I agree with Obama about the photos

[Nancy Waterman]

In the first place, I take him at his word. He is concerned about their inflammatory nature in the Muslim world.
Consider:

Pakistan is very fragile right now, and Obama is going to Egypt soon. What happens if he releases the photos and there is an eruption of anti-US violence in response to the inflammatory images? The Pakistani government is our ally. Would this further weaken them or perhaps lead to their downfall? Would this put Obama in danger during his travels?

I, for one, have seen enough photos after Abu Graib and am more interested in various information coming out, such as who said what to whom and when they said it (or wrote it) that got the whole thing going forward. I want an investigation into the facts. I think some form of prosecution will inevitably follow. I don't think the photos particularly contribute to this unfolding of information.

I am concerned that the Left, after 8 years of Bush, has Political PTSD (PPTSD): after being lied to and manipulated and betrayed so much, it doesn’t take much for us to be distrustful. Personally, I trust Obama, and I don't question his motives, though at times, I disagree with him. Regarding the photos, I do agree with him, and I don't feel it necessary to determine motives other than the ones he has stated: a concern about the inflammatory nature of the photos. If we lived in a bubble and it were only about the people in this country seeing them, it would be different. But everything goes into the global information pool instantly, and he has been working hard to shift the international climate. The visual imagery of the photos could harm what he has accomplished thus far, whereas the uncovering of the facts will not.

[Booster]

1. I'm trusting Pres. Obama on this one also, but if our government

has copies of these pictures, you can bet others do also, so, again, we are the only ones in the dark; the rest of the world already knows most likely.

[Thrill]

2. I agree with him too. I just don't see the upside in releasing them.

Thats my opinion. I certainly see plenty of downside

[ronnykmarshall]

3. DUCK!

[rudy23]

4. Fine then--release them to a special prosecutor, and let the law work without showing the pics

Your point only covers his decision to not expose the pictures to the world. No effort has been made by Pres. Obama, or his defenders on this, to explain why we should sweep torture under the rug, and let those who authorized it go free.

[ksoze]

5. bingo

[scheming daemons]

10. Geezus you're dense

"why we should sweep torture under the rug, and let those who authorized it go free."


If he was sweeping it under the rug, the MEMOS WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN RELEASED.


As for releasing them to a special prosecutor... THERE ISN'T ONE YET! If Congress creates one, THEN you'll have a point.

[rudy23]

13. Exposing the memos without prosecution is not justice.

You may have a point that it's not exactly "sweeping it under the rug" because he has let the information out. Without prosecutions, this issue is still a he said/she said issue.

If the information is out, but no prosecutions result, I would argue that criminally, this issue was swept under the rug.

[zulchzulu]

51. So I am assuming you don't think the Justice Department and members of Judiciary Committee have...

... the evidence?

Do you think that the photos are some pictures picked up at a Walgreens and in some envelope in someone's dresser?

Additionally, going through the process of hiring a Special Prosecutor would mean YEARS before an investigation begins. Leak the evidence and make sure it's a mistrial. Duh!

Let's let the Judicial Committee groups as well as the Justince Department continue the investigations... which they are NOW.

By the way, it's unconstitutional for the Office of the President to do investigations. The Founding Fathers kind of figured that out some two hundred and twenty years ago.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Hiding facts is sure to make the world trust us more

Right

In fact we shouldn't prosecute soldiers when they rape and kill civilians because that will undermine all the good will Obama has built up.

We should hide them, instead.

Good thinking. very good thinking.

[Clio the Leo]

7. PPTSD indeed! Or as the wise philosopher once said.....

[mkultra]

8. I agree, middle east peace should be or new goal

These photos will be counter productive.

[Mz Pip]

9. I know I don't want to see

them, nor do I want one more service man or woman killed because of new outrage that could occur should they be released.

I do want the truth to come out and those responsible held accountable with prosecution. I want the justice dept to do its job and get the ball rolling on that.

[redqueen]

12. Such reasonableness cannot be tolerated!

;)

[jenmito]

11. So do I. And he's giving a speech in Egypt June 4th, where his approval is only 35%...

the lowest of all the Muslim countries. So the photos could put his very life in danger. I'm GLAD he chose to not release them at this time.

[Political Tiger]

14. I think your comment about Political PTSD is spot on!

You nailed it! :)

[scheming daemons]

16. I think so too... so many here have been so emotionally bruised by BushCo...

..that they think every occupant of the White House is the same.

[niceypoo]

15. They are probabally very ghastly

I understand his rationale but if the truth isn't shown it will just happen again.

If nothing is done, the Bush/Cheney torture policies will be the baseline for the next GOP fascists that come into office.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. I'm a good German. I knew nothing. I saw nothing. Don't blame me.

[redqueen]

18. I don't need to see it to know what was going on. (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Perhaps you don't. But the vast majority of us remain willfully ignorant.

[redqueen]

20. As long as that 'majority' isn't in charge of the investigation...

that's ok with me.

Their heroes are already on record.

"The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." - Sen. Lindsey Graham

[Warren Stupidity]

21. what investigation?

There is no investigation. You get back to me when there is an actual indictment.

[redqueen]

23. There is an investigation.

I won't be getting back to you. This isn't a game... but enjoy treating it like one.

[RetroLounge]

22. "their inflammatory nature in the Muslim world"

As opposed to our troops still being there?

How much more fucking inflamed can they get?

RL

[redqueen]

24. Has anyone bothered asking them what they think?

Asking the victims?

[RetroLounge]

34. So the victims determine whether or not we prosecute?

If the pics are so damn bad, then why are we not prosecuting right fucking now?

:shrug:

RL

[redqueen]

35. We're talking about releasing disgusting pictures, not investigation.

The investigation is going to happen. It's only a matter of time. It's already started, IMO, with these hearings.

As for the pictures, I'd think the people who will be most affected might deserve a say in whether they're released, yes.

[RetroLounge]

36. Yeah, lets find every one tortured

and we'll ask them...

:eyes:

RL

[redqueen]

37. Is that what I said?

Here, we do polls to find out what people think.

We might do something like that in the Middle East. Only a thought.

No need to get all eye-rolly and sarcastic.

But... I guess, if one doesn't have an argument... it'll have to do, right?

[RetroLounge]

39. Polls in the Middle East?

:rofl:

Okay, let me know how that goes...

RL

[mkultra]

26. if he released those photots, you would get to see.

The answer is a lot fucking more.

[redqueen]

28. As someone else mentioned elsewhere...

members of Congress came away from briefings needing barf bags.

Yes, a whole lot fucking more, indeed.

[Why Syzygy]

29. They should be

investigated by the FBI to see if they fit the criteria of 'snuff films'. At least a hundred prisoners were murdered.
Some twisted person(s) wanted that much gore.

[Why Syzygy]

25. Except it's a violation of laws

to withhold them. Two courts have already ruled for their release. FOIA.
Covering up torture is just as indictable as participating.

When he announced he would agree to release, did you disagree with his decision at that time?
If he's right now, he must have been wrong then?

[AngryOldDem]

27. Thank you.

We don't need to be privy to the reasoning behind every single decision Obama makes. This isn't Bush anymore -- I have the reassurance that much thought, consideration, and deliberation went in to how he decided to act.

The photos exist. We know atrocities and crimes were committed. That should be enough. Nothing good can come from empowering radical Islam right now. Nothing.

[Why Syzygy]

30. Except a president

who disobeys court orders would do much more to inflame them.

THIS IS A COURT CASE. It is NOT an Obama unilateral decision!

[Cha]

43. Prez Obama has this..

no need to get your knickers all twisted up in your chair.

[Why Syzygy]

44. He hasn't got sh*t without supporters. nt

[Cha]

45. He's got supporters..just

not you.

[Blue_Roses]

31. thank-you, thank-you, thank-you!

and I agree 100% on this issue:)

[Cha]

32. Rec'd~ Thank you so much for

this thoughtful OP, Nancy!

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our second quarter 2009 fund drive.
Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
New prizes daily!



No purchase or donation necessary. Void where prohibited. Click here for more information.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. We're you upset....

that the first pictures were released under Bush? Did you back Bush trying to keep other photos from being released so they wouldn't hurt our soldiers?

If not, then you are a damned hypocrite.

[Cha]

42. All you have is name calling

and your tough talk does you no good.

[goclark]

40. I agree with you ~ Obama continues to play chess and some

continue to not trust him.

We are abused children that have been lied to so many times, we can't trust anyone anymore.
That is a shame.

We do not have a clue what information and issues he is trying to decide on but since we stood by and let "My Pet Goat" be read upside down for 8 years, it's hard to believe that he is working for our country.

But that is just my opinion.

[jenmito]

41. Are the photos of Pelosi? Because she's all I'm hearing about today.

:shrug:

[sammythecat]

46. Oh God,

All I can say is I changed my mind on that one at least 5 times yesterday. This is betrayal -- no it's not, it's very clever strategy. Wow, Turley made some good points -- Turley's a fucking tool. The whole world needs to know we're not slipping anything under the rug -- If we show the photos now they'll be useless as evidence in the future.

Tonight, almost 9pm, I just don't fucking know. I feel like a yo-yo. :(

[LooseWilly]

47. I still don't buy the "they'll do too much damage" excuse.

The first release of photos was one thing... but those photos have had their effect... and I'm betting that most anyone, anywhere in the world, who claims to have been tortured by the US will be believed. I don't believe that more photos will have the same effect as those first photos on world opinion, troop safety, or anything else.

It's not like the Public in Iraq or Afghanistan, or wherever, is going to say "Ohh, I know you said you were tortured Bilal, and you showed me some of those old photos... but I didn't believe you. Now that I've seen these new photos though!! I'm fighting mad now... let's go kill us some US Soldiers!!"

That's what you're arguing though. And that's what Obama's arguing. It's ridiculous.

Letting the photos out to the public, and publicly announcing that there will be an investigation... that will not only not undermine Obama's efforts to shift the international climate... it would actually help those efforts.

[walldude]

48. If the photos are so bad that they would "inflame the Muslim world"

Then Obama better start changing his tune about "looking forward" and start "looking into and prosecuting". He can't have it both ways, with the information streaming out he's eventually going to need to start treating this like the crime it is.

[elleng]

49. Why does ANYONE have to see them?

We KNOW what went on. More is unnecessary, and ghoulish, imo.

Any useful EVIDENCE expected? I doubt it.

[Raineyb]

50. Well you're certainly entitled to be as wrong as Obama is on this subject.

Otherwise this is excuse making rubbish.

[TexasObserver]

52. No one will insist you look at them.

The disclosures are needed to help heal the body politic. These are heinous things, but acting as if they don't exist, or minimizing them by hiding them, is what I expect of the GOP, not our party.

The world has seen many of them we haven't. It's the USA that engages in censorship of offensive war photos, not everyone else. You can see better war news on Mexican TV news than on US TV news.

[Shanti Mama]

53. A friend of mine works out in the boonies in Afganistan and he agrees.

It is known, worldwide, that the photos exist, and that anal rape of young boys is depicted in some. This is the worst kind of insult (I can't think of the right word) in Islam and it requires retribution by most who are conservative Muslims. My friend feels his life and those of all he monitors, who are building roads, bringing water in, etc. will be in much greater danger if the photos are released. And he believes that retribution would likely precipitate terrorist acts.

My friend is not in the military. He's a liberal, through and through. He wants what's best for the Afgans. Releasing the photos is not in their best interests. He left today to head back for 3 more months of 24x7 time where the shit would really hit the fan. Educated Muslims want to eliminate the Taliban. The photos would set that goal back years, or much much worse.

[seaglass]

54. And how does bombing civilians into oblivion make the people of

Afghanistan feel - all warm and fuzzy towards the US?

The justification for non release of the photos is Bushian and not credible while civilians are still being arbitrarily killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Shanti Mama]

55. bombing civilians is not the only thing we do

This guy is risking his life, constantly, because he believes the US is, fundamentally helping Afghanistan. Believe it or not, most Afghans want us there, even when we do screw up.
Releasing the photos has NOTHING to do with bombing civilians.