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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:34 AM Original message |
Mr. President, you alluded to your oath of office today, stating that you are obligated |
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Lorax7844 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:34 AM Response to Original message |
1. k and r |
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emulatorloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
2. He probably doesn't read DU. Call the White House n/t |
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Lorax7844 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. right on |
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Lorax7844 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:53 AM Response to Reply #3 |
203. I honestly believe that Obama cares about those that criticize him |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:21 PM Response to Reply #2 |
143. Exactly!! He told us to keep him in line and make our voices heard. |
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WhiteTara (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:24 PM Response to Reply #2 |
172. 202 456 1111 -- every day n/t |
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bagrman (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:41 AM Response to Original message |
4. Your ass is covered Boss, GET'ER DONE |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
5. Calling Obama a criminal really doesn't help the cause. |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:48 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Ayup |
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tridim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:50 AM Response to Reply #5 |
9. So are we allowed to support Obama and still ask questions about what really happend on 9/11? |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:51 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. You're allowed to do whatever the hell you want. |
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tridim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:52 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Asking questions RE: the BushCo era is never stupid. |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:52 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Calling for the impeachment of Obama is stupid. |
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tridim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:55 AM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Yes it is. |
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EnoughOfThis (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:42 PM Response to Reply #13 |
195. It comes full circle |
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LaloBorges (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 08:52 AM Response to Reply #195 |
215. Agreed |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:57 AM Response to Reply #5 |
16. #1, I didn't call Obama a criminal. |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Riiiiiight, and threw in the reference to "high crimes and misdeamenors" |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:04 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Riiiiggggghhhhht. I didn't call Obama a criminal. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:52 PM Response to Reply #22 |
177. And if there is no prosecution after the investigation. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:18 PM Response to Reply #177 |
186. And, you know this how? |
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spiritual_gunfighter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:37 AM Response to Reply #19 |
231. The law is the law |
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tridim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:02 PM Response to Reply #16 |
20. Obama isn't an investigator or a prosecutor, he's the President |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. He's the head of the executive branch. The branch of government |
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tridim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:11 PM Response to Reply #24 |
29. And he has already directed the AG and Congress to investigate |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:26 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Has he? What I've heard is that his administration will NOT prosecute |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #37 |
102. His administration CANNOT PROSECUTE!!! |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:21 PM Response to Reply #102 |
132. The hell it doesn't. The DOJ is part of the Executive Branch. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:18 PM Response to Reply #132 |
140. You're hearing from the "head in the sand" branch of the corporatist party |
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konnichi wa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:22 PM Response to Reply #102 |
144. Well shit, somebody done went and changed the Constitution while I wasn't looking. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:19 PM Response to Reply #37 |
141. That's what he said this morning per the video. |
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snowdays (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:58 PM Response to Reply #29 |
97. Please Link to where he said that please.---as far as I know he |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #24 |
100. Exactly, the Executive Branch... |
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Vinnie From Indy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #100 |
104. Gee, I thought the Attorney General worked for the Prez |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:15 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Read a book |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:30 PM Response to Reply #105 |
136. Take a gander at the list of departments under the Executive Branch |
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konnichi wa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:23 PM Response to Reply #105 |
145. I can only surmise you are smoking something that isn't doing what you expected. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:33 PM Response to Reply #145 |
149. Dead on! nt |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:27 PM Response to Reply #149 |
159. I thought you had me on ignore... |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:28 PM Response to Reply #149 |
160. Sadly... |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:43 PM Response to Reply #145 |
154. Ass.. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:55 PM Response to Reply #145 |
163. I am really digging 'ignore' right now. Future crow-eaters be gone!! |
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snowdays (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:16 PM Response to Reply #100 |
106. Obama is the Leader, but he is NOT leading on this. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:25 PM Response to Reply #100 |
134. The judicial branch INTERPRETS the laws, |
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:42 PM Response to Reply #134 |
153. THE PRESIDENT DOESNT DO IT HIMSELF!!! |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:55 PM Response to Reply #153 |
179. And, what the hell does any of that have to do with your assertion |
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shadowknows69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:06 PM Response to Reply #134 |
182. That's how I learned it. Should I sue my history teachers? |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:28 PM Response to Reply #182 |
190. You learned it correctly. nt |
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slay (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #5 |
25. So let me get this straight - it's wrong to challenge Obama, but believing the offical story of 9/11 |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:19 PM Response to Reply #25 |
32. Like I said elsewhere, calling for the impeachment of Obama is stupid. |
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slay (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #32 |
43. Who's calling for the impeachment of Obama here? What are you talking about? |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:38 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. Thanks for the link. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:43 PM Response to Reply #43 |
53. Deleted message |
slay (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:51 PM Response to Reply #53 |
64. Thanks for the link - I can never tell if people are being serious or sarcastic when they post stuff |
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mkultra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #64 |
76. like i said, they get removed. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:29 PM Response to Reply #64 |
147. Exactly!! |
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:44 PM Response to Reply #43 |
173. Undercover FBI in your classroom? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:57 AM Response to Reply #173 |
200. Deleted message |
slay (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 04:47 AM Response to Reply #173 |
205. You know what forget it - I don't care if you believe me or not |
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glitch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:50 PM Response to Reply #25 |
63. Perfectly consistent to say it's wrong to challenge Obama AND believe the official story of 9/11. |
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slay (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:54 PM Response to Reply #63 |
67. You made my point for me far better than I could - thank you |
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glitch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:59 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. You're welcome! :) nt |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:35 PM Response to Reply #63 |
150. Exactly! The sheeple mentality! |
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jgraz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:19 AM Response to Reply #25 |
228. Some people just need their binky of lies |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:49 PM Response to Reply #5 |
156. nice sidestep. |
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pleah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
6. K&R |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:49 AM Response to Original message |
8. That's a U.N. resolution from the '80's. And Pres. Obama has instructed his AG to investigate. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:52 AM Response to Reply #8 |
11. Hey stop letting facts get in the way of a perfectly good self rightous rant |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #11 |
35. I know... I'm such a sucker for preferring facts to op-ed rhetoric. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:55 AM Response to Reply #8 |
15. I don't know about President Clinton. If he violated the CAT |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:05 PM Response to Reply #15 |
23. Well, since you're going back to the 80's... better look at the 90's, too (links ->) |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:09 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. If Bill Clinton is responsible for extraordinary rendtions, then YES |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:10 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. There's no "If" about it. He started the practice with presidential directive PDD 39 on 6/21/95. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #28 |
41. OK, here is the text of PDD 39. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:37 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. You expected the text of Clinton's presidential directive to include the word "torture"? |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #45 |
59. I'm sorry, but show me where I'm giving a pass to Clinton. I've already |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:00 PM Response to Reply #8 |
17. That's the law of this land. The Constitution is a resolution ratified |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:08 PM Response to Reply #17 |
26. U.N. resolutions are the "law of this land"? I don't think so. Besides, AG Holder is on it. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:13 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. Treaties are the law of this land. We RATIFIED the Convention |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:15 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. You're wrong (see link). And Pres. Obama has asked AG Holder to investigate this matter. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:25 PM Response to Reply #31 |
36. self-delete nt |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. No, you're wrong - Supremacy clause |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #39 |
49. Sorry, but you're wrong. See Reply #38. nt |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:43 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. Read it and you're still wrong UN resolutions (what you are pointing at |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:44 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. It's a UN resolution we're talking about, not a signed treaty. See Reply #38. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:45 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Oh for fuck's sake! "United Nations Convention Against Torture" go and read who signed and also |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. It clearly states it's a UN resolution, so your spin fails to impress. See Reply #38 for why. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:51 PM Response to Reply #58 |
65. Which part about ratified don't you get? Have you ever heard the |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:55 PM Response to Reply #58 |
69. And you are correct in stating that it is up to the Justice Department whether to prosecute or not. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:17 PM Response to Reply #54 |
78. Do I have to post the text to these links to get you to read them: |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:15 PM Response to Reply #78 |
81. Do I have to repeat that Pres. Obama has ALREADY ordered AG Holder to investigate this matter? |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #81 |
93. Again, I haven't seen any news report, etc. that backs up your statement. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:43 PM Response to Reply #93 |
119. See Reply #116. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:31 PM Response to Reply #119 |
148. This morning he said its not going to happen per the video. nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:26 PM Response to Reply #148 |
158. Huh? Per what video? |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 08:41 PM Response to Reply #158 |
167. Rachel Maddow's discussion with Isikoff on Hissyspit's Journal |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:35 AM Response to Reply #167 |
208. I don't trust hearsay by biased unsourced parties. nt |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:17 AM Response to Reply #208 |
217. I can't imagine why someone would make that up but obviously you're |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:28 AM Response to Reply #217 |
221. Hearsay is not reliable. I prefer to wait for the facts and see the WH plan. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:37 AM Response to Reply #221 |
223. I'd love it if you were right about this but given the recent behaviors |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:06 AM Response to Reply #223 |
227. I'll wait to see the WH plan rather than make preemptive judgment based on biased unsourced hearsay. |
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The Hope Mobile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:41 AM Response to Reply #227 |
233. You said that and I said you're entitled. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:44 AM Response to Reply #233 |
234. Cool. |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:52 AM Response to Reply #81 |
202. not sure if this sig is one of the cutesiest or one of the most annoying ones i've ever seen... nt |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:00 PM Response to Reply #31 |
71. I am not going to get into a semantics argument with you. The |
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dotymed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:57 AM Response to Reply #26 |
236. I CAMPAIGNED FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA |
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xxqqqzme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #8 |
18. Clinton wasn't investigated |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:38 PM Response to Reply #8 |
46. Clinton didn't start the practice of "extraordinary renditions" |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:43 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. The ACLU and Wikipedia and PPD 39 contradict you. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:50 PM Response to Reply #52 |
62. Quote the text from PDD 39 that disagrees with Scott Horton and Dennis Kucinich |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:55 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. See reply #45. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:02 PM Response to Reply #68 |
72. I did. All I see is a link to the ACLU that doesn't have the text |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:09 PM Response to Reply #72 |
79. Did you expect the text of Clinton's presidential directive to mention "extraordinary renditions"? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:25 PM Response to Reply #79 |
83. no, I expected text that would meet the definition of "extraordinary rendition" but have seen none |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:39 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. No, I expect you would not but you're hardly unbiased, are you? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:44 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. Of course I'm biased, but I would never peg Kucinich as such... and... |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #89 |
112. So you think PBS Frontline and the ACLU is biased? As for Kucinich, this must be the first time... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:37 PM Response to Reply #112 |
114. do I think the ACLU and PBS are biased?? Yep! |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:59 PM Response to Reply #46 |
122. You were wrong in that thread and you are still wrong today. n/t |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:06 PM Response to Reply #122 |
157. only to people who can't face facts - like you. |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:24 AM Response to Reply #46 |
219. He didn't start it, but he didn't stop it. (nt) |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:00 PM Response to Reply #8 |
128. "You da man Clark...You da man" *said in my crazy R. Bachmann voice* n/t |
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soryang (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:30 PM Response to Reply #8 |
135. According to Michael Isikoff Obama said no prosecutions |
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Raksha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 08:42 AM Response to Reply #8 |
214. Clinton could be a war criminal also. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:04 PM Response to Original message |
21. who does his admin have to prosecute in order for him not to become a war criminal |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:23 PM Response to Reply #21 |
34. According to the law (and you'll see this if you read it), |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 04:32 AM Response to Reply #34 |
204. please provide evidence for the President having to prosecute |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:24 AM Response to Reply #204 |
218. Did you read the law? If you will, your question will be answered. nt |
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Senator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:31 PM Response to Reply #21 |
137. Everyone suspected of participation in torture. |
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salguine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:20 PM Response to Original message |
33. Of course there's a way around it: |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:29 PM Response to Original message |
38. "Myth and Fact: Does Failure to Implement UN Resolutions Violate International Law?" |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:30 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. We're talking about a signed ratified treaty. Not a UN resolution. nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. The document refers to "General Assembly resolution 39/46 of 10 December 1984" |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:36 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. See reply to your other reply above. Once ratified it becomes US law. nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:39 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. That's a myth, as my linked source shows in Reply #38. nt |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:42 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Again no, your link doesn't mention ratified treaties does it? I can't believe I have to try and |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:46 PM Response to Reply #50 |
56. We're talking about a UN resolution, not a ratified treaty as you keep insisting. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:47 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Look up United Nations "Convention Against Torture" that's all you have to do. nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:49 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. I'm looking at the OP's linked document page and it clearly is titled "UN resolution..." |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:53 PM Response to Reply #61 |
66. A UN resolution yes but specifically the "United Nations Convention Against Torture" it goes |
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mkultra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #66 |
75. UN resolutions signed by the unted states are not automatic treaties |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. You are correct reg. conventions and treaties. nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:30 PM Response to Reply #66 |
85. See Reply #80. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:43 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. See # 86. And that doesn't change the fact that you kept claiming |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:59 PM Response to Reply #88 |
121. Sorry, but I disagree since the document clearly references UN resolution 39/46 |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:49 AM Response to Reply #121 |
224. This isn't for you to agree or disagree it is how this country works when they |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:40 AM Response to Reply #224 |
232. You do realize that U.S. courts agree with me, don't you? |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:55 AM Response to Reply #232 |
235. The Supremacy Clause pretty much states that if the document is ratified |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 11:10 AM Response to Reply #235 |
237. Why are you ignoring what I just said? I repeat, U.S. courts agree with me. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 11:15 AM Response to Reply #237 |
238. You've ignored everything I've been saying since yesterday. I've provided to you |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 11:35 AM Response to Reply #238 |
239. No, I've disagreed with your position. So do the U.S. courts. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 11:43 AM Response to Reply #239 |
240. Yet you continued to call it a resolution when you knew that I was talking about the |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 11:59 AM Response to Reply #240 |
241. Red herrings may help you keep up a fallacious argument but I have the U.S. courts on my side. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:03 PM Response to Reply #241 |
242. That's up to the attorney general. Now, is torture illegal or not Mr Addington? nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:10 PM Response to Reply #242 |
243. Now you've created a strawman "torture illegal or not" argument to CYA. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:12 PM Response to Reply #243 |
244. So what is it that you're arguing here? It's illegal but not because of the Conventions |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:13 PM Response to Reply #244 |
245. There you go again... |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:14 PM Response to Reply #245 |
246. Ah the Reagan response........ nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:19 PM Response to Reply #246 |
247. It fits you well. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:36 PM Response to Reply #247 |
248. It says more about the person using it. nt |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:13 PM Response to Reply #248 |
251. lol! Your response was predictable. But you got my message. |
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Guy Whitey Corngood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #251 |
252. Yours are not exactly oozing with originality and cleverness. Did you have a good lunch? nt |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-23-09 09:28 AM Response to Reply #243 |
257. The courts do not agree with you as to your position on treaties. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:09 PM Response to Reply #61 |
74. No, it does not say that it's a RESOLUTION. It's clearly a |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #74 |
82. The document clearly refers to "General Assembly resolution 39/46 of 10 December 1984" |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #82 |
99. The document REFERS to a resolution. It is not TITLED as a resolution. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:35 PM Response to Reply #99 |
113. Wrong. According to your document link, that's the UN resolution's full I.D. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 01:07 PM Response to Reply #38 |
73. The resolution to which the CONVENTION (which is a TREATY RATIFIED by this country) |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:27 PM Response to Reply #73 |
84. Why can't you acknowledge the fact that Pres. Obama has already ordered AG Holder to investigate? |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:25 PM Response to Reply #84 |
110. I'm going to try this one more time with you, and then I'm done... |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:39 PM Response to Reply #110 |
151. Your insistence doesn't make it so. The CAT entry on Wikipedia is illuminating. (quote/link)-> |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:08 PM Response to Reply #151 |
183. You're correct. It's illuminating. First of all, |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:41 AM Response to Reply #183 |
209. CAT is "'an international human rights instrument, under the review of the United Nations" |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:04 AM Response to Reply #209 |
216. The Constitution says that all treaties are the supreme law of the land... |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:03 AM Response to Reply #216 |
226. Then why do U.S. courts disagree with you? |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:28 AM Response to Reply #226 |
229. You do realize, do you not, that you took that citation from a document |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 10:35 AM Response to Reply #229 |
230. Of course I do, but the reality remains the same. Your position is not supported by U.S. courts. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #230 |
250. Yes, it is. Bye. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:28 PM Response to Reply #250 |
253. Saying so isn't enough. There is no case study where a U.S. court supported your position. |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #250 |
254. Medellin v. Texas |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #254 |
255. I agree with all of that. However, because Congress has not |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 03:17 PM Response to Reply #254 |
256. Let me also say that in this case, the report cited states that |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:15 PM Response to Reply #151 |
184. And, I refer you to post #86 where I quote the report |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:42 AM Response to Reply #184 |
210. "Obligations" does not equate to "supreme law of the land". |
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scubadude (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 12:49 PM Response to Original message |
60. ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:54 PM Response to Reply #60 |
178. So, Obama is an accomplice of Ted Stevens |
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scubadude (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:27 AM Response to Reply #178 |
220. Self Delete |
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scubadude (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:31 AM Response to Reply #178 |
222. Yes, it is indeed a Geek Tragedy. |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:13 PM Response to Original message |
80. the OP is an example of what happens when amateurs play international lawyer |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:35 PM Response to Reply #80 |
86. And, your post is an example of getting half the story, and not understanding the defintion |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Why can't you acknowledge the fact that Pres. Obama supports AG Holder's investigation into torture? |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. You state that as being a "fact." SHOW ME. One news article. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:42 PM Response to Reply #95 |
116. From Michael Isikoff's report in Newsweek (link and quote -->) |
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Generator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:45 PM Response to Reply #116 |
139. Dude, that was so last month |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:28 PM Response to Reply #139 |
146. You're right, "Faith is not about reality." Which is why I don't believe off-the-record hearsay. |
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Generator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 08:15 PM Response to Reply #146 |
166. One of the men that met with Obama is going to |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:47 AM Response to Reply #166 |
212. Fine, but it's still hearsay, which is why civil courts strictly limit their admittance as evidence. |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #86 |
94. You are missing the point. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #94 |
98. I understand exactly what you are saying. The reason the US declared |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:19 PM Response to Reply #98 |
108. the supreme court disagrees with you |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #94 |
101. Oh, and BTW, I have not claimed that Obama is guilty of a criminal act. |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:21 PM Response to Reply #101 |
109. not a crime under domestic law |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:28 PM Response to Reply #109 |
111. OK, then. If President Obama fails to live up to international law, |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 04:30 PM Response to Reply #111 |
123. Bush - impeachable offense; Obama -- no impeachable offense |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 04:59 PM Response to Reply #123 |
127. That's wrong. And if you don't know it, you should. |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:01 PM Response to Reply #127 |
129. I look forward to your explanation of why my analysis is wrong |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:23 PM Response to Reply #129 |
133. I assume that you have access to The Google. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:49 PM Response to Reply #129 |
175. BECAUSE OBAMA IS EVIL LIKE BUSH@!!!@!!! n/t |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:18 PM Response to Reply #123 |
130. Is waterboarding outlawed by domestic law? |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 08:51 PM Response to Reply #123 |
168. I'm probably being dense here but if under domestic law Bush committed a treasonable |
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Vattel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:42 PM Response to Reply #101 |
117. you are confusing criminality and illegality. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:20 PM Response to Reply #117 |
131. There are illegal acts that are not crimes? |
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Vattel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 08:05 PM Response to Reply #131 |
165. It's not really rare |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:50 PM Response to Reply #131 |
176. Sneaking into the country from Mexico isn't a crime. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:22 PM Response to Reply #176 |
188. It's not? Then why the hell do we arrest those who do? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:32 PM Response to Reply #188 |
193. They are detained and deported. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:43 PM Response to Reply #80 |
118. Wrong and you should know better. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:56 PM Response to Reply #80 |
180. There is no statute making it a crime to fail to prosecute someone. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:27 PM Response to Reply #180 |
189. Have you read the CAT? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:31 PM Response to Reply #189 |
192. There is no provision making it a crime to fail to investigate |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 09:53 AM Response to Reply #192 |
225. ... |
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CakeGrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:53 PM Response to Original message |
91. I'm pretty sure the Constitutional Law professor knows the legal obligations of his office |
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snowdays (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #91 |
107. perhaps. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #91 |
120. His constant statements about moving forward are directly at odds |
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CakeGrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 04:53 PM Response to Reply #120 |
124. Simply *saying* we need to move forward does not equate to calling off the DOJ |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 04:57 PM Response to Reply #124 |
125. Well, he hasn't. The UN Special Rapporteur has made that clear in the media. |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:39 PM Response to Reply #125 |
152. I'm well aware of what the Special Rapporteur has said |
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sofa king (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:53 PM Response to Original message |
92. Sure there's a way around it. Just ask our Indian tribes. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:10 PM Response to Reply #92 |
103. Well, you do make a point. nt |
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winyanstaz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 02:55 PM Response to Original message |
96. K & R....Return us to being a Nation of Laws. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 03:39 PM Response to Original message |
115. It's all right to keep telling Obama what you need and expect. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 05:44 PM Response to Reply #115 |
138. Thanks. |
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Vidar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 04:57 PM Response to Original message |
126. K&R. |
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konnichi wa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:20 PM Response to Original message |
142. Wouldn't be prudent. |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 06:46 PM Response to Original message |
155. there you go again, trying to enforce the *rules* at a fan club meeting. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:55 PM Response to Reply #155 |
162. Why are you using such divisive language? This is a discussion forum and we're having a discussion. |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:18 PM Response to Reply #162 |
170. war crimes are war crimes. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:33 AM Response to Reply #170 |
207. You haven't answered my question. nt |
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Old Hank (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 08:55 PM Response to Reply #155 |
169. the UN Rapporteur on Torture recently said we have an obligation to investigate |
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TheMachineWins (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 07:49 PM Response to Original message |
161. K&R |
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flyarm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 12:45 PM Response to Reply #161 |
249. SHHHHH..in a bad economy ..it doesn't surprise does it? eom |
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santamargarita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 08:00 PM Response to Original message |
164. Stop talking about the law and start enforcing it on The Bush Crime Family! |
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Lord Helmet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:21 PM Response to Original message |
171. Cheney's big mouth could be making it more likely. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:48 PM Response to Original message |
174. Lots of "impeach Obama" nutjobs to add to my ignore list. |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 09:58 PM Response to Reply #174 |
181. Where did I say that. But, if you insist on putting me on ignore... |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:17 PM Response to Reply #181 |
185. You realize that Eric Holder is supposed to make those |
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rateyes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:21 PM Response to Reply #185 |
187. Yes, I'm aware of that. However, Obama said that his administration |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:30 PM Response to Reply #187 |
191. Perhaps Holder told him that they wouldn't be prosecuting |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:43 PM Response to Reply #191 |
199. Following orders is not a defense for a war-crime. |
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Vattel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:58 AM Response to Reply #185 |
213. no he's not. Obama is the chief executive. |
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EnoughOfThis (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 10:39 PM Response to Original message |
194. If Obama believes it is torture.... |
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Dinger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:06 PM Response to Original message |
196. Just Had A Thought |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:32 PM Response to Original message |
197. It doesn't matter who started it. |
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L. Coyote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-21-09 11:36 PM Response to Original message |
198. Mr. Obama. Prosecute, or get in line to be prosecuted. It is that simple. |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 01:49 AM Response to Original message |
201. You won ... after reading though the thread you won |
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mdmc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:29 AM Response to Original message |
206. there IS one way around this - |
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Orsino (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri May-22-09 06:46 AM Response to Original message |
211. That was for *our* benefit, I hope. |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Apr 25th 2024, 07:33 AM Response to Original message |
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