If we don't hold Obama's feet to the fire who will?

[Lorax7844]

First up, let me say that if I am talking to a right winger I will defend Obama like nobody's business. I have absolutely no problem laying waste to repub talking points. In fact, the high school debate captain in me lives for that kind of stuff. I actually read the entire Bible just so I could argue with far right southerners. This lead me to become a red letter Christian, which I was not before, but still that is not the point of this thread.

I just wanted to remind folks that in his inauguration speech Obama eluded to us pushing him, he wants us to demand more. Obama is notorious for caring more about his critics than those that approve of him. Something that I love about him BTW. Obama wants us to push him to do the right thing and we will. Anyone that thinks that those who are actually card carrying members of the ACLU (I am BTW) will let the destruction of our liberties slide is fooling themselves. I love Obama. I love his family. I love everything that he represents, but I love the constitution more. Nothing will ever change that.

Why it is believed that I cannot support my president and my constitution confuses me. Those that berate anyone who disagrees with Obama, please take notice. Obama himself welcomes arguments, maybe it is the lawyer in him, who knows, but he has always seemed to be one where deep thought and discussion is where we can find the best answer.

I just wanted everyone here to know that Obama has always seemed to welcome our debate. Calling him names (Bushco-lite, Fascist, etc) is just ad hominem attack, I disagree with that and want to point out that it is logical fallacy. Real debate, on the other hand, both I and he seem to relish in. We should always question his motives. It's not unpatriotic, it's what he told us to do. WE are responsible for keeping Obama in check, and I for one look forward to it. We are only a few months in and already it's a mixed bag, somethings thrill me (pro-choice, pro-milage standards) some things don't (not prosecuting the former administration, etc) but we are off to an ok start. It's OUR job to keep Obama on the straight and narrow.

Obama IS NOT going to completely blow off his base. He is smart enough to know that his base is the group that actually cares enough to VOLUNTEER on his behalf. From what I've gathered Obama, really wants to have 2 terms.

It's ok to disagree, it's ok to want more. If we constantly cave, how are we ever going to move the country more to the left; more towards justice and freedom, more towards that more perfect union that we all dream about. With all the arguments here, I just wanted to show that there is a middle ground and I am happy to stand on it.

Never give up, America is and will always be the land of opportunity and dreams.

[grantcart]

1. Welcome to DU

And thank goodness we are able to add more voices that make sure that Obama is living up to his campaign promises!

There are so few of us here.

[Uzybone]

4. Yep, almost no one disagrees with the President on this board

[Lorax7844]

12. if he is wrong we should always disagree

I am a big believer in making sure there is a good pull to the left.

[Butch350]

23. Who are you to decide he's wrong - besides how many countries have you ran?

Tell me what's going on behind the scenes in washington. I draw on you vast RES of Knowl.

[Lorax7844]

6. Thanks I was here before

but 2004 made me a shriveled shell. Now that Obama is in power, I feel like Phoenix rising from the ashes.

[elleng]

2. 'Disagreeing' is fine;

disagreeing in highly disagreeable ways is NOT.

Watch the way you say it.

[Lorax7844]

3. agreed we here at DU also have a fine line to walk

One between making Obama weaker and one which pushes him to do the right thing.

Keep the faith though. Obama wants to be the next FDR, we just have to make sure he has the opportunity to do it.

[Duer 157099]

5. Cheney will

but for a whole other agenda

[Ken Burch]

7. And when Cheney holds your feet to the fire, he REALLY holds your feet to the fire

[Lorax7844]

10. saddistic fucker should be in jail above all else

I would let all of the Meirs and Gonzales' slide just to put Cheny in jail. Him above all else desreves the inside of a horrible, boring jail cell,

[Lorax7844]

8. I honestly don't believe that anything will happen to Cheney

unless an overwhelming majority is demanding it. At this point I am completely ready to let Chimpy off the hook, just so that we can get Dick Cheney. Sadly right now only a slight majority, 50%+, even want investigations into the torture. It is our job to talk to our friends and neighbors so that an overwhelming majority want Cheney behind bars.

[democracy1st]

9. K & R welcome

[Lorax7844]

11. Thanx

I'm so chatty now, I have posted so many more times than I did last time I was a member of this board. I guess having a democratic president and congress has made me heady. Knowing that America generally agrees with me is just too much.

[dionysus]

13. kvetching on a message board isn't holding anyones feet to the fire....

[Captain Hilts]

14. Correct. Liberals went to sleep and let conservatives pummel and influence Clinton. nt

[Lorax7844]

15. good point

[Vidar]

16. Welcome to DU & recommended.

[Phx_Dem]

17. Why do we need to hold his feet to the fire when he hasn't done anything wrong?

He's done more than any other President at this point in their first term. A little patience would be nice, he can't do everything in the first year, let alone the first 4 months.

[azmouse]

18. Honestly I think some just like saying that silly phrase.

It makes them feel tough and like they're doing something by bitching on a message board.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. Who will? Everyone is holding Obama's feet to the fire or have you not paid attention?

You people are something else.

It's like you haven't been paying attention to the last four months. As if Pres. Obama is getting a free ride from every corner of the political world. That just isn't true and stop pretending it is, ok?

Firstly, the Republicans have been holding his feet to the fire the second he was elected. Yes, elected. Not since he took office, or post-100 days, they've been gunning for him ever since he won.

That's why the second the stock market struggled with him as president, they tied it to him. They tied the recession to him. They protested his stimulus package. They protested his budget. They protested every move he did. They threw a tea-party. The former vice president essentially accused the president of making America less safe.

Secondly, the Democrats haven't been entirely easy, either. The conservatives pushed back on the stimulus, the liberals cried that it wasn't good enough. Sure, they got the votes, but that was after a fight. Then there was the discussion about the budget, which turned sour quickly because of Democrats and eventually, Pres. Obama was being attacked from the left for not doing enough and from the right of his own party for possibly reaching too much.

Thirdly, the media has been pretty relentless in holding Pres. Obama's feet to the fire ever since he took office.

And while Cheney is out there slamming our president, the Democrats caved and backtracked on Gitmo.

So we expect Pres. Obama to do all of this and yet when the going gets tough, the Democrats quickly vanish from his side.

And you wonder why he can't prosecute Bush & Cheney? It'd be a political nightmare that would end his presidency because he could never get enough political support for such a mission.

But we want him to do it anyway.

Even though it's obvious Pres. Obama is getting slammed from the left and right every time he tries to do something.

:eyes:

[azmouse]

20. Excellent post!

Should be it's own thread.

[dionysus]

21. what do you mean "you people"?

:rofl:

[Drunken Irishman]

24. LOL. I still need to see that movie!

[dionysus]

25. get on it man! excellent flick

[iamthebandfanman]

22. If i could un-recommend posts

yours would be the first ive ever done it too.

why?

because clearly u read nothing in the OP past the subject line.

Clearly republicans and the press are holding him to the fire, but over stupid dumbshit reasons... nothing of any substance.


someone has to continue to fight for liberal causes.

activism doesnt end as soon as one party gets elected over another.

wake up.

to equate the bullshit that republicans and the media complain about with what liberals in our party want to see accomplished is well... MORONIC.

(-1 recommendations)

[Drunken Irishman]

26. Well I un-recommend your post infinity.

Fight? Sure.

But I think many on the left have moved beyond just complaining and don't really get this political thing.

They expect Pres. Obama to do it all, yet every time he's met with opposition at every damn turn.

If you want his presidency to sink within the first four years, then by all means, continue hitting him from every step.

Or you can pick and choose your battles. Unfortunately, that isn't the case with Pres. Obama.

He gets the most progressive economic stimulus package passed through congress since the New Deal and liberals whine it isn't enough.

He tries to push through a stable budget that funds programs sorely lacking in funding and conservative Democrats say he's spending too much. Liberal Democrats, well they're silent in supporting Pres. Obama.

He tries to overhaul healthcare, but has a split party to work with and a unified party on the right fully against him. Yet the liberals expect him to push through a plan that he never even promised while running for president. And when he doesn't, he's no different than the past eight years.

He closes Gitmo, then turns around and gets called soft on terror by the former vice president. The VP goes out and through a frenzy of media activity, gets Democrats in congress to actually question Pres. Obama's decision to close Gitmo. What kind of image does that set when the fucking asshole former VP can scare Democrats away that easily?

So it took Pres. Obama speaking to try and reconvince many Democrats that it's the right thing to do.

Yet even when Cheney was out there slamming and attacking Pres. Obama, what are many on the left focused on? The fact he's not living up to their standards. Well bullshit.

Hold his feet to the fire? Everyone is holding his feet to the fire. More people are holding his feet to the fire than any president in modern American history. Even Clinton wasn't pushed through the grinder this early in his term and yet people wonder why Pres. Obama isn't rushing to throw Bush & Cheney in jail?

Because he's not stupid. He understands there would never be enough support from congress to push such a measure and it would ruin his presidency. I don't fault Pres. Obama for being a realist and using realist approaches to difficult problems. This isn't the 1930s when congress fully supported the president's every move. So he has to make concessions or he's done politically.

[jaysunb]

30. This is basically want happened to Carter.

I got a WIN button in the Ford admin, but if I didn't know better I'd think Carter invented and was responsible for the great inflation of that day.
And HE had a Democratic Congress.

It aint just the Democratic pols.......

:evilfrown:

[QC]

27. Who cares about his feet? Just look at those fabulous abs!

:silly:

[whistler162]

28. There is a difference between holding his feet to the fire and

slowly turning him on a rotisserie while basting him with gasoline. Which seems to be the primary want of too many so called Democrats!

[EquallyExhausted]

29. What exactly does "holding his feet to the fire" entail?

That's what I've been wondering a lot as I've lurked around this place (I'm new). And this goes for folks in congress and other positions of power as well.

From my perspective, "holding someone's feet to the fire" involves active engagement, and not just yelling at your TV or throwing stones across the internet. It's important to actually deliver your feedback to the people you expect to represent you; that means writing letters, making phone calls, and sending emails to your congress people and senators, and the white house too. It means honestly and respectfully expressing your disagreements, and being equally ready to express your support when they do something you agree with; but most importantly it also ought to mean presenting some sort of solution or alternative that you wish they would support. It's great to be against something, but it's even better to be for an alternative as well. Instead it seems that too often people are content to settle for ranting about people's presumed motives in making decisions they agree or disagree with (something you can rarely ever really know), and growing more extreme in those characterizations to fit whatever narrative suits their position. Or people are readily available with a truckload of hyperbole in place of constructive criticism or reasoned defense, and rarely is there a suggested alternative that they are lobbying for. How exactly does that hold anyone's feet to the fire?

Just because the President or someone else does something you disagree with, tackles a problem in a way other than you'd like them to, or doesn't prioritize something as much as you'd like; doesn't mean that they have evil motivations, or that they are out to screw so and so, or that what they are doing is doomed to fail at achieving the same goal. It also doesn't accomplish anything to pretend that there's only one person that needs to be pushed in order to get something done about the things you care about, or to give more momentum to the particular way you'd like something to be done.

A lot of the time is seems that what people really want to do, isn't to take action to try and make a politician support a particular position; what they'd rather do is play armchair quarterback, ranting and distorting people's positions and pontificating about people's motives, to prove just how right they are about something, or how much someone else sucks. That's what it seems there is a lot of around the interwebs; rather than anything that might actually reach the people at the center of making these decisions, or motivate like minded people to make that happen. That kind of approach doesn't hold anyone's feet to the fire, it just makes that person feel better.

[Scurrilous]

31. Good post!

Welcome to DU. :thumbsup:

[stillcool]

33. really, really well said...

dissent appears to be nothing more than a spectator sport. There is no goal except for self expression of grandiosity, and nobody wins.

[stillcool]

32. Believe it or not...

there are people who are capable of expressing dislike at a policy stance, or be opposed to something the President is/is not doing without personally attacking someone, in order to express their opinion. There are even those that can convince others to join them in acting to achieve something for the greater good. Dissent is a wonderful, necessary tool when used in a thoughtful, convincing manner. Unfortunately that is not the intent of many people, and they appear to be the quickest to use the word 'dissent' in their combativeness. There is no shortage of self-righteous, arrogant Americans who are quick to judge, quick to react, and have no desire to look further than their nose.

[JamesA1102]

34. Obama does need to be held accountable but...

let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. In the end that is just counterproductive.