I love President Obama, but he's pissing me off. There, I said it.

[babylonsister]

Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) is a travesty to me. I know it will happen, but it needs to happen now.

Healthcare and allowing other voices to be involved? What's up with the lack of their voices, and now the 'talks' will be taken into hiding?

We need everyone to be involved in this major measure that will affect all of us.

WAR. I'm not encouraged. President Obama, you had better give us a very good reason, or you're losing my support.

Holbrooke today:

Holbrooke: I Can’t Be Certain Afghan Troop Build-Up Won’t Be Counterproductive

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5639527&mesg_id=5639527

[leftstreet]

1. ...

:wow:

[snowdays]

109. +1

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. My dear babylonsister!

I hear you, and I'm upset too.

He needs to talk to us, pronto!

K&R

:argh:

[SamCooke]

3. Go support a republican then and see if it gets changed.

Its not even the 1st 200 days and u want him to basically give the republicans life. He fights for that and the GOP is back on the comeback trail. Some people just need to relax and realize things like this take time. The man is trying to reform health care, manage 2 wars and avoid another possible war and u want him to basically risk any political capital he has on DADT? i just don't get it. I'd much rather have Health Care than DADT changed right now.

[Divine Discontent]

5. So now we push the bar to saying "200 days". Then it will be he's not even been in office 6 months.

I agree, yes, and we all understand, he's just in office a 1/3 of a year, but that quickly turns into a year. And to be frank, I don't think the health care he's advocating that you want changed so badly is the kind of health care change that is even remotely positive for us - it'll benefit the HMO's at least.

I understand the risk, but I'm tired of politics as usual. Just stand up for what's right and say why it's right. Tell this country we need to stop treating being Gay as something to think of as something negative and say we do a great disservice to our military by losing these talented Gay people who are linguists, medical personnel, etc.


Who KNOWS how long this health care issue will take. And, sadly, it doesn't seem too positive to be anything to be proud of with the way that Congress is trying to lead it and shove it down our throats.

Just discussing with you on what you said, and I hope you don't think I'm being snippy. I am just tired of trying to appease these bastards. We have a strong majority, and once Franken is in, we really need to start using it quickly. We need a massive overhaul of plenty of things in this country. We're falling behind other countries in so many categories.

[SamCooke]

6. He's already took on the CIA and is still doing so. He's apparently about to release photos

which will further piss everyone off. I think he's picking his fights, and I don't blame him. If I was him I'd burn whatever pictures he's planning on releasing, becuz more than likely the military will be pissed at him as well as the CIA. I feel bad for the man. So many people want so many different things.

And I have faith that Obama will do the right thing when it comes to Health Care.

[Divine Discontent]

7. I understand...

I pray for him. These disgusting rape/torture/murder pics are not good - but #1 - he isn't responsible for them, and they must be atoned for somehow. I'm glad he's standing up. He's got courage. I know he's focusing on the biggest issues, and there's so many "big" issues anyhow. I know the previous office holder pretty much mangled the hell out of this country... thankfully, most of us realize that. We gotta watch out for the ones that hate on him (like the teabag nuts who would make since if they were doing what they were doing 5 years ago!).

take care

[dgibby]

9. The fact that he's releasing these photos is very interesting,

especially in light of his statement about "looking forward".

My theory is that since a majority of Americans don't want to prosecute for war crimes/torture, he's going to release these pics and maybe some more classified memos/documents, then sit back and wait for the public outrage to surface. In other words, he's going to make us make him prosecute.

[leftynyc]

53. I agree with you

Releasing those photos is a big mistake. It's just going to piss off the very people we're trying to help.

[bdamomma]

69. he's not releasing the pictures now.

[LostinVA]

30. Yes, because the OP was a HUGE McCain/Palin supporter after HRC lost the nom

I have no idea why Skinner still allows her on here. I'd report her if I were you.

[EFerrari]

105. I could swear Sam Cooke was just reposting one of babylonsister's own posts.

[butterfly77]

71. Thanks for sayin it...

as I was reading it me and my friend were on the phone saying the same thing. The President needs to get the big things done first before the silly season gets into full force. He has 3yrs and 6months to take care of a lot of this shit and some people want it all done in the first few months.

I know damn well a lot of people on here have seen how the republiCONS work we don't know everything that is going on behind the scenes especially with the fake Democrats/Bluedogs who are really republicons working with there buddies so nothing gets done.

[Divine Discontent]

4. I think he's a great guy, too.

Remember when the Big Dog was on a pedestal with nearly all Democrats years back. Then, after his terms ended, we realized that he misspent the political capital he had, could have done more, regrets how some things early on were handled.

To me, this is a defining problem I've noticed. President Obama really wants to hear everyone, and by doing so, it sure feels like everything is watered down to an agreeable compromise. Sorry, but there's no compromise on dignity and civil rights - EVEN IF 1/10, 1/3 or more than half of the nation thinks differently - it takes someone with a since heart for justice to just stand up and say something is wrong, and demand it be changed. I want to really believe he's that guy! He's night and day over McGrumpy, that's for sure. Very happy he's in, just hoping he addresses it all and doesn't have to regret things like Clinton did.

Barack has high popularity, a Congress that is pretty strongly Democratic, and yet, it's like the big things have to be bartered for, and depressed back to a DADT-type solution a la Clinton's early years.

I don't want that, and I'm not expert on all this, I'll admit that, but what I see I'm not thrilled about. There's great changes, but there's so much more that could be done, and yet, banks are getting hundreds of billions, and the war in Iraq is continuing for another year, and Afghanistan is going to get bigger...


This guy can do plenty of things at once. And one simple one is carving out a great speech to the nation about the dignity of ALL of her citizens and how many other countries around the world have Gay people openly serving, and we are strangely archaic by pretending they're not there, and also, making it seem like being Gay is a BAD ENOUGH THING THAT IT HAS TO BE BLIND!

Not a good lesson for the young adults, and I want it to END! Hopefully it will within a year.

[MessiahRp]

8. I really like Obama as a person and I support some of the changes he's made...

But those changes for the better have been few and far between a lot of the continuing of the same policies. Closing Gitmo was supposed to be a big deal but reopening the military commissions seems to negate any due process that many of these inmates deserve. Releasing torture memos seems interesting but continuing to protect Bush Administration officials even after they publicly attack you over it seems pretty stupid to me, not to mention the continuation of the illegal wiretapping. Talking about Iraq withdrawal doesn't mean much when you're planning to escalate in Afghanistan where even Gen. Petreaus has said there is no al-Qaeda operating.

Working on corporate regulations is good but giving billions away to scammer banks and AIG that are basically stealing this money while at the same time allowing the union heavy auto industry to collapse seems to defeat the purpose.

Giving a middle class tax cut seems nice but talking about messing with Social Security (which almost always means cuts/privatization) isn't a good sign.

And working on Health Care reforms is pretty useless when your plan hands over even more money and control to the very people that fucked the health care system up to begin with.

It just seems like most of the victories we've heralded in the first 100 days have been negated by a lot of the more of the same policy shit that protects the ruling class.

So when people get pissed about the so-called "change" we're supposed to be getting, of course there is serious validity to the frustration shown here and elsewhere.

We're not "concern trolls", we're genuinely concerned about how far to the right Obama seems to want to bend constantly to appease the people that will hate him regardless while ignoring the very voices that got him elected.

Rp

[truedelphi]

12. Yep what is most disturbing is how much he protects the

Ruling class. Last week, when the banks could have been forced by legislation to hold off on foreclosures, and thirteen Dems defeated that legislation, Obama did not pressure anyone at all. I guess he's not all that into promoting agenda for us working stiffs. Just the elite.

He spoke of Geithner like the guy is his twin brother, Saturday night, at the Correspondants' Dinner.

And the Health Care Issue - don't get me started.

[NoPasaran]

66. Gee, did you hit your head a lot when you were a kid?

The FUNCTION of the government is to protect the ruling class. Now, various politicians might have different theories how best to accomplish that end, resulting in greater or lesser amounts of crumbs from Massa's table for folks like us, but any idea that there's going to be a radical reordering of society is laughable.

[truedelphi]

68. Sorry but what debate are you attempting to have here?

A person who presents himself, as Mr Obama did during the election process, as a "leader" and as someone who will bring "Change" should not have supporters who then refer to the staus quo.

What this country needs right now is an FDR. Or if we were as enlightened regarding sexual moress, as the Europeans are, an Elliiot Spitzer.

FDR said that it was less dangerous to befreend organized crime than organized banking. He understood that when the country is in the throes of a Depression,yhou need real leadershipo, not namby pamby politics for the rulling elite.

Even Nixon understood that, in fact.

As far as my nomination to Spitzer on account of his leadership, view it here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#30712113
And then select the last video on that playlist (with his name on it)

[Dragonfli]

70. Hi TD - You may not remember the conversation...

but it is no longer too early to tell.

I can no longer hold out hope or conclude anything other than our president is a corporate centrist that is more enemy than ally to "we the people."

It makes our job in some respects much more difficult than if we had an honestly marketed corporate republican fighting us. A flim flam man can influence our allies if they believe him and thus make unity much harder.

Conquer and divide, promise and renege.
A very unfortunate situation we find ourselves in isn't it my friend?

[truedelphi]

77. You can always count on a dragonfli to know

Which way the wind is blowing!

:toast:

[Hawkowl]

91. One term president

I think it is highly likely Obama is going to turn into a one turn president. Why? Precisely because he IS SUPPORTING THE RULING CLASS! And they will throw him under the bus and stab him in the back faster than he can mumble "tax cuts". They will always prefer a true, cold-blooded, ruthless corporatist like Bush, Cheney or Reagan.

By not supporting what the middle class insists upon, i.e; ending the wars and universal health-care (not universal health insurance), he will not get people to turn out for him next election. Especially since the economy is still headed right down the freaking crapper faster than Montezuma's revenge on an American tourist. As for the "progressive" vote, he'll have no chance in hell.

He seems to forget that Bill Clinton only won with his "third way" because Perot split the republican vote. Giving the choice to vote for a real republican and a fake, Dem, corporate, republican lite....well.

I'm still giving President Obama the benefit of the doubt for one year. I realize it takes time to get a grip on the federal government and the military, let alone the most powerful people on the earth: Wall Street bankers. Right now he has to pick his battles and probably work behind the scenes. So, whatever he needs to do, he has my support for one year. THEN i WANT TO SEE SOME GODDAMNED RESULTS!

[truedelphi]

95. I don't know if I should admire your leniency or

SHower you with disdain.

Other people in lesser offices understand that you cannot hand Wall Strreet some nine trillion dollars fromk Main Street and expect anything but misery to occur.

We don't have another year of BailOuts to hand to Wall Street - as it is, each and every man and woman and child ahs given away $ 30,000 of monies to Wall Street, and except for the 700 Billion dollar stim bill, there is not much likelihood that anything in the way of jobs will come from it.

Sadly and perhaps worst of all is the lack of oversight.

It is a shame that Rep. Alan Grayson (D) from Florida has to rail against the Geithner and Bernanke people, knowing that the President and head of his own party have done little to support the needs of his constituents. While Obama is about to come to us for more BailOuts, Grayson gets it and says, "No more. No more."

You might want to check out Grayson in action:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJqM2tFOxLQ

[MrSlayer]

10. You're going to be pissed at him but you'd be even more pissed with the other guy.

That's really the only choice you get. I'm sure President Obama would personally love to change the status-quo on all those issues but he can't. They aren't going to let him. They'll let him go so far and do a few things to help us out but they're never going to go for a true universal healthcare program, they might let him get DADT eventually but they are never giving up the wars and they are never giving up the for-profit health system. Obama was easily the better choice because at least he will resist the owners of the country as much as he can. McCain would have let them continue on exactly as Bush was doing and it might have been worse. But either way, what truly needs to be done will never be done.

[elocs]

17. Yes, that's pretty much it. We don't each get to have our own customized President

who would do things exactly the way we think they should be done. I do think that President Obama would have a much easier time here at DU if he allowed DUers to make all important decisions for him. I am coming to believe that this whole president thing is much more difficult and complicated than we think it to be although it is easy for us to tell Obama what he should or should not do.

[Reterr]

81. This is such bullshit you are peddling

Your ilk reduces every argument any concerned citizen makes to a petty "Oh waaaah you don't get exactly what you want and so you are bitching".
It isn't about getting exactly what one wants...for many people they are disturbed by a lot of what they see from mainstream Dems. What should they do if they still believe they live in a representative democracy? Not even voice their displeasure to their elected officials and yes also vent on a message board.

Oh yes...I know..it is just a stupid message board. No one is paying attention blah blah blah...Then why do glorious, brilliant pragmatists like most of you even grace it with your exalted presence? Shouldn't you be doing something much more valuable with your erudite, brilliant self?

I will agree that most of it isn't only Obama's fault or the fault of any one Democrat. But sticking one's head in the sand about many of the egregious systemic problems in just about every branch of governance in this country is not a solution to anything.

Also you know what, most of you self-styled pragmatists on this board have been wrong about just about every fucking thing up until after the fact. A few years ago you types were saying "There is no recession...there is no economic crisis." A few years before that it was how there is no climate or general environmental crisis. All in self-important capitals a lot of the times to boot.

Give me a fucking break :eyes:. Most of the self-styled pragmatists on this board are the biggest fucking morons I have ever come across.
It is a testament to the power of group think and a fascinating phenomenon sociologically speaking, that most of you seem to be able to convince others that you are the voice of sanity or anything close to it given your disastrous track record, just by sneeringly asserting how pragmatic and intelligent you are. You are as much of a joke as any stereotypical "far lefty" who considers anyone to the right of Kucinich a Republican.


One problem with many of the "far lefty" responses on this board to you people is that people tell you types that you are cold-hearted DINOs/Repukes etc. Whereas what they should point out is that you are mostly self-important morons who don't actually know anything about anything, but through the sheer power of your obnoxious online personalities try to shut people up.

I will gladly admit I don't know a whole lot about anything but science, but at least I know that. Most of you I suspect don't fucking know anything about anything except being self-important jackasses. Oh but *you* are the pragmatic Dems...
Bull fucking shit...

Oh and also, please stop buying your own BS about how the "pragmatists" on this board are any less stereotypical or any less prone to group think than anyone you dub as "far lefty". After reading this board even for a brief while, for most of you, just as much as any other group here, one can predict the responses to just about any fucking thing without even clicking on the user name. And yet you are the ones most loudly proclaiming what rugged individualists you are who are just not prone to groupthink like all those other people...

Again bullshit...

[GreenPartyVoter]

82. I think it's sad that we even have to preface our concerns with "I love Obama, but..." or "I love

the Dems, but"

It reminds me of people doing similar things when dealing with the jingoistic crowd. Even if they don't say "I love America" or "God Bless America" every other minute they are wearing flag pins. And if they are saying these things or wearing the pins simply to keep people off their backs or to show their "loyalty," it is a truly sad thing. :(

I dunno. I am just disturbed by the whole deal.

[Zenlitened]

88. K&R for this response!

:applause: :yourock: :applause:

[spoony]

11. Does this mean that you'll

be receiving bullshit "didn't get your pony" posts now, too?

[LostinVA]

31. Or maybe even

How poutragious!

[FrenchieCat]

13. Me, I'm simple. I'm hoping he comes out of his speech in Egypt alive.

He has the lowest approval rating there.

With Cheney on the fucking TeeVee everywhere talking about how we are now less safe, I'm wondering if Cheney's paid some terrorists off to blow shit up somewhere.....

I think Barack Obama is taking plenty chances in a whole lot of ways that can't begun to be appreciated as of just yet. Guess he'll have to be dead before folks will come to the realization that he was only one man, able to only do 10 things at a time, not 20...and do them in a climate full of hatred and little moral integrity.

So I ain't gonna get pissed...as long as I see change, even if it ain't all coming at once.

But I understand.

[SamCooke]

14. I wish he'd just cancel that trip along with the ASU trip.

I didn't know they hated him hin Egypt tho. WHy did he pick Egypt then? THe Turkey speech seemed to be alright.

[FrenchieCat]

15. He picked it exactly because he has his lowest approval rating there.....

Guess this makes his speech that much more meaningful....talking to those who don't necessarily agree with him like he likes to do?

His highest is in Jordan.

His approval in Egypt is at 35%....so it ain't like "Hate, hate"....just not a lot of love!

Here's the info.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/05/obamas_arab_ratings_sixnation.html


But that Dick Cheney is bugging the shit out of me. You know, there are still some that are saying that 9/11 was an inside job anyways.....

Seeing Dick all over the airwaves makes me think that the neocons have something up their sleeves!

I just pray all goes well.

But that's why I don't demand perhaps, but rather ask by writing letters and try to understand why he is doing what he is doing. In terms of DADT, he made a campaign promise, and so I know he'll keep it. Hell, I'll just be happy if he lasts long enough to keep all of his promises....to be honest! I know it is a terrible thing to say, but I do think that way. After all, he's pissing off an awful lot of folks. :(

[SamCooke]

18. I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job, but I do believe Dick and Co. are planning

something similar on American soil. just so he can say I told u so.

[Enthusiast]

23. I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job

but administration insiders knew it was coming and took steps to allow it to happen with no interference. These are the greatest traitors our country has ever known.

[Enthusiast]

22. Like you, I'm thinking that Cheney would

do anything.

[babylonsister]

28. Stop it.

Stop with the 'dead' talk.

I do realize there's lots we're not privy to, but this DADT makes no sense to me. Why does he need to think about it?

But his moral integrity, imo, remains in tact (except for that/DADT). Give me a reason so I do understand.

I know he has the weight of the world on his shoulders, and I do understand, but I get really discouraged reading about what could be and isn't happening.

:(

I'm still a fan, but I'm allowed to be angry.

And war? Don't get me started, because I don't know what he knows, but I'm not getting it, and am not patient (especially after the past 8 years) without a really good explanation. I know, that was in his campaign, but maybe we need another barnburner speech to explain to us wtf we're doing there.

[okieinpain]

40. wow. I voice of sanity. I highly agree with you. well done. n/t.

[cboy4]

106. You're such an actress

:rofl:

[Window]

16. You'd really be pissed with McCain/Palin. n/t

[Lex]

42. We have Obama and a duty to hold him to the agenda HE said he'd pursue.

McCain/Palin is irrelevant to this.

[Two Americas]

56. this argument just does not work

This is like excusing incompetent fire fighters because "at least they are better than the arsonists."

If we need to compare Democrats to McCain or Palin in order to make them look good, we are in trouble. You may think you are defending the administration, but you are actually damning them by faint praise. That is no sort of support - it is worse than none at all.


...

[cyclezealot]

19. We all have our issues. Ours is trade.

The economy is not going to get better until we resolve our unfair trade conditions. He said he will not revise our trade policies. If the economy does not improve. We are all sunk. The country and the party.. What good is Obama if the economy does not improve.. With the US approaching a trillion dollar trade deficit annually. The economy won't improve.

[livefreest]

20. let's all march on Washington, DC and call on Pres Obama from the Lincoln Memorial

to implement single-payer health care

[newview88]

21. Wow you'd think he's been in office for more than 3 years with all this animosity

So who ARE you going to be supporting since you're threatening to jump ship on Obama?

[zipplewrath]

26. Wow, how orwellian

You describe that post as "animonsity"? The guy expresses "love" for Obama but outlines some specific concerns on specific issues. No wonder some supporters get characterized as being involved in a messiah complex.

[babylonsister]

27. I threatened what? I threatened nothing.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

[newview88]

64. Wow now you're getting personal with me for asking a question...

You said you would not be supporting him if he didn't act soon, that is what I would call a threat sorry if you feel I used the wrong word. I didn't mean to offend with it was just asking a simple question.

And for the record, I do not have a reading comprehension problem...thanks for asking.

[LostinVA]

32. You should have been here during the Primaries

The OP just TRASHED Obama. You should go do some searches on her posts so you can see just how much she didn't support Obama back then.

Go, little one. Go look it up!

[babylonsister]

34. ...

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

35. ...

You can't make this stuff up!

[Born_A_Truman]

60. Bwaaaaaaaaa!

Hang in there Sister! I want DADT gone too.

[newview88]

62. ....

Actually I was here in the primaries, just because I didn't post doesn't mean I wasn't here. I never stated that the OP was not a huge supporter little one, I simply asked who they would be supporting if they jump off the Obama ship as the OP did state would occur if Obama didn't act immediately. Why is that off limits to ask?

[OwnedByFerrets]

52. In three years it will be to late to change or affect policies

enacted NOW. :crazy:

[Zenlitened]

80. This is the essential point that the "Shhh! Have faith!" crowd...

... either can't or won't acknowledge.

Keep quiet now, but you're free to share an opinion once it's too late to matter???

Baffling. And more than a little bit spooky. :hide:

[Proud Liberal Dem]

84. Exactly

Now that Obama has "failed" (most of us here at DU) after his first 100 days, I guess we should start looking for another more attractive candidate to groom for the 2012 primary who will give us EVERYTHING WE WANT WHEN WE AT DU WANT IT!!!! :eyes:

I have a feeling that there is a much larger strategy going on with Obama and that it is nowhere near coming into full view. Unless he has truly become "punch-drunk" with power and popularity and has totally lost touch with his humble, community organizer roots, I just have a hard time believing that Obama has become a loafer licking corporatist. I could be wrong, I suppose, but..............:shrug: I love the guy but I sure as hell don't envy him given how he's managed to drive the right-wing into a foaming frenzy and apparently severely alienated progressives here and elsewhere. Amazingly, however, he has maintained a healthy +/-60% overall job approval rating. I guess the American people either are ignorant of Obama's corporatist infatuations, they support a more corporatist agenda, or maybe are just happy to have somebody who seems intelligent, honest, and, most of all, competent, as POTUS? :shrug: Frankly, the more that he manages to piss everybody off the more likely he is actually doing something right.

[newview88]

90. Well said.

You put into words exactly my thoughts. I don't believe he's perfect or hasn't messed up or won't disappoint in the future...however the chants of "If you don't do this right now then I can no longer support you" seem rather unfair...but maybe that's just me.

[Forkboy]

93. That's just fucking stupid.

Try harder next time, will you?

[uponit7771]

24. I gave Bush more time than you're giving Obama, there ...I said it.

[OwnedByFerrets]

51. And that makes you smart???? NOT

[Starry Messenger]

55. What?

:crazy: Bush wasn't a real President. He was a meat-puppet placeholder that was there to do Cheney's bidding. Isn't that why this website was started?? Now we all have a chance to get America back on track to do the right thing because we have a REAL President. The only time I "gave Bush" was "how long until he totally fucks up". I didn't have to wait very long either.

Obama has the chance to do great things and we all want him to do well. The wars we are embroiled in need the expertise of all our fighting men and women. Ending DADT will be great and in the meantime Obama could be granting executive clemency to people who are under the threat of having their military career ended because of this bogus law.

There, I said it.

[Two Americas]

57. you then are the problem

Regardless of who is in office, this "giving them time" argument used against any and all critics is symptomatic of the passive and compliant mindset that is the root cause of the breakdown in our representative democracy.

You are admitting that your need for a powerful leader to follow is much more important to you than principles and ideals, that you are an obedient little follower watching for the right strong man to get behind. You gave Bush a chance, but that didn't work out, so you have now transferred your loyalty to a new figure head. Were you at one time telling critics of Bush to shut up and give the man a chance?


...

[Forkboy]

94. That doesn't say much for you.

:shrug:

[progressoid]

25. Now, now, I think you have to wait at least another hundred days before being critical.

Or is it a hundred months? :shrug:

[JohnnyLib2]

29. Well said in an even-handed way.

Rec.

[Hugin]

33. babylonsister?

Yes, I feel the same way.

[Tansy_Gold]

43. Me, too.

:hi:

[DemReadingDU]

54. me too

[Thrill]

36. Holbrooke is a Diplomat. Why would be able to answer Military question like that?

[babylonsister]

39. He's the inside guy for the president. If he can't answer this,

who could/would? Did you notice Kerry lauding him for an honest answer?

I'm all for honesty, and do hope they might be rethinking what they're doing in light of that answer.

I'm just sick of war-beyond sick.

[Thrill]

46. I doubt it. He's a diplomat. I think Gates or Mullen would be better to ask for Military strategy.

Did you see when Gates and Mullen were announcing the commander switch? And a reporter asked if Holbrooke had anything to do with this. And they both looked at her like she was a damn fool. When Mullen answered, he seemed insulted by the question.

[Clio the Leo]

37. One of the things I love about this board.....

.... is watching how each of us has our hot button issues. How we can be fine with some things, very upset at others.

I feel very superficial that my main hot button issue involves mens business wear and it's inappropriate use of it.

Oh well, that and church .... but I cant vent about that here. lol

[babylonsister]

38. Men's business wear?

Yes, I know you're in the fashion industry, but I have to say, that struck my funny bone! :rofl:

[Two Americas]

59. why promote the framing the opposition uses against us?

This idea of "hot button" issues and people being "upset" is the contemptuous and dismissive way that the opposition characterizes the principles and ideals we are fighting for in order to mock and ridicule us. Why would you repeat these ideas?

"Men's business wear?" That is how you see the importance of issues such as illegal wars, torture, the health care crisis, people losing their jobs and homes, people being persecuted and denied equal rights? Shameful.


...

[Sparkly]

41. I'm interested in the replies

that make it all seem like which team you're for, or which Beatle you like best, as though it all came down to that.

I'm talking about the leaps from disagreement with Obama to ANYthing about McCain. Those arguments made sense during the general election campaign, when it was about ballots, but not now.

I'm talking about, "So who are you supporting now?" Where does this come from?!

We're onto policy, people. We're past the campaigns now.

[Lex]

45. Exactly. The "so you must like McCain" replies are pure idiocy.

nt

[vaberella]

44. I have issues with DADT----but I'm giving him some more time on this.

I do know that once he does do something, no one will give him any credit for it.

[Lex]

48. Why would no one give him credit for it if he does it?

nt

[vaberella]

49. Has he been given cred for anything?

Most of the time it's, "O has made a move on this because of pressure from another source." "He's reluctant to do anything unless someone is pushing him."

I disagree with this mentality but that's what will be done. It's been done before and it will happen again. If you don't believe me...watch this board. When in actuality O has been fighting for gay rights for a long damn time.

It's like when the whole prop 8 happened. Do you know people here called him a homophobe until it came out that O wrote a letter to the State of California asking for them to remove that choice from the ballot because it violated the civil rights of gay peoples. And to this day there are people who still call him various disturbing names---them and Black people because Black people were the ones to blame for prop 8. Blacks make up only a 10th of the population.

[Two Americas]

75. that cannot be helpful

Obama got our votes, our time, and our money. That is what support means in the real world.

All politicians respond to pressure. That is how things work in a representative democracy. That is not a slam on Obama. All politicians are cautious and are vulnerable to pressure from wealthy and powerful interests. That is not a slam on Obama, either.

It is malicious and false to imply that people here, people whom you derided in your opening paragraph, called Obama a homophobe.

It is malicious and false to paint advocates for GLBTQ rights and equality as racists, or as making racist remarks, or to say that people have been calling Obama names here.

Of course here and there some unfortunate things do get posted. The membership is large, and sooner or later just about everything gets posted by someone. But you are taking some isolated remarks - if they even exist - and using that to create the illusion that there is some sort of war going on here between the GLBTQ community and the AA community and that we must all choose sides. Nothing could be more destructive.

Why are you throwing gasoline on the fire? Do you really think that is supporting the president?



...

[Orsino]

63. It's not my time to give him.

I'll try to be understanding about strategy and stuff, but I have to side with the Americans whose rights are being denied.

He's already proven that he's much smarter than I am. It's just a shame that his strategy for gettign us to equality (if there is one) looks so much like the status quo.

[nichomachus]

47. Never "love" a politician

That is the fastest way to lose any sense of proportion. Politicians are politicians are politicians. Some are better than others. Some are way better than others. But the minute you turn your support into teeny-bopper fan club "loving," you are setting yourself up to be suckered.

[AspenRose]

67. A hard truth, but truth nevertheless.

[Reterr]

97. Very true.eom

[OwnedByFerrets]

50. I'm sorry that you have had to post this......

but glad that you are seeing the truth.

:grouphug:

[avaistheone1]

58. I'm impressed babylonsister.

You have really searched your heart. I know how strongly you support the president.
I support the president too, but principles always come first with me.

Now I just hope Obama will act so we will not all be disappointed.

[Orsino]

61. The politician that gathered that huge coalition together last year...

...is not the one who will end DADT quickly. America is still profoundly homophobic. Overt support of LGBT equality will cost the president support, because the wingnuts will make sure that happens. I get this.

I hate it, but I get it.

[Kajsa]

65. Ken Salazar- Secretary of the Interior,

so far, so bad!

:(

President Obama, why did you pick this man?

He doesn't give a flying damn about the Endangered Species Act.

http://tinyurl.com/pbjqql

[Reterr]

85. Yeah that was one spectacularly awful choice

Similar to Geithner and all those Goldman morons.

I have hope that Obama will still deliver overall if he follows through on stuff like this (and if it is done right, not just talk):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/business/14regs.html?_r=1&hp

and a decent climate change bill. But no gold stars till he does. Talk is cheap...

[Kajsa]

92. I hope he follows through on this too, Reterr.

I think he will.

:)

[AnneD]

72. I had buyer's remorse....

when he named his Treasury Sec. I knew we were going nowhere.

The public coffers are still being depleted, guilty people are still not being prosecuted, it is still ok to torture, and polar bears are not endangered.


Yeah, buyer's remorse.

[Thickasabrick]

73. Russia's history in Afghanistan should have been studied more - we

will not win there. It's going to be like Vietnam...except longer and more expensive.

[Two Americas]

74. that took courage

I hope people don't gloat or attack you.

You have my support to work through things and arrive at the truth as you see it without being badgered or maligned.



...

[rosesaylavee]

76. Here are some points on DADT

that NoElephants was kind enough to respond to me the other day when I was all for waiting for Obama to gain consensus.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3867863&mesg_id=3869551

Patience is important as it has only been a few months. However, as NoElephants points out, Truman did what was right with an executive order re integrating the troops. He did not wait for consensus on what was so obviously a wrong in hindsight but I am sure caused quite a stir at the time. DADT is just wrong and is causing a lot of needless suffering and hardship among our troops. It's just wrong and needs to end.

[Bryn]

78. I completely understand.

:grouphug:

I am frustrated, too.

[donheld]

79. He doesn't piss me off so much as he worries me

He seems to be listening to too many voices. But he doesn't seem to be listening to us. His base.

[leftofthedial]

83. welcome to the kool-aid-free zone.

[Bjorn Against]

86. Thanks Babylonsister.

The frustration you are feeling is felt by many others who see great potential in Obama but fear he is moving in the wrong direction on some key issues. The only way to influence our government is to speak out, and I applaud you for doing so. I am sure this was not easy for you to post, but I greatly admire you for doing so.

[democrat2thecore]

99. I agree - this isn't about personalities - it's about POLICY

And some of these things coming from this administration....unfathomable. It's not a matter of "Well, it's better than McCain or Bush or Palin or fill-in-the-blank," it's a matter of keeping your word. The health care talks going behind closed doors Obama SPECIFICALLY singled out in his campaign as the reason for no bill in the mid 90's under Clinton. He promised every single health care discussion would be televised on C-Span under an Obama administration. Uh...hello?

To go anywhere with a health care bill and leave multitudes of payers and leave for-profit private health insurance in business is a no-go. It will be the biggest missed opportunity in decades, all for maintaining good relations with big health care profiteers.

The WAR? No comment without losing sleep tonight.

It should be OKAY to discuss these issues. It is our DUTY to discuss these issues.

[Mass]

87. How do you dare? You must be a Clinton supporter bitter because he won?

Or an crazy leftie who is never satisfied by anything.

Really! How do you dare?

(:sarcasm: of course, and I agree with you totally).

[PufPuf23]

89. I have the same three concerns

war, health care, and civil rights.

Also I think the economic approach is bass-ackwards with the wrong people in charge and setting policy.

But POTUS Obama is the only politician I have ever sent cash and he is our best hope for the foreseeable future.

[Two Americas]

98. profit motive

Were it not for a profit motive, and benefits that go to only a few, war, health care, and civil rights would not be the concerns that they are, so really having the wrong people in charge and setting policy on economics is the most important concern.

There is big money to be made off of war, illness, and the denial of human rights. That is what the "other side" on those issues is about.


...

[Forkboy]

96. Some of the responses here should be enlightening to you.

You make a valid point against Obama and look at some of the replies you get.

Now, I say this respectfully (honestly), but think back to your post last week hinting that Admins should keep track of who rec's so-called negative threads to see who really supports Obama. By that logic, you'd now be under the scope of the Admins. Now you see first hand what a fine line it is between being a supporter of Obama while still trying to criticize things you see wrong in his Administration.

[stillcool]

100. I don't know what my problem is..

perhaps it's a lack of expectations. I don't expect rapid, sweeping 'change' to occur in our government, and certainly not at the hand of any one person. The power entrenched in our government will not recede, and hand over the reins after a hundred years. I would like to think that incremental change will happen, is already happening.. not because of Obama, but because circumstances require it...and for any modicum of positive change I am grateful. I wish I had more power to affect change. The thing is I know I do, but haven't realized it yet. It probably has nothing to do with politics.

[Forkboy]

104. One of the more insightful posts I've read today.

:thumbsup:

[TexasObserver]

101. Yeah, me too.

Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[zulchzulu]

102. Be vigilant... that's what the real lesson is

There are so many issues at hand that are important. However, there is always the reality of what's more important to do first as well as what needs to be done first before other things can come.

DADT is stupid. Should it be front and center now? In my view, no.

Single Payer Healthcare should happen. Will it come first instead of an incremental approach? No.

The wars that Obama inherited won't just go away like switching off an appliance. There is much to be done and myriads of layers of complexity that need to be unraveled and made whole again in time. Will all wars end like turing off your Wii when you're done? No.

Stay involved. Be vigilant. But remember that Obama is absolutely correct that it takes time to turn a big ship around.

[democracy1st]

103. kick

[cooolandrew]

107. I think we're just underestimating President Obama on so many fronts we need patients good things >

are coming. We just have to relax a little on our side. He's always fives steps ahead of most of us.. we'll see, I'm very sure.

[cboy4]

108. PUMA!

HA!