Insurance isn't health care.

[cliffordu]

Just sayin'

:shrug:

[Fovea]

1. I agree.

It works in the opposite way as health care.
It only does it's job right when it *denies* care to the afflicted.

[SharonAnn]

19. Bingo! People need affordable health care. Insurance may not be the answer.

[patrice]

2. We are living in a toxic culture; what we have is Sick Management.

Individual nurses and doctors Care, but all of us are trapped.

[Serial Mom]

3. Right! and healthcare is not a commodity to be sold!

[Diamonique]

4. I'm with you there.

We need to straighten out our "health care system". To hell with insurance!

A health care system (IMO) needs patients, service providers, and suppliers. Insurance companies shouldn't be part of the equation.

[ThomCat]

5. No it's not. But certain politicians are hoping people don't realize that

until it's too late.

They'll insist on voting for access to insurance plans, instead of health care. They'll crow about how they've achieved success, and a lot of people will believe them.

Then afterward everyone will find out that they're now obligated to spend a lot of money buying insurance, and still don't have complete or affordable access to health care.

:(

[Cleita]

6. A long time ago, when I was filling out my 1040 and I didn't have

health insurance, I wondered why I couldn't have health care with my tax dollars. This is what this fight is about. Of course, now I evolved enough to know that health insurance is a parasitical middleman. We don't need them there, but we do need someone to pay the bills. The logical "person" ends up being our government, who pays our health care out of our taxes like we do with seniors and Medicare.

[Oregone]

7. Well, if its single-payer, it actually pays for your care.

:)

But other than that, yeah

[MadMaddie]

8. I wonder if people realize the argument that the Repugs are

using started with the AMA and Ronnie Reagan? I listened to the commercial today...here is a link if you can stomach it. 1964
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur9RU


Here is a nice essay
http://www.larrydewitt.net/Essays/Reagan.htm


They argued that the type of healthcare we want was socialist blah, blah, blah, Drs. wouldn't be able to make decsions that were best for the patiants, drs would only be able to to treat certain patients in certain places, towns etc.

Does anyone realize that is exactly what the Health Insurance companies, HMO's etc do today? They limit specific types of care, don't dare have a preexisting condition because you won't get covered, they only pay a certain dollar amount for certain procedures. They penalize Drs for not having enough sick patients....

How the hell are so many people bamboozled by this bullshit?

[Canuckistanian]

9. Insurance companies are a third wheel

They're irrelevant. Unnecessary. Superfluous. Not needed. Not wanted. Interfering. Obstructionist. A complication.

Why people think they're a good idea is beyond me.

[progressoid]

10. Yep - I was saying the same thing on another thread.

k/r

[PatSeg]

11. Yes, yes, yes

I was just saying something to that effect today. Personally, I don't think insurance should have anything to do with health care.

[rustydad]

12. My story

My dad is 90, has Medicare enhanced. Me and my siblings take care of him in his home. But we hire a worker to be there 4 nights a week. He costs us $10 an hour for a night shift mostly sleeping. But he is not is not really a health care person, just a watch keeper. He tried to calm my dads hacking the other night with the wrong drink and my dad ended up with aspirated lungs filled with fluids. Almost died and cost a huge amount of dollars to the US to fix. It is just screwed up. Bob


episode by giving him a nutrient drink and he aspirated some of it bringing on a lung event that required four days in the hospital intensive care. a

[LWolf]

13. Keep saying it.

Somehow I don't think you'll be any more welcome in the current hearings about health "care" than those who've already been arrested and banned, but don't let that stop you.

[bluedawg12]

14. Exactly. They lose money on paying for health care.

That's quite a motive to restrict payment, isn't it?

[vaberella]

15. I thought everyone knew that. n/t

[rvablue]

16. With 4 simple words you said it all right there! Yes, some folks have insurance

pay into it for years and years.

And when they finally have to call on it, sometimes there policies are just cancelled.

It's a crime.

[grantcart]

17. a little wordy but still brilliant

[cliffordu]

18. Look who's talkin' mister "I GOT BIGGER WORDS THAN YOU....."

Don't you have to go twiddle your number twaddle someplace???

[cliffordu]

20. I'm bumping this to advertise the companion piece....

[sisters6]

21. AP Dems seek to trim health bill as estimates soar. (we will

have less of both)



Dems seek to trim health bill as estimates soar
AP



By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent David Espo, Ap Special Correspondent – 11 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Confronting cost estimates as high as $1.6 trillion, Senate Democrats agreed Tuesday to scale back planned subsidies for the uninsured and sought concessions totaling hundreds of billions of dollars from private industry to defray the cost of sweeping health care legislation. At the same time, key Democrats disagreed openly among themselves over a proposed tax on health insurance benefits to pay for expanding coverage to the uninsured.

And attempts to reach a compromise with Republicans over a role for government in the insurance marketplace proved elusive.

.....................

The meeting would mark the first public drafting session in either chamber on legislation to control the costs of health care while expanding coverage to the nearly 50 million who lack it — a goal that President Barack Obama has placed atop his domestic agenda.

Separately, the Senate Finance Committee is expected to begin work next week on a companion measure. Several officials said the Congressional Budget Office had issued a cost estimate of $1.6 trillion, with only about $560 billion paid for. They spoke on condition of anonymity, saying the matter was confidential.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the panel, dismissed the estimates as outdated, and officials predicted the final bill would come in under $1 trillion.

..............

In a brief interview with The Associated Press, Baucus also disclosed he was "very close" to agreement with a handful of industry groups for them to accept hundreds of billions of dollars less in Medicare and Medicaid fees than they currently are projected to receive. He said the talks have involved insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, pharmaceutical firms and the makers of medical devices, among others, but did not provide a specific figure for the savings overall.

At the same time, officials said cost constraints were forcing Democrats in both committees to refine their plans of offering federal subsidies to help the uninsured buy health coverage.

At the Senate Health panel, officials said that after penciling in subsidies for families with incomes as high as $110,000, or 500 percent of the federal poverty level, they would limit the help to families up to $88,000 in income, or 400 percent of the poverty level. A preliminary CBO estimate on that measure, released Monday, calculated a cost of $1 trillion.

The emerging Finance Committee bill also cuts off subsidies at 400 percent of the poverty level, but officials said that might be lowered due to cost concerns.
................

To pay for the legislation, Baucus has signaled he intends to propose a tax on health insurance benefits for individuals with the costliest health insurance coverage, possibly plans with premiums totaling more than $15,000 between employer and employee combined. Obama campaigned aggressively against the idea when Republican rival Sen. John McCain proposed it during last year's presidential campaign.........................

[cliffordu]

22. I'll bet medicare gets 'trimmed' too......

that means I'll get treatment trimmed.