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Conservatives build opposition to Obama's health care plan... by making them look like McCain's?

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onetwo Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 09:28 AM
Original message
Conservatives build opposition to Obama's health care plan... by making them look like McCain's?
In the past week, I've heard increased chatter on TV and radio about Obama needing to tax health care benefits to pay for his "unaffordable" health care reform -- a strategy he strongly campaigned against back in the general election. And now, it appears that the discussion has evolved into one where it is presumed that this half-baked relic of the McCain campaign is a plan that Obama is not only considering, but intends to push...?

A lady from the Washington Examiner was just on MSNBC making this exact argument. I also heard similar yesterday on AM radio (standard news, not a talk show). Anybody else notice the birth of this brand new talking point?

What an interesting way for conservatives to scuttle Obama's true plans -- by dishonestly portraying them as the same as their own candidate's.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. It will be the largest middle class tax increase in history
and it will sink our party for a generation.

Of course they are trying to put it in the bill than blame Obama.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is not new.
It's one of Junior's ideas that McSame was going to follow up on.

(Bush) Eyeing A Tax On Company Benefits - December 12, 2005

Bush plan spotlights uneven tax treatment of health care benefits - January 24, 2007

It is part of a corporate scheme to end employer paid health care. This is capitulation, plain and simple.

And here I thought Clinton was too much of a centrist.
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. Conservative health care plan means pay for it yourself your on your own
that's what there proposing in a nut shell
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. WP: Tax on Medical Benefits Gains Traction **Dems saying this also....


Tax on Medical Benefits Gains Traction
Health-Care Overhaul Could Be Funded by Levy on Employer-Paid Insurance Premiums



By Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 22, 2009

A new tax on employer-provided health insurance is emerging as a likely option to finance an overhaul of the nation's health-care system, key Democrats say, despite opposition from organized labor and possibly the Obama administration.

Critical details have yet to be resolved, including whether to tax the benefits of all workers regardless of income and what portion of their employer-paid insurance premiums to tax. But the idea won a surprising degree of acceptance during a closed-door meeting of the Senate Finance Committee this week, according to several people present. And once-fierce opposition among House Democrats is softening as lawmakers confront their limited options for raising the estimated $1.2 trillion that will be needed to pay for reform over the next decade.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/21/AR2009052104184.html
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Key words in article - "closed door meeting" and "once fierce opposition
Are closed doors transparent? Didn't think so. "Once fierce opposition" DURING THE CAMPAIGN. Funny how the fierce opposition disappears when the elections are over.

Did any of the Finance geniuses say,hey, maybe we could cut some of the bloated defense spending to provide healthcare for our citizens?
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes, it was "FIERCE" BY Dems-during the campaign. And closed
door meet ups are now exceptable to many Democrats. Are they are some Dems who cut down the Clinton's for years for doing the same thing?
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. WP: Health Reform for Beginners: The Employer Tax Exclusion
actually, it is informative--with some history and with some graphs if you like visual learning:




http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/05/health_reform_for_beginners_th.html

Health Reform for Beginners: The Employer Tax Exclusion

This is why people are bored by health care policy. This, right here. The fact that the central concept in health care reform relies on the differential tax treatment of health care benefits when provided by your employer. Even italicizing that sentence doesn't make it more interesting.

But the importance of the employer tax exclusion is simple enough: The hinge question in health care reform is "where do you get the money?" And the main -- and most controversial -- pot of money in health care reform comes from the employer tax exclusion......................................................

.........The third reason is that the subsidy -- and that's what this is, a subsidy to employers who offer health care -- is very big, and quite hidden. In March 2007, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that ending all employer-related tax breaks for health care would raise $1.23 trillion between 2009 and 2012. That's more than $300 billion a year. That's much more than you'd need to pay for health care.

But it's a hard more to get your hands on. Doing so raises taxes on 60 percent of Americans. When John McCain proposed replacing it with a tax credit during the campaign, Barack Obama savaged him. Effectively. Now that Obama is president, however, he needs to capture some of this money for health reform. And so the current thinking is that you don't repeal the tax breaks. You just cap them. Maybe you cap it by income, so richer people pay more taxes. Or you cap it by the value of the health insurance plan, so premiums in excess of, say, $12,000 are taxed on whatever falls beyond the line. You argue over their regressivity rather than their very existence.

This concerns some unions, who have bargained for better-than-average benefits and don't want to see them taxed. It'll worry a lot of workers. It'll give opponents of health care reform the same attack line Obama used so effectively during the campaign. It'll give Obama's political people heartburn. But if you want to pass health care reform, it probably has to be done.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks! That is a good and informative read. nt
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Some history on Baucus--key votes.ect.......



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/23/AR2009052301893_pf.html


For Baucus, Health Care Is the Issue Of a Lifetime
Legislation Could Define His Career, His Party

By Shailagh Murray and Ceci Connolly
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, May 24, 2009


...........Liberal Democrats and constituencies such as organized labor have questioned Baucus's party allegiance since he broke ranks on President George W. Bush's 2001 tax cuts and defected two years later to support a GOP-crafted Medicare prescription drug benefit. But in 2005, Baucus helped to sabotage Bush's Social Security privatization bid, and he was willing to cross his good friend Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) on the children's health insurance bill this year in order to expand coverage to children of recent immigrants.


.........In 30 years in the Senate, Baucus has never sought party leadership positions or seized hold of a high-profile policy issue and made it his. His interests have remained mostly Montana-centric, including intricate trade and agricultural concerns.

He is best known as one of the few Western Democrats to hold on in hostile territory. Starting in 1972, when Baucus was elected to the state legislature, Montana has voted for GOP presidential candidates in every race except the 1992 one.

To hold on to his seat, Baucus has often frustrated his party in Washington. In the 1994 health-care debate, Baucus sided with the National Federation of Independent Business over Clinton's proposal on employer mandates and said proposed regional insurance cooperatives "smack of excess government and the smell of socialism."

After Bush won Montana decisively in 2000, Baucus became one of his closest allies on tax policy, and in his reelection campaign the following year, the senator ran ad footage of Bush praising his "fantastic work" on a trade bill.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. I do not think we know what the Obama's 'true' plan is as he is
waiting for something to emerge from Baucus/congress. Yes, he had his blueprint which he included in the budget but its the details what matter and they are still invisible.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Do you have access to what is referred to as his "blueprint"?
I would love to see what was included in the budget.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I thought I did but can't locate it at the moment. Sorry
drats. I thought I had it.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. If you do tumble upon it, please do post it, please. Thanks in advance. nt.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. you bet:-)
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Here it is..........
but as i said it is a blueprint.

i have it as a pdf but unable to upload on this board but it is embedded in this link.




http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/26/budget/index.html
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Again, thank you.
:hi:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. thank goodness I work for myself and don't have employer-provided health care
Edited on Sun May-24-09 12:12 PM by ima_sinnic
so I wouldn't have to be taxed any more than I already am--or are they now going to tax the self-employment tax I pay for Medicare? This "plan" will help people like me who have no insurance, how?

remember, it was a republican--Bush I, or was it Reagan--who first started taxing unemployment benefits. These bloodsuckers hate to pay taxes, but they sure like to levy them on the little people. Only their multimillionaire, billionaire cronies don't have to pay taxes. Those kind of people don't have "employer-provided health benefits," so we're shafted again.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. they call it a loophole!!
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. We The People are the employers of Congresspeople, and provide their health care
Edited on Sun May-24-09 12:14 PM by ima_sinnic
so TAX THE SHIT OUT OF THE FUCKING ASSHOLES FOR THE BENEFITS WE PROVIDE.

fucking asshole shitheads (@#*%&^
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. That should make the Obama=Bush crowd happy to swallow... hook, line and sinker.
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snowdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-24-09 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. Washington insiders are pushing the idea of taxing health benefits provided by employers. ....


I got this an email over 2 months ago...............


singlepayernews@unionsforsinglepayerhealthcare.org



show details Mar 17



Washington insiders are pushing the idea of taxing health benefits provided by employers. It is an outrageous idea that had been proposed by Presidential Candidate John McCain and rejected by the nation.



Such a tax would undermine employer based health benefits without guaranteeing the care that would come with a single payer plan.



Only through single payer can we save the $400 billion annually from the profits and administrative waste of the private insurance companies.


You can express your opposition to taxing employer health benefits and your support for HR 676, national single payer health care, here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ and here: http://www.healthreform.gov/communityreports/comments.html


The New York Times
March 15, 2009
Administration Is Open to Taxing Health Benefits
By JACKIE CALMES and ROBERT PEAR

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as “the largest middle-class tax increase in history.” Most Americans with insurance get it from their employers, and taxing workers for the benefit is opposed by union leaders and some businesses.

In television advertisements last fall, Mr. Obama criticized his Republican rival for the presidency, Senator John McCain of Arizona, for proposing to tax all employer-provided health benefits. The benefits have long been tax-free, regardless of how generous they are or how much an employee earns. The advertisements did not point out that Mr. McCain, in exchange, wanted to give all families a tax credit to subsidize the purchase of coverage.

At the time, even some Obama supporters said privately that he might come to regret his position if he won the election; in effect, they said, he was potentially giving up an important option to help finance his ambitious health care agenda to reduce medical costs and to expand coverage to the 46 million uninsured Americans. Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.

At a recent Congressional hearing, Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat whose own health plan would make benefits taxable, asked Peter R. Orszag, the president’s budget director, about the issue. Mr. Orszag replied that it “most firmly should remain on the table.”

Mr. Orszag, an economist who has served as director of the Congressional Budget Office, has written favorably of taxing some employer-provided health benefits and using the revenue savings for other health-related incentives. So has another Obama adviser, Jason Furman, the deputy director of the White House National Economic Council.

They, like other proponents, cite evidence that tax-free benefits encourage what Mr. McCain called “gold-plated” policies, resulting in inefficient and costly demands for health care and pressure on employers to hold down workers’ pay as insurance expenses rise. And, they say, the policy discriminates against those — many of whom are low-income workers — who do not have employer-provided coverage.

When Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana, advocated taxing benefits at a recent hearing of the Finance Committee, which he leads, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner assured him that the administration was open to all ideas from Congress. Mr. Geithner did, however, allude to the position that Mr. Obama had taken as a candidate.

The administration’s receptivity to the idea is owed partly to the advocacy of Mr. Baucus, whose committee has jurisdiction over tax policy and health programs, and to support from Republicans. There is less enthusiasm among Democrats in the House, though the health debate is at an early stage and no comprehensive plans are on the table.

Also, Mr. Obama’s own idea for raising revenues for health care — limiting the income tax deductions that the most affluent taxpayers claim — has run into opposition not only from Mr. Baucus but also from his counterpart in the House, Representative Charles B. Rangel, Democrat of New York, who is chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.

Mr. Obama’s proposed limit on deductions would raise an estimated $318 billion over 10 years, or half of his proposed “health care reserve fund.” That is a fraction of the revenues that could be raised from taxing employer-provided health benefits.

In the campaign, Mr. McCain estimated that taxing all health benefits would raise $3.6 trillion over a decade — “a multitrillion-dollar tax hike,” one Obama advertisement said.

The Congressional Budget Office says that including health benefits in taxable income could mean $246 billion in additional revenue for a single year. Stopping short of full taxation, as Mr. Baucus and others suggest, would mean less new revenue.

The latest government figures, for 2007, show that 70 percent of the 253 million people with health insurance received at least some of their coverage through employers. Employment-based insurance covers three-fifths of the population under 65.

Those who want to tax benefits in whole or in part make two main arguments. They say the tax exclusion is a generous subsidy that insulates employees from the true costs of health care, leading them to demand more of it and driving up overall costs. Critics also say the policy is unfair because it favors higher-income people. “It’s too regressive,” Mr. Baucus said. “It just skews the system.”

But in a blueprint for health legislation that he issued last November, Mr. Baucus said taking the exclusion on health benefits out of the tax code would go “too far” and “cause widespread disruption in employer-based health benefits.” Mr. Obama has also said he wants to preserve employer-provided coverage. Mr. Baucus, in his paper, cited other options, like taxing benefits above some value, taxing only wealthy employees or both.

However the proposal is devised, advocates will not have an easy time selling it.

Republicans, like Mr. McCain and former President George W. Bush before him, tend to favor taxing the benefits to finance other incentives for people to buy their own insurance. But given Mr. Obama’s use of the issue in his campaign, Republicans are unlikely to support a change unless the president himself proposes it, a senior adviser to Senate Republicans said.

Many Democrats, especially House liberals, are opposed. “It’s a dumb idea,” said Representative Pete Stark of California, chairman of the Ways and Means Subcommittee on Health. “We have to maintain as much as we can of the employer payments.”

Administration officials often say they will not repeat the mistakes of former President Bill Clinton, whose plan for universal health insurance collapsed in 1994. But Frank B. McArdle, a health policy expert at Hewitt Associates, a benefits consulting firm, said, “If President Obama agrees to cut back the tax break for employee health benefits, he will risk repeating one of Mr. Clinton’s errors by disrupting health insurance for people who have it and like it.”

Some big businesses consider nontaxable employment benefits a tool for recruiting and retaining workers. The United States Chamber of Commerce opposes eliminating the exclusion on health benefits, but James P. Gelfand, senior manager of health policy, said the group had not taken a position on limiting it.

Organized labor, a pillar of the Democratic Party base, considers the benefits among the union movement’s historic achievements for the middle class. But a split could be developing between the manufacturing unions, which have negotiated rich benefit packages, and the growing service employees unions, which include many low-wage workers without generous benefits.

Alan V. Reuther, legislative director of the United Automobile Workers, said: “These proposals would represent a tax increase on working families. They would undermine good health care coverage.”

But at the Service Employees International Union, which was an early supporter of Mr. Obama, Dennis Rivera, the coordinator of the union’s health care campaign, said that while his organization was “predisposed not to agree to the taxing of health benefits,” he would wait to pass judgment. The union, Mr. Rivera said, wants to see how any tax changes fit into the overall effort to revamp the health care system. “We need to see the total picture,” he said.

Distributed by:

All Unions Committee For Single Payer Health Care--HR 676
c/o Nurses Professional Organization (NPO)
1169 Eastern Parkway, Suite 2218
Louisville, KY 40217
(502) 636 1551
Email: nursenpo@aol.com

http://unionsforsinglepayerHR676.org

03/17/09
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