About Obama not releasing the photos -

[jillan]

Poll question: About Obama not releasing the photos -

Lots of discussion back and forth here -

let's see the numbers.

[BlooInBloo]

1. More info, plz.

[Muttocracy]

2. I need more time/info - but I wish Obama hadn't said he was about to release them

and then taken it back. I haven't followed all the twists and turns of this.

I lean toward releasing them, but IF they're going to be used as evidence for something useful, then that makes sense. I'm afraid it's just going along with the military/neocon story that it will make us less safe :shrug:

[depakid]

5. Puts a little stain on his credibility, eh?

[Cha]

17. No.

stupid snark.

[depakid]

20. Of course it does- whenever a leader goes back on his word, people question what they say

Personally, I haven't trusted the guy to keep his word since the day of the Portland rally, where he repeatedly called for universal health care- because that's not what he proposed. Sure got a lot of applause though.

[Cha]

16. Things change..like more information

that we don't know about.

[Muttocracy]

19. yeah, I just wish whoever's working for Obama on this

had seen that factor coming

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

3. thank you for posting this poll, I hope more people will vote

I voted.

[jillan]

6. Maybe if we can get this on the greatest, more people will.

I was debating with myself if I should post this in gd or gdp.

[Uzybone]

4. I don't need to see them, but need more info

We already know what is in them, and eventually they will come out.

[Old Hank]

7. Was there opposition here to his previous promise to release the photos?

I assume that when Obama promised to do the opposite (that is, to release the photos), most of the people here criticized him.
Is that the case?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lostnotforgotten]

8. Obama Massive Fail - Torture Cover Up - So Much For Transparency We Can believe In

eom

[liquid diamond]

11. Cover up? We already know the bush admin tortured.

[Jennicut]

14. Yeah but you forgot that this poster has totally declared Obama as a failure and the truth just

it gets in the way of their little meme. Anyway, I think the photos need to be released. If not now then at a later date. And no I don't think Obama is a total failure. It just needs to happen, why hide it? I know he is afraid of more backlash and the torture memos are going to turn into a Dem witch hunt by desperate Rethugs but it needs to come out.

[lostnotforgotten]

24. Obama Massive Fail - Claimed The Transparent Presidency - Right, Change We Can Believe In

eom

[liquid diamond]

32. So don't vote for him in 2012....no politician is going to fulfill your

every desire.

[Jennicut]

40. You just repeated yourself. Nothing new to say?

"Massive quadruple utter totally fail"

[AllieB]

9. If there were children in those pictures, the outrage globally would be incredible.

I think they should be released regardless of the content. I'm disappointed in President Obama.

[liquid diamond]

12. What good would that do?

[vaberella]

15. I think I would be uncomfortable seeing or knowing that children were involved. n/t

[AllieB]

10. Woops dupe.

[ZombieHorde]

13. Hard for me to vote, I am about 75% in favor of releasing the photos.

The photos with children should be released.

[ZombieHorde]

37. I meant to say the photos with children should NOT be released. NT

[Lex]

18. They need to release them. And I don't do "blind trust," not even with Obama.

nt

[debbierlus]

21. He should release them. We have had nothing but a huge media disinformation around torture

Yes, there could be fallout from the release of photos, HOWEVER, if the President released the photos and clearly explained that this was to shed light on the truth and ensure that these types of barbaric acts would not be done again, he could turn it into a opportunity to heal this horrible past.

Then, he would HAVE to follow up with full investigations and criminal prosecutions of those who broke the law.

This is not rocket science. The government covers things up to protect itself, not the people.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

This nation needs a huge wake up slap. We just friggin MURDERED 1 million Iraqi citizens on lies and we want to close our eyes and make it go away. This ostricich approach won't work in the long run.

[CakeGrrl]

22. What will THESE photos do that the previous have not accomplished to those ends

other than satisfying the voyeuristic instincts of people who just want to see the pictures?

Why would releasing the photos make him HAVE to follow up? An aside, this is not Obama's personal job to do. It's for the Justice Department.

Allowing millions of new eyes to view them doesn't change the work that has to be done in the courts. How will you or I seeing them make the process move any further in the direction of prosecution?

Only if the process depends on a groundswell of public opinion would there anything significant to gain in releasing them.

The key is taking the steps to build a legal case. The president doesn't just go waving the pictures around in front of the bad guys saying their day of reckoning has arrived. These thugs would not go quietly along and hold out their hands to be cuffed. I don't pretend to know how convoluted and dirty the politics of who ordered what and who has the most to lose has become.

[LooseWilly]

36. At this point I think that groundswell you mention is precisely what's required...

... to make prosecutions go forward. I haven't heard word one from Holder, after Obama passed the ball to him on the prosecution issue, about what may or may not happen. A public outcry, on the other hand... might force them to do something, rather than what feels like a "wait and hope they forget about it" strategy...

Holder's obviously not going to "build a legal case" himself. He's the AG... and the DoJ is directly implicated... he can't direct this "case" himself... that would be ridiculous. He'd need to appoint an independent investigator... and I haven't heard any word about inclination to do so. If Obama were trying to "build a politically sound position from which to launch an investigation", then the release of the photos could only help.
The idea that Obama want's to force the courts to force him to release them in order to set a precedent is seeming less plausible the more I think of it. The idea that he's trying to buy time and put off the outcry while he works on something... well, I'm not aware of anything liable to come up any time in the next week or two... and putting this off more than that seems just plain dumb.

I can't help but think that someone convinced him of some bullshit idea of national dishonor or something... as if admitting the truth would harm our national "rep"...

[moondust]

23. Let SCOTUS do it.

Group decision. No backlash.

[opihimoimoi]

26. Turly got it fucked up....Obama said it was to protect our troops still there

He is open for release at a time not conducive to more troop attacks...

thats what i think.....and see.....

[sandnsea]

27. I think he could have selected a small number

to make it fully clear what happened, but not so many as to blow the lid off Pakistan. Or he could wait until the court orders it so that he can continue having the goodwill of the majority of Americans.

[jillan]

28. That makes total sense.

He could've released just a few.

Has Kerry said anything about Obama's change of heart?

[sandnsea]

29. lol, I love your sig line

It is so true!! :rofl:

I haven't seen anything from JK on it. I imagine he will try to get a better handle on Obama's reasoning before he says anything.

If I were looking at Pakistan right now, I'd sure be careful about potential sparks.

[jillan]

30. Haha - It helps me deal with the guilt of sitting here when I should be cleaning.

:eyes:

[quiller4]

34. Yes. He expressed his support today. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

31. I think he had good reason not to, and I would have preferred he release them. nt

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[Raine]

35. I trust that Obama has good reasons for his decisions. nt

[mystieus]

38. The forum is pretty much split. I voted not to release the photos

[CTyankee]

39. What is "more information"? Isn't this just plain?

While my heart goes to Obama my head says that not releasing the photos goes against our right to know what was done by our government in our name.

Someone tell me how more information is going to change that.

[old mark]

41. I agree with Obama. He changed his mind after consultation with

military leaders.
Does anyone imagine he didn't anticipate all this bullshit reaction from the left? Yet he did it anyway. He is doing his job.

I suggest we let him do it.

mark

[TexasObserver]

42. Ike understood that photographing and showing the holocaust was essential.

The same rationale applies to these photos. If we want to stop the US for torturing, we have to acknowledge the horrible misconduct done in our name. If we want the public and the world to know we repudiate the evil that was the Bush/Cheney administration, we have to make full disclosure to the world.

Obama is wrong on this one.

[Sebastian Doyle]

43. No more coverups. Ever.

Prosecute these fucking bastards, and/or allow another country to do it (Spain or whomever)

The rest of the world has seen these fucking pictures. You can bet your ass that the Muslim world has seen these pictures. So the argument that "censorship of the pictures prevents future attacks against Americans" is 100% bullshit.

The only thing accomplished by censoring these pictures is to prevent the American people from knowing what despicable crimes have been committed in our name. Or at least the American people who are either too lazy, too stupid, or merely too misinformed by the corporate whore media to find the truth for themselves.

And sadly, that's most of them. :evilfrown: