Need help debunking Bush military service, converting right winger

[toska]

I received the following article from my dad and an email chain sent around his office. Having followed the whole Bush's military record issue here on DU, I know there alot of debunking sites out there. But if I send him a "liberal" site he'll just dismiss it without reading.

http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx

What are the best sites to just the facts, especially the service records that show this author is pulling Bush's hours in the guard out of his ass?


A related point, has anybody put together a right-wing conversion kit? We got into a heated argument over the weekend about Kerry. My dad has bought the republican lie's hook line and sinker. It's so frustrating.

[trotsky]

1. http://www.awolbush.com

Might not meet your criteria for not being a "liberal" site but it is by far the best collection of all the relevant materials & documentation.

[Sparkly]

2. Here are the records at USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm

You can find the one showing he didn't take his flight physical, the one with "not observed" throughout, and the the pay records with long gaps.

[arbusto_baboso]

3. Try www.phonyfighterpilot.com ....

The site author is a registered Repub, and a Vietnam vet pilot, himself. This site RIPS * a new one with extreme prejudice, and brings up some questions that haven't even been speculated here on DU.

[Rambis]

4. Here is a great one

From most accounts, Bush appears to have received preferential treatment to get into the Air National Guard and avoid the draft after he graduated from Yale University in 1968. He was initially regarded as a good pilot, but his performance faded over his final two years in the Guard and he was suspended from flight status. He did not fly for the remaining 18 months he served in the Guard, though he was obligated to do so.

And for significant chunks of time, Bush did not report for duty at all. His superiors took no action, and he was honorably discharged in 1973, six months before he should have been.





http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-AIRPAPER-357916.php

[cleangreencar]

7. Use the repugs sources against themselves

Get a copy of "Unfit for Command" (fucking steal it) and go through it with a highlighter. I read it myself and found lots of inconsistancies and misrepresentations. Fact check it yourself and print up the opposing view to go along with the specific passages. Give the whole pile to him to read through. If you put a good effort in, he'll have to read it all.

[punpirate]

5. Okay, here's the skinny that bypasses this...

... horseshit based on the best interpretation of Bush's record. Bush signed an agreement before he began flight training saying that he agreed to fly for five more years upon completion of basic flight training.

He completed basic jet flight in late Nov., 1969. His requirement was 60 months from that date. He stopped flying Apr. 16, 1972. That means that he still owes the ANG almost 31 months of flight time.

He evaded not one, but two, flight physicals, in May, 1972 and May, 1973. Official orders (signed by a general) from the National Guard Bureau removed him from flight status in Aug., 1972 and ordered him to take his physical, which he did not do.

All this has nothing to do with the latest CBS flap--these are official orders released by Bush through the WH.

Bush sneaked out on his obligations. Purely. Simply.

Tell your freeper friends that they should be so lucky as to get Dubya's treatment in the guards.

Cheers.


edit for syntax

[City Lights]

6. Link to review of his records by retired Colonel:

http://www.glechliter.glcq.com/critical_analysis.htm#_Toc69716421

This originally appeared in the NYTimes, but I couldn't find a link directly to the Times.

[Mixxster]

8. Here's the Times link:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/opinion/lechliter.pdf

[City Lights]

13. Thanks, Mixxster. I'm going to save this link for

future reference.

[toska]

9. Thanks to everyone

You guys are great. It's always amazing how quickly DU can pull things together.

[cheshire]

10. here:

http://www.tompaine.com This guy has been after this for awhile. There are also copies of docs here http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003220.html I don't know of a republican site that would tell the truth and your Dad sounds like he is not willing to hear the truth. Good luck.

[MsTryska]

11. how about the airforce times piece someone else had put up today?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-AIRPAPER-357916.php

[toska]

12. Trying to stay away from CBS documents

The airforce times article refers to the CBS documents. I'm trying to avoid using those because it would shift the debate to the forgery question.

[toska]

14. airforcetimes is good

I reread the article and it uses the CBS interview with Ben Barnes, not the memos.

[Rambis]

15. These are the facts of this case and they are undisputed

NO ONE HAS EVER CLAIMED THE CONTENT OF THE MEMOS ARE INCORRECT.