Are we seriously going to let the media help the republicans skate while taking down one of our own

[Peacetrain]

From the one end of the country to the other, with the help of talk radio, even main stream media.. the republicans who supported and promted torture, are now turning their full vehemence on Nancy Pelosi..

They are aghast, agonizing on how she could have let torture happen// etc etc..

How in the hell did this happen, the perps have taken over the jail house and are trying the citizens for the crimes they committed.

They did this with the Clintons.. They have not been able to touch Obama YET.. so they are going after Nancy Pelosi.. to deflect off on to our party, their crimes.

Dear God we are not going to let this happen again are we?

Are we?

[Fresh_Start]

1. Sadly they played into the GOP's hands

when they took things off the table.
Time to reset the table.

[Binka]

40. Fuck Resetting The Table.... Yank The Tablecloth And Let The Dishes Fly

Maybe one or two will hit Bush & Cheney upside the head.

[Captain Hilts]

2. It's an ugly repeat. Uglier that people here are falling for it nt

[Peacetrain]

3. If they play us like this again, and we are so damn dumb

that we cannot recognize what they are doing, then there is no hope for us as a party..

[HowHasItComeToThis]

25. THE MEDIA IS ALWAYS REACTIONARY

AND OWNED

[Uzybone]

4. It sadly seems that way

some on the "left" are more comfortable going after democrats than republicans.

[SIMPLYB1980]

15. Yep would be nice if some people around here calling

Democrats fascists would get a nice big tombstone. It might even convince me to donate, as things are here right now with all the hate for our on party on this site, I don't know why I bother coming here lately.

[Crooked Moon]

5. no one can "get" pelosi

without getting the republicans complicit as well. shine the light on all of it.

if pelosi truly had no knowledge, that should be established in the course of a complete investigation.

to turn your subject line around somewhat, i have no interest in allowing one of our own to "skate" while taking down republicans involved in torture.

partisan affiliation should not be a consideration.

[rvablue]

6. I started feeling this way last night watching the cable news late night.

Couldn't believe what I was seeing/hearing.

Ari Fleishcher was on just spewing his lies and smears and Andy Cooper didn't question him on one point.

It really did give me bad flashbacks to the 90s.

And if we allow the GOP to succeed in this smear campaign, get ready for the same treatment on SCOTUS pick, health care, et. al.

It's time to hit back and hit back HARD!

[Peacetrain]

7. My thoughts exactly..they are pushing us hard from the right, to see if

we will fold like a cheap tent...

[LooseWilly]

48. I get the impression that Pelosi is holding firm.

When was the last time a Dem was willing to accuse the CIA of Misleading the Congress? And then call for an investigation?... if Pelosi keeps it up, and I don't see why she wouldn't, then the whole mess might well boomerang right back into Republican laps...

[FrenchieCat]

8. I was just thinking the same thing. Pelosi has opened up a door,

and our asses need to be walking through it and not allowing ourselves to get distracted.

I'm writing my ass off this morning, and I would suggest that others do the same.

If folks want to bite off a piece of our President's ass, by all means go ahead,
but the same folks need to be multi-tasking right fucking now, instead of whining
about what the President promised and didn't promise.

I'm sick of their shit, and I'm not taking it anymore!
We all need to be sick of this shit!
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[Peacetrain]

9. Me too.. I am not going to sit and watch another Democratic President, Congress

have to pay the price of what the republicans did. This is just crazy.. Thank you for the links, I am copying them and sending them forward.

[bdamomma]

22. let's hit back hard, enough is enough.

we do not have short memories!!!!!!

[jenmito]

10. No-like I said on the other thread-they should be talking about Ali Soufan-not Nancy Pelosi!

I was searching for Frenchie's list of numbers to call but I see she posted them here! :hi:

[Peacetrain]

13. You made a most excellent point Jen.. Cross referencing your thread

here..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8409890 :hi:

[jenmito]

16. Thanks, Peacetrain!

I just emailed and called MSNBC and CNN. :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

29. I was trying to find out why the Breathless Media didn't bother

to air that hearing as it was happening!

I just happen to catch it on C-Span 3.

When you have to "find" a hearing on C-Span 3, you know the media is not truly interested
in us following the hearings or the subject thereof.

[jenmito]

30. It got coverage for about 2 minutes that day...

and was never heard about again. The media really has no shame.

[Cha]

11. No we are not..the corporatemediawhores

are business as usual from what you say as I haven't watched them since 2002.

Fuck them..Nancy's not going to take the fall for bush.

[Thrill]

12. This happens all the time. The left either eats their own or Allow MSM and the Repukes

to flip narratives. This is what keeps Democrats from taking strong Liberal stances. After Obama released those torture memos. The Repukes dominated the airwaves with little strong opposition from Democrats

[walldude]

14. I don't see what the big deal is... If Pelosi goes down the Republicans go

down further. This was all a stupid ploy by the republicans to get the investigations dropped. It didn't work and it's not going to work. All this hand wringing is pointless. Plus now people are coming to Pelosi's aid.

[Adelante]

17. Nope

I'm typing my fingers off today. We cannot let them do this to us.

[The Magistrate]

18. Apparently, Ma'am, A Good Portion Of The Left Is Happy To Co-Operate With Rove In This

[Jennicut]

19. Which sickens me. Why oh why are some on the left playing into their hands?

Nancy Pelosi is a poor Speaker, not the greatest politician but its obvious she is being made to be a scapegoat. The one thing is, if Nancy is so so guilty then where does that leave Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove and co? They are stupidly admitting that torture happened. We need to emphasize that. Dems are too nice, we need to fight fire with fire.

[The Magistrate]

23. It Must Be Kept In Mind, Ma'am, That Some On The Left View Democrats As The Enemy

One of the enduring strategic fallacies on the left is that if center-left and left-center bodies can be broken, people will turn to radical left leadership as their only hope against the right. Communists spent much more time and effort in the first half of the twentieth century trying to break Social-Democratic parties than they did fighting Fascists and Nazis.

Some on the left imagine they can parlay present conditions into the destruction of the whole system of party governance in our political life, and hope to see the Democratic Party destroyed along with the Republicans. It is not going to happen.

"A sense of what ends can be achieved with the means at one's disposal is the foundation of strategic wisdom."

[Number23]

37. Fascinating.

And seeing that this exact same philosophy is causing the quick and public death of the Republican Party is no deterrent?

One of the reasons I became a (Dem-leaning) independent was because of the idiocy and insanity out of both parties combined with the fact that I wasn't convinced that either was all that committed to the black and other minority communities. But the idea that both parties seem to be violently pulled by the extremes on both sides is insane.

As someone who is center-left, the only thing that interests me less than a "radical left" agenda is a "radical right" one.

[vaberella]

46. I'm an Indepedent for the same reason. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. Well said. And very much in line with my thinking as a center-left [Dem-leaning] Independent

[Jennicut]

38. I agree. Thanks Magistrate.

If we don't back Dems up when they are attacked by the right then it weakens the party as a whole.

[Forkboy]

39. The whole thing has been reminding me of something you told me about the Spanish Civil war.

You mentioned that two groups had to team together to fight a common enemy, but couldn't get past their hatred of each other, and one wouldn't help the other in battle, leading to the defeat of both. I was thinking about starting a thread using it as an analogy, but maybe someone with a better grasp of that period could do so instead (nudge nudge wink wink).

Sorry to be so sketchy on the details. I figure I did well to remember the gist of the matter. :)

[The Magistrate]

41. Thank You, My Friend: It Is A Common Theme Of Mine, And A Very Depressing Feature Of That Conflict

The fissure between the Anarchists and Socialists was very deep, and similar fissures existed dividing a Workers Bloc party (P.O.U.M.) and the Communists. There are well attested accounts of militias from these various parties not firing in support of fighters from a different left militia in combat. Even deeper, these fissures came to determine, as various factions gained control of the government, which bodies on which fronts received adequate arms, and resulted in large quantities of arms being kept off all fronts to maintain police and reserve units for use against other left bodies. This is, you will understand, a very simple version, kept deliberately neutral by not closely identifying any of the contenders. But there is little doubt that had unity prevailed on the left, Franco could have been defeated.

The right in the Spain experienced very little of this disunion, though it comprised elements every bit as disparate as the left. Much of the man-power of the right initially consisted of party militias, fielded by Carlists, Alfonsists, and the Phalange. The first two were monarchists, but backed different pretenders to the throne; the latter was a modernizing fascist party, very hostile to the traditional feudal orientation of the Carlists in particular. They could have had a dandy civil war all on their own, but refrained, and fought together without friction on the battlefield. Without that, the professionalism of the Moroccan garrison following Franco would not have been sufficient to sustain even the initial drive to Madrid.

[Forkboy]

43. Thank you for reminding me of the details.

It seems there's a fine lesson there for anyone willing to look. The corollaries between that and the climate on the Left here and now is striking to me, especially in regards to the situation with Speaker Pelosi. The Repubs are playing into an understandable (imo) dislike of her, and we seem to be taking the bait, though thankfully I've noticed a few more today that seem to understand how we're being played. But there's still too many that are letting their hatred of her undermine the very justice they wanted to see delivered in the first place, a very depressing feature of this current conflict.

Thank you again for the recap. I'm going to have to start reading about this period of history.

[The Magistrate]

44. Two Good Starting Points, My Friend

Mr. Orwell's 'Homage to Catalonia" and 'Blood of Spain' by Mr. Ronald Fraser. The first is Orwell's account of serving with the P.O.U.M. militia, with some general comments; the second is an oral history, with interviews ranging from an F.A.I. militia leader to a Carlist militiaman, with useful supporting materials. Both are readily available still, and convey the feel of thing superbly. After that, you will have a better eye for narrative histories. There are no neutral accounts even today, so a good eye and well-calibrated 'bullshit-detector' are essential equipment for study....

[Forkboy]

45. Excellent. Thank you for the recommendations.

I'll check my library for each (if they don't close it down first like they're talking about doing). And if worse comes to worst I'll just buy the suckers from Amazon.

so a good eye and well-calibrated 'bullshit-detector' are essential equipment for study....

DU has trained me well. ;)

Thanks again, my friend.

[ms liberty]

47. Exchanges like this are why I love DU. Thank you, Sir. n/t

[redqueen]

51. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.

You keep those who oppose you divided, so they can't mount a decent attack.

It's worked on the left for far too long, in far too many countries.

[totodeinhere]

65. If Pelosi hadn't taken impeachment off the table then I would be more sympathetic toward her now.

What goes around comes around.

[Still Sensible]

59. I believe there is a small group that is pursuing that

agenda. I don't think it is an achievable goal nor would I support it, but it is there.

[BlooInBloo]

60. Interesting.

[Bushknew]

66. ...

[Bushknew]

68. I’m a Dennis Kucinich Democrat. The consequences of history have shown his judgment to have been ..

correct while other Democrats fell for the bullshit.

[Bushknew]

69. ..

[PassingFair]

61. Please identify these people on the left....

I'm as left as they come, and I am not
"co-operating with Rove" against Pelosi.

...and I don't see others doing it, either.

I don't forget that Pelosi voted AGAINST
the October 2002 IWR, unlike several
small (d) democrats that DESERVE to be
called to account.

[bdamomma]

20. they have been wanting to go after Pelosi for a long time.

I am sure she can strike back.

[redqueen]

21. Yep.

All the M$M has to do is throw out some delicious-smelling lefty-chum, and the useful idiots will go into a frenzy.

[bdamomma]

24. the media is as guilty as the repigs are.

[Peacetrain]

50. They are hand and hand.. as someone pointed out once to me.. the repubs are entrenched

in the DC community, and the press there, still thinks they have all the power, and kow tow to them to keep what they think are their lines open for that "inside" story

But truth be known, we do not have much of a press left.. plenty of media, but not a press

[wowimthere]

26. I'm pushing back! talk to the media - [e-mail]

[incapsulated]

27. I won't

I'm not crucifying Pelosi for the benefit of the fucking repukes, now, like the democrats were responsible for all of this, fuck that.

[Window]

31. Absolutely agree! We cannot let them control the message any longer.

Every time their asses get caught up it some crap, they try to change the subject and control the message. Not this time! No one on the left should even consider not supporting the Speaker on this.

[butterfly77]

28. I am not crazy about nancy but...

I will do whatever I can to help..I was getting more and more angry this morning watching Scar and fox as they talked garbage as though Pelosi was the criminal and Bush and Cheney are some angels.. I say bushit!

[ibegurpard]

32. yes, this is complete bullshit

what she knew and when she knew it is completely irrelevant when compared with their transparent efforts at deflection.
It's like letting the bank robbers try and convict the getaway driver.
Having said that I believe that Obama is making a serious mistake not scrapping the military tribunals.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Phx_Dem]

34. This is how the progressive Dems operate. They eat their own.

They're no different from the extreme right in that they think they own the party and demand that their laundry list take priority above all else. They hate the military, they hate corporate America and they hate anyone who disagrees with them. Instead of working to fix a problem, they trash it.

[Binka]

42. Whoa Broad Brush You Are Painting With

Progressive Dem's DO NOT hate the military. I am the product of a military household and I do not hate the military. Have you or any of your family served?

Next corporate America is a vermin on our society and any thinking person would and should oppose their egregious predatory system. Why is this a negative?

Lastly progressives are on the forefront to change things not trash them.

You are quite confused or on the wrong site. And you might want to work on your anger management.

[snowdays]

35. Gibbs dodges Pelosi question...........

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/


May 15, 2009
Gibbs dodges Pelosi question

The White House wants nothing to do with this Nancy Pelosi fight with the CIA.

Not long after CIA Director Leon Panetta put out a statement sticking by his agency, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs dodged a question about whether Pelosi was right in questioning the CIA.

"I think you've heard the president say this a number of times: the best thing we can do is to look forward," Gibbs said. "I appreciate the invitation to get involved in here, but I'm not gonna RSVP,"

[vaberella]

36. They don't trust the President. At this point, I don't care any more.

If O doesn't win the next term and they give it to a Repub..so what. Obviously they feel a republican can do better. Most of them sound like they want McCain too win. Or maybe it's still resentment after HRC (I'm not trying to raise any hackles) but let's me honest.

[tsuki]

49. I'm keeping my powder dry. nt

[slackmaster]

52. Nancy is taking herself down

Don't blame the media for doing their job. Dirt sells. They're just in it for the money.

[Peacetrain]

53. I will blame the media till hell freezes over.. they sat on thier backsides

while we all knew, the reports were out there, about torture, using these things to validate Iraq, and letting Osama Bin Laden go.

So where does the media decide to take a stand.. on top of the Democrats who have been trying to bring this to light and get our country back.

[slackmaster]

56. The only thing the media care about is selling advertising

Their decisions to run or not run any particular story are always based on what they believe will bring in the most money.

[Vinca]

54. It's very upsetting. The media is dwelling on what Pelosi knew

and when she knew it, while completely ignoring those who authorized torture, those who ordered torture, those who committed torture and the individuals who died as a result of the torture. It's disgusting.

[Gman2]

55. I believe Pelosi, and I think she should shrieke about vindication.

They should have to endure the whole story coming out. All of it. And the guilt apportioned as it is. Fuck Pelosi if she did help. I dont believe it, and neither does Pelosi apparently. Show the the partisan scamming of the dems by the CIA. Show how corrupt the DOJ stacking was. Get these cockroaches scurrying. Noone with a brain will allow them power again in history. the meme of the right is: they are all corrupt. Throw them all out. Dems and pubs. This is their aim. As we throw them all out, they will inject Reagan common wisdumb as the framework. I see it clearly. That is why they are just spouting bromides. Frame their bromides as the onluy alternative, and familiar. The activist aims, foriegn.

[jillan]

57. What I don't get about the Democratic Party is where is our

Newt Gingrich?

Our Rush Limpo?


Why don't we have anybody that is out there screaming for Democratic values and principles that is capable of framing our message?

Again - we are just too nice.

We watched this happen during the Clinton administration, the election of 2000, allowed a decorated VietNam Vet be disgraced in 2004, and are watching it happen again as now their target is Pelosi.

Isn't there anybody out there that is going to take over a message?
Surely we have a loud mouth in the Dem party that is not afraid to take crap being thrown at them for the good of our party.


Loudmouth Dems - where are you?

[anonymous171]

58. Fuck Pelosi. She wasn't there when we needed her, so we shouldn't be there for her either.

[PassingFair]

62. She voted against the IWR when many others didn't have the courage to do so.

She has had to toe a middle line.

I was NOT happy with her "impeachment
is off the table" decree, and I think
she makes a LOUSY public face for the
party, but I do think she is a true
centrist in the democratic party.

[BlooInBloo]

63. Yes. That's how DUers roll.

[TheKentuckian]

64. Not me. No way, no how.

[EFerrari]

67. I know exactly how you feel.

I've been trying to take notes of their talking points to start writing about this. We all need to step up and push back in any way we can.