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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:22 PM
Original message
Obama's Military Commission Disaster
Obama's Military Commission Disaster

Shayana Kadidal
Posted: May 15, 2009 11:16 PM


Military trials are, for people living in countries with histories of military rule, redolent of their own periods of dictatorship. Whatever Americans become convinced of regarding their fairness, no one abroad will regard them as any different than President Bush's two rounds of commissions.

That loss of confidence threatens to erode the willingness of ordinary people in foreign countries to work with American law enforcement as their eyes and ears on the ground--just as the same phenomenon happens in our inner cities. It also has the potential to erode the willingness of foreign governments to work with us. Recall that Spain announced after 9/11 that it would not extradite suspects to face trials in the first set of military commissions (the ones created by President Bush in November 2001), and that other European countries have delayed extraditions while assurances were sought that the defendants would be tried in the civilian criminal justice system. Contrast the experience immediately after 9/11, where the trial of the East African embassy bombers in the federal criminal courts in 2000 built the public record necessary to convince the world that simultaneous attacks were a hallmark of Osama bin Laden's organization--and thus allowed the United States to successfully assign blame to Al Qaeda and build a coalition rapidly to intervene against them in Afghanistan. In short, the use of military trial systems threatens our national security.

There are more profound issues of perception at play as well. Recall that in the spring of 2007, when Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the admitted mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, first had an opportunity to defend himself before a military panel (his CSRT), he expressed regret for the deaths of civilian women and children on 9/11 but said, essentially, "that's what happens in war, as you Americans well understand." Placing him before a military court for his trial plays into his desire to portray himself as a military figure engaged in a political struggle with the United States--exactly how he wants to be seen in the Muslim world--rather than as a mass murderer. Ironically, Obama met with 9/11 families just after announcing a policy that will allow their murdered loved ones to be portrayed as "collateral casualties" in a military conflict. The 9/11 planners seem likely to plead guilty in whatever forum they are tried in. The question that needs to be asked now is not whether they will be convicted, but rather what meaning the (worldwide) public will take from their convictions.

What could have provoked President Obama and his advisors to go down this road? Were technical legal concerns at work? Was it "double jeopardy" concerns--did the fact that defendants were charged and juries empanelled before the commissions mean that essentially the same charges could not be brought in domestic court? Not at all--the fact that all commissions offenses required an extra element of proof means this would never have been a problem under the "all-elements" rule. Was it a statute of limitations concern--the idea that too much time had lapsed since 9/11 for charges to be brought in ordinary criminal courts? Again, absolutely not: the limitations period in which an indictment must issue is 8 years for most transnational terrorism offenses, and we are months away from the 8-year anniversary of 9/11. (In fact several current commission defendants are also subject to standing indictments in federal court.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/obamas-military-commissio_b_204197.html
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Cheney America continues.
Edited on Sat May-16-09 02:42 PM by Warren Stupidity
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Too many Bush holdovers still working in the government
and some of them were able to slide into civil service positions.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Cheney moles.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Particularly in the Defense Department
and I am not just talking about Bob Gates, the man that politicized the Soviet Office (SOVO) at CIA when he was Admiral Bobby Inman's lapdog.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. The job of the military is combat, not jurisprudence.
Military Justice is an oxymoron, and always has been. It's a joke, a bad joke. It's Kangaroo courts run by lifelong officers of the military who don't have the foggiest clue about due process or rights of the accused, and zero commitment to the constitutional ideals of individual rights.

Using military for anything other than military purposes is idiotic, at best, and highly dangerous, at worst.
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Old Hank Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great point by the author: KSM admitted to 9-11 planning even before his torture
Showing how torture wouldn't impede the trial of these invidivuals in Federal court or court martial system. Great article.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. I want to know what is going on, who got inside of Obama's head?
Why has Obama done a complete 180* on this....

Are we next going to hear that black sites or rendition is necessary?

I don't know what to think anymore.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Read this for unvarnished facts as opposed to hyperbolic opinion (link) -->
Edited on Sat May-16-09 03:50 PM by ClarkUSA
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks - it will be interesting to see what Obama says on Thursday.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Sorry, I had trouble finding the link through all that varnish
How, exactly, is it within the rule of law to create a parallel, off-shore judicial system specifically for military detainees?
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. We've had a parallel judicial system for military detainees as long as we've had military.
Nothing totally new is/was being created here. For the US, this goes back to Washington (the President, not the location), Have a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_tribunal


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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are they legally able to carry out Gitmo tribunals on US Soil?
If the answer is no, these are extra-constitutional trials. Why is our regular, constitutional system of justice inadequate for these detainees?
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Our regular, constitutional, system is being used now.
Edited on Sat May-16-09 05:04 PM by boppers
"Gitmo tribunals" have been carried out on US soil throughout the history of our country, with the Supremes finding that the US military, and the POTUS, must comply with certain rules in military tribunals, and specific conditions must be met to determine what judicial system is used.

More links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Quirin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamdi_v._Rumsfeld
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamdan_v._Rumsfeld

edit: typo
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. When they hold these new tribunals within US borders, I'll believe you
Remember, many of these are not enemy combatants, they are kidnap victims turned in for a bounty. Why do we need a special court system for these folks?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Disaster - Really? as the author himself admits "it remains to be seen"

It remains to be seen how skeptical the new courts--and their unknown judges--will be on this issue.


The author apparently is unaware that Military tribunals as well as Military Courts, Criminal Courts and Civil Courts all are still answerable to the Supreme Court. To date every single appeal from Guantamino defendents have been successful at the Supreme Court. To identify this process with "countries with military rule" is typical of the hypberbole through out the article.

The Military Tribunals will still have to stand the process of due process with the Supreme Court. Whether or not those tests will be dealt with as fairly in the Supreme Court as they have been to date "remains to be seen".
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