000 people this year will die from plain old influenza. "Swine" flu is no more dangerous than any of the other influenza virii we've dealt with year after year. The symptoms are the same... the casualty rate is roughly the same... the incubation period and transmittal is the same.

It's bad enough that the media is going out of their way to make this seem worse than it is. Joe needed to moderate his words better.

For God's sake, don't tell people to avoid subways and buses. A VP's words have to be weighed more heavily than a Senator's, Joe.

Joe's words could have a strong detrimental affect on the economy - and they're not even accurate in their depiction of the situation.

We shouldn't be shutting down our economy because of a goddamned flu virus. This isn't 1918. This flu isn't any more "lethal" than any other strain we've dealt with in recent years.

Wash your hands, cover your mouth, drink plenty of fluids, and if you're sick.. stay home. If your kid is sick, stay home with them.

Other than that... calm the fuck down.

[Uzybone]

1. Yeah I think he did

the media runs with any slip up he makes so he knows he has to speak with an abundance of caution. Sometimes he cant help himself.

[babylonsister]

2. Not so fast...

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=04&year=2009&base_name=is_joe_biden_right_about_swine#114808

Hey, opinions and all that. :D

[Jennicut]

10. I agree with what he said. It was common sense, not panic inducing.

And for those of us with a weakened immune systems or who have children under 5 or take care of the elderly know they are more vulnerable to getting dangerously sick with the regular flu. This type of flu has no vaccine. That is what makes it more dangerous, not necessarily the symptoms. The symptoms here so far have been mild but not in Mexico. It could easily get worse. I am cautious but concerned.

[LakeSamish706]

Isn't it amazing how the media takes one little sound bite out of the entire...

conversation and blows it out of proportion like that. I agree totally with what VP Biden said... I would tell my family (wife is going to France on Friday) to take all precautions short of canceling the trip (cause she would loose her money).

[Think82]

The media does this with Biden A LOT for some reason.

It's like they have some sort of vendetta against him. Saw it during the primaries, the campaign, now this...

[Muttocracy]

82. Biden got off on the wrong foot with the media when his first wife died

and they've never given him the benefit of the doubt.

[Jennicut]

86. Yup. His problems with the media go way, way back.

I read What it Takes not too long ago, a book about the 1988 Presidential race and the media was brutal toward him and some of the others in the race as well.

[Ilsa]

3. I love Joe Biden, but I have to agree. I'm not going to extol every word

that proceeds from the mouths of our leadership like they do at Freeperville. JB screwed up saying what he did, and the WH had to spend energy on trying to fix it. VP Biden needs to be more careful.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Oh well. Shit happens.

"Joe's words could have a strong detrimental affect on the economy"

Oh puhlease.

Calm the fuck down.

[scheming daemons]

6. It's not the end of the world... but he needs to weigh his words better

We don't need public transportation taking a hit because of misguided "advice" from the VP.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. If this late-season flu really hits in this country, public transport

will take a hit anyway, just as the workplace will. Better to exercise caution now and not have half the office out sick in three weeks.

[knixphan]

27. makes sense to me.

[NYC_SKP]

31. I maintain that the MSM is spreading more fear by repeating selected bits of it.

Maybe we ought to be slamming them, or the media slamming them, or, wait a minute.

Any way, taken as a whole, Joe is correct.

But you're right, he should have been more selective.

:patriot:

[CreekDog]

39. if he had weighed his words he wouldn't have said that at all

we are all born with the ability to speak faster than we can grasp the consequences.

to say he should be more careful is like saying i should remember to carry an umbrella when it's going to rain. well, duh! :eyes:

[Teaser]

5. nope. based on facts.

.

[scheming daemons]

7. Then everyone should avoid the subway EVERY flu season.....

Because "swine" flu is no worse than any other strain.


It's ridiculous to think that we should all shut down our lives because of a flu bug.


Over-reaction. Big time.

[Jennicut]

15. There is no vaccine for this flu. Hence the difference. You can ride the subway with no fear

if you have a flu shot.

[scheming daemons]

17. Have we, as a govt, ever suggested that people without flu shots should avoid subways?

This is ridiculous.

It's the freaking flu. Talk Tylenol Flu, get lots of fluids and rest, and in a few days you're fine.

If you have a immune system deficiency, then you have to take more precautions.

But 99% of the population doesn't need to alter their lifestyle.

[Jennicut]

22. I would never ever take puplic transportation without a flu shot in flu season

but then again I have diabetes and want to avoid being sick at all costs. I suppose other healthier people don't have to worry as much.
This is a different type of flu we don't know that much about so making any assumptions right now that this flu will be worse or better then regular flu is just too soon. The reports are conflicting. Here in the US the cases have been mild but not in Mexico.

[stillcool]

34. The only problem is..

that this is a new strain and the implications have not yet been realized. So...until such time as there are confirmations about the severity of this particular flu, why not take precautions?

[Forkboy]

61. Sometimes there's no vaccine for other strains as well.

The CDC guesses ahead of time which strains will be the prevalent one each flu season. If they waited until a specific flu hits it would be too late to produce the vaccine in quantities needed in time to make a difference.

Sometimes it's not the right vaccine for the strain of flu that hits. There's no guaranteed effective vaccines for the flu many years.

Each year, the CDC makes predictions about the flu virus strains that will circulate in the coming flu season.

http://blog.healia.com/tags/cdc

Experts had been concerned about last year's vaccine because the particular strains circulating during the 2003-2004 flu season did not exactly match those included in the vaccine.

Nailing the best vaccine is part epidemiology and part guesswork. Typically, it is prepared months ahead of time so it's ready to administer in time for the flu season. In the United States, experts take note of what strains of virus are circulating in other parts of the world, notably Asia, and anticipate its arrival.

http://sexualhealth.e-healthsource.com/index.php?p=news1&id=520639

[LakeSamish706]

21. He didn't say that either, he was asked what he would recommend to "HIS FAMILY" and...

that was his recommendation. He did not tell other Americans not to do those things, just his near and dear.

[yourguide]

62. what facts...

sort of like the so called "fact" that you claim to live in a city just slightly smaller than NY?

Well the fact is if you dont want to get any cold or sun burn dont leave your house. If you dont ever want to get in a car wreck, dont ever get in a car.

Sorry, joe should have chosen his words more carefully.

[PassingFair]

8. He said he'd keep his kids out of CLASSROOMS...

yeah, he screwed up.

[DJ13]

9. When he states a personal opinion, I have no problem

We knew he's famous for this, so feigning surprise seems kind of silly.

I just enjoy having a politician that speaks his mind for a change, instead of trying to get him to be what he's not.

[scheming daemons]

11. I guess we have to live with it.... we want the straight-talk Joe, we get the occassional gaffe

I just wish, on the big issues, he would let his brain catch up to his mouth before speaking.

[ksoze]

19. BUT his personal opinion is not the same as a civilians as VP

He may hate McDonald's, but he cannot say it to the world. His advice to his family should be kept to himself, especially if it may be counter to his bosses advice or suggested tone being sent by the administration. His "tell it like it is" attitude cannot be really telling it like it is. You can be plain spoken and still maintain the admins direction.

[ProSense]

12. Did you hear what

Condi said?

[scheming daemons]

13. I already knew that Condi was an idiot.... what's the point?

She's not currently part of the administration.

[ProSense]

23. Outrage central.

I watched the tape of Biden, and it takes a lot of people being intentionally obtuse to turn this into a major outrage.

First: He was speaking in context of the flu.

Second: He was addressing his personal views.

Third: If Biden had said this outside his personal views and specified that anyone who was sick should heed the same advice, then he would be absolutely correct.

An awkward moment, but between the media and OMG crowd, this is getting stupid.

[Jennicut]

28. LOL at that post at Daily Kos.

People need to calm down about everything.
If I get the flu I am screwed because I have a bad immune system so I am gonna be extra cautious, like the VP said because I don't wanna get sick but to say his comments will cause panic and ruin the economy goes overboard. Now people are panicked that the VP may panic people who are already panicked and are essentially panicking about being panicked for no good reason because the media told them to freak out. Sheesh.

[Cha]

37. Thanks for

that, Jennicut.

[scheming daemons]

33. I only read the transcript... and the media coverage of what he said

And based on that, he made a mistake.

Not a MAJOR MAJOR one.


But a mistake.

[ProSense]

48. "and the media coverage of what he said"

Yeah, that's the mistake.

[MADem]

14. Well, at least he didn't say there were WMDs where they didn't exist!

Yeah, he fucked up. I'm sure he regrets it.

It's not the first time JB has shot his mouth off, though. It's an occasional impediment of his. I'm over it!

[scheming daemons]

16. True enough.

...

[President Decider]

18. Joe is only saying what he's doing for his family. I think President O set the tone last night

[annabanana]

24. I know... It wouldn't have raised the furor it did if Joey the Scar

hadn't started with clips on his show right after they got hold of the Today footage...

""Biden GAFFE!!. . Will they have to "walk this back"????

The rest of the echo chamber just up and ran with it and PRESTO..... major contoversy..

[Mass]

25. That will happen again. And it will happen to Obama. No need to go in full panic mode because of

what he said. Calm the fuck down yourself.

[politicasista]

54. Ouch!

I agree though.

[snowdays]

26. Note from the Travel Industry

Biden says avoid planes, subways; puts out clarifying statement

New Biden flap over public transport warning AFP/Getty Images/File – Vice President Joe Biden, seen here on April 16, 2009, courted controversy Thursday by appearing to recommend …
Amie Parnes, Carol E. Lee Amie Parnes, Carol E. Lee – Thu Apr 30, 8:57 am ET


.........

That contradicted more restrained advice from President Barack Obama and the federal government — and the last thing the White House wants to do right now is shut down the airline industry and big-city subways out of mass panic.

The White House quickly arranged for Biden to make this statement through a spokesperson.


“On the Today Show this morning, the vice president was asked what he would tell a family member who was considering air travel to Mexico this week. The advice he is giving family members is the same advice the administration is giving to all Americans: that they should avoid unnecessary air travel to and from Mexico. If they are sick, they should avoid airplanes and other confined public spaces, such as subways. This is the advice the vice president has given family members who are traveling by commercial airline this week. As the president said just last night, every American should take the same steps you would take to prevent any other flu: Keep your hands washed; cover your mouth when you cough; stay home from work if you're sick and keep your children home from school if they're sick.”



Host Matt Lauer had asked the vice president: “This is by no means a ‘gotcha’ type of question. … But if a member of your family came to you … and said, ‘Look, I want to go on a commercial airliner to Mexico, and back within the next week,’ would you think it’s a good idea?” Biden made it unmistakably clear he would not want his family to make any trips on planes or subways.

These sorts of comments are what the Obama administration fears from Biden, who after more than three decades in Washington is known for making gaffes.

...............

Geoff Freeman, the senior vice president of the Travel Industry Association of America, called Biden's comments "unfortunate."

"We need to leave this in the hands of the medical experts, and medical experts are not discouraging anyone" from using these modes of transportation, he said.

Biden and other government officials "need to be very cognizant of the words they use and not make inflammatory comments." .......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090430/pl_politico/21925

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. Well, I'll take a Biden misspeak over a Cheney...bullet in the face any day.

[CrispyQ]

30. Holy shit. What he said was just common sense.

A few days ago CNN had a reporter on a bus pointing out all obvious surfaces where one could encounter germs - the seats, the rails, the doors & windows - pretty much the whole fucking bus. No one claimed that was alarmist.

Too bad Joe can't get more attention about this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8377887

[AtomicKitten]

32. Uh, no. His advice to stay out of crowded places is sound. n/t

[scheming daemons]

45. Which is why the administration is walking back from his comments all day?

Come on... Rahm and the rest of the staff know this was a gaffe.

We can admit it and move on.

[ProSense]

47. They're responding to the MSM's BS

and people who are buying into it.

[AtomicKitten]

49. The advice is sound with regard to exposure. Joe B wasn't specific, therefore, the clarification.

[jeffrey_X]

92. Define "crowded spaces"

what a crock of shit.

[AtomicKitten]

94. A lot of people in an enclosed space with poor ventilation.

Plus washing your hands frequently.

Both common sense precautions for, well, most people.

You're welcome.

[jenmito]

35. I admit that he messed up by saying he would tell HIS family not to travel

in any enclosed mass transit vehicle where someone could sneeze or cough implying they might have the swine flu and give it to his family members. I ALSO think GIBBS messed up by claiming Biden MEANT to say that SICK people in his family shouldn't travel that way. It's ridiculous to try to cover up his mistake. Gibbs should've just told the truth-that Biden messed up and regrets saying what he said, knowing it might make OTHERS feel that if BIDEN wouldn't want HIS family traveling via plane, subway, etc., THEY might not want to do so for the same fear.

I think Napolitano said Biden probably wishes he could've taken those words back since that's not the position of the admin. THAT'S the right and honest thing to say, I think.

[wisteria]

36. You know, Biden was advising caution- trying to protect people.

Swine Flu may or may not turn out to be a big deal, but at least I know that Biden cared enough about "us" that he though it ok to advise caution. I have to wonder about the priorities of those that seem to care more about the transportation industries and losing money then they do about people.

[jenmito]

41. I, as someone who thinks he messed up, don't care about the transportation

industries. I care about all the people who have no choice but to use mass transportation who may now be freaked out every day by an "innocent" cough or sneeze in their vicinity.

[wisteria]

56. I think the media and the WH has already done a good job of freaking them out.

I would think that most people has thought of the possibility of contracting this in confined spaces. Our SOS advised caution the other day when traveling to Mexico and other countries.

[jenmito]

66. I agree, but when Joe makes a "gaffe" people see it for what it is-the truth

as he sees it. He was known as "Mr. Amtrack" or something so as VP, his words may have a lot of credibility.

[Jennicut]

42. Exactly. The travel industry could care less about what happens to us.

I do think Obama and Biden should be on the same page regarding this and in that case maybe Joe did mess up. But I think its sound advice to avoid enclosed puplic areas if possible.

[wisteria]

59. I think Biden is being made the scapegoat or fall guy in all of this.

The media have over blown it and the WH has over compensated on it to counter the lack of response from Bush on matters of a similar nature in the past. If this turns real ugly-which I doubt, Biden should be heralded as a hero for voicing caution ahead of others but right now I think they need to blame someone for creating some panic.

[Jennicut]

72. It IS going to get worse. The World Health Organization said today

that most likely it will move to an alert level 6 which is a full on pandemic. We are at 5 now, localized pandemic. We don't need to panic but we do need to be smart. A WH aide came back with it, there are cases in the UK now, Tamiflu is running low on its stocks because of the overpanic. This could turn much worse soon.

[wisteria]

91. I think they are over reacting. Mexico nows says they think it is waining and

the strain itself in the US has been mild. Sorry, but you are reporting yesterday's news and I think reacting as our government and the media has over a total of 109 cases in America is nothing more than an over reaction. I understand why, but when taken in context to the thousands who die each year from one version or another of the yearly flu this is overkill.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090501/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu;_ylt=AjvNGkr8o8gbuy_UaQFDPDCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJldGw0ZDA0BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNTAxL21lZF9zd2luZV9mbHUEY3BvcwMyBHBvcwM1BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA21leGljb3NoZWFsdA--

[Adelante]

38. Impolitic, yes, but it stands to reason

If a virus is transmitted person to person, proximity is a factor. I think anybody who rides the subway would understand this simple fact.

[Barack_America]

77. Yeah. That's the truth of it.

What he said wasn't WRONG, it just was unwise, given his position.

[msallied]

40. I think people are overestimating the potential impact of Biden's words.

And the media is aiding in this. I think it's pretty common sense to avoid cramming yourself into an airplane, train, elevator, or other confined space when you have the flu or some other cold. The fact the media is running with this speaks more to a problem within our media rather than Joe Biden.

[stevenleser]

43. Facepalm

Joe! :spank: :banghead:

[scrappydo]

44. I wish everyone would calm down....

Biden spoke his mind in relation to his family. Many families are taking the same precautions. I live in New Mexico and I am a nanny for a 2-year old - a relatively light-stressed job as I am working on my doctorate degree. My little charge and I do many fun things while I have him but I will not take that little guy to any place where there are crowds until the swine flu fears blow over. It is using common sense, just plain common sense. To over blow Biden's remarks is just blowing more hot air. Get a grip already!

[Occam Bandage]

46. I agree. He was premature. nt

[Bankhead_ATL]

50. Grrrrrr.........

[global1]

51. So I Guess Bush Or Cheney Would Tell People To Just Go Shopping.......nt

[stray cat]

52. What he said is true about how diseases like flu are carried.

if you absolutely want to avoid the flu don't be in contact with densely packed groups that might contain sick people. However, most of us do come in contact with people during our work or commute and we are more likely to get sick with any aerosol transmitted disease.

[marshall]

53. It's Biden's job to make Obama look even better by comparison

We all knew he was prone to gaffes long before the election. It's time to just roll with the punches.

[Cha]

60. How sad your

mind works that way.

[Vinca]

55. I agree entirely with Joe. If I don't have to put myself in a confined

space with a bunch of strangers during a flu epidemic, I'm not going to. Idiots get on airplanes with tuberculosis, so they sure as hell will get on with the flu.

[LittleBlue]

57. Totall disagree. He simply told people what he was telling his family

What kind of bullshit is this when you can't tell the truth?

I wouldn't ride on an airliner to or from Mexico. Use some fucking common sense, here!

[TheKentuckian]

58. Its Joe. Part and parcel.

I'd prefer a more "stock" type answer and move on but we knew we'd get this kind of thing every now and again.

[Egnever]

63. Well I think he is right but....

I am not sure it was a good thing for him to say. Theres enough panic arround this thing already.

[opihimoimoi]

64. Is this the Best the Negative GOPers can come up with? How Shallow

Picky picky picky....this is a GOP way

This is so pathetic and sad....

They never learn do they?? Jus don get it!

[Think82]

65. Poster is VERY WRONG. Read this:

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=04&year=2009&base_name=is_joe_biden_right_about_swine#114808


"Which is why the absolute best case is that Joe Biden did something that's so effective that he looks really stupid. If people actually reduce social contact and cut down on air travel and stay home in response to a single cough, then it's much likelier that swine flu will quickly die out. If it does, we'll all feel a bit foolish over having taken those precautions and late night comics will make fun of Joe Biden and everyone will move on. If we don't, and R jumps up, then we could be dealing with a full blown pandemic and Biden's warning will come to be seen as, if anything, insufficiently alarmist."


Once again, Biden is getting shit for being correct by the idiotic msm.

[depakid]

67. It won't be the last time Biden opens his fat mouth and says something stupid

[jenmito]

68. Wow-not a fan, I take it?

[depakid]

70. Not particularly- though that's not the reason for my take

Biden likes to hear himself talk and has a long history of yapping before thinking.

[Think82]

76. Read this before judging

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=04&year=2009&base_name=is_joe_biden_right_about_swine#114808

[depakid]

81. I'm well aware of the science- and the alarmism

As it stands, the swine flu isn't as virulent as a nasty A-strain that goes around on any given year.

Of course, that could change by next fall.
.

[BeyondGeography]

69. Yes, but it's Biden, and people know his boss has his act together and plays error-free baseball

Not much harm, in other words.

[renegade000]

71. Sorry, I don't think I can get terribly outraged about this.

I mean should Biden have said what he did? No. I'm sure he'll be chided by the PR people later.
However, he did seem to at least implicitly acknowledge this wasn't exactly his field of purview by mentioning this advice only in the context of what he told his family. And given that the media has been hyping this flu event up like it is the frickin' apocalypse, he understandably articulated a position of caution, which at least has a sound epidemiological basis if perhaps a bit too overzealous for the current situation.
Do I really think his words are going to actually do legitimate damage to the economy? No.
I think I would have been more upset had he told people not to worry and in fact go around shaking even more people's hands...or to go shopping.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a little annoyed at the whole "Biden is a gaffe-machine" narrative the media shoves down our throats. I mean, yes, he does occasionally say somewhat impolitic things, but as far as "gaffes" go, they are usually pretty tame. And I mean, we just came out of 8 years of having a Category 5 gaffe-machine as our president and we weren't subjected to these monthly installments of "everyone react to this new and goofy gaffe!"

[secondwind]

73. I think that Biden gets nervous for his family (because of his wife and daughter's deaths)

[Cha]

74. Well, there ya go..I didn't

even think of that..and who wouldn't want to look our for their family?

[Muttocracy]

84. And he has an elderly mother in frail health and very young grandkids. nt

[Undercurrent]

75. I LOVE the guy!

Love him. Love him. But it's well known that he talks to much, and gaffs to often. That is why, in spite of his keen mind, and his deep understanding of the issues he never became President himself.

It's the same old media folderol. The media makes mountains out of mole hills instead of reporting real news.

[Stellabella]

78. After the Bush disaster(s), this is how I rate problems that the media covers

over and over and over again ad nausem.

Did anybody die because of it?

If not, then it's not that big a deal.

[Thrill]

79. He can't act like he use to as Vice President. Have to watch what you say

.

[Canuckistanian]

80. I tend not to take medical advice from vice-Presidents

I listen to health officials.

If it were that dangerous to take transit, the transit companies or municipalities would be shutting them down.

[jillan]

83. OMG - Joe was asked a question about his family traveling to Mexico - and he answered it!

Let's all freak out now!

[Muttocracy]

85. I, for one, always get my medical advice from Joe Biden. 'Cause we all know he's a gaffe machine.

Wait, which is it again?

[treestar]

87. How influential is he?

I know I don't plan my day according to the daily words of Joe Biden.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[and-justice-for-all]

89. Yeah, well, at least he did'nt kill anyone...nt

[Autumn]

90. I thought it was commen sense, I told

my family the same thing.And I'm not excited about it.

[ContinentalOp]

93. Hey, he's trying to give a boost to auto sales.