By negotiating with big pharma, the White House pits pharma against insurance companies.

[ncteechur]

I believe that some degree of health care reform will pass and I think the President has told pharma that they want to be on the right side of it.
So by brining them in, he takes them off of the opposing side.

I think it is brilliant.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. The insurance industry is working for the Obam bill as well. That way we know the

reforms will benefit both the health insurance industry and big pharma.

Yea!

[NJCher]

2. read the Business Week article

It tells how they have won and will profit from this bill.

It's sickening.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5


Cher

[ncteechur]

3. Which bill? I didn't know one had passed.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. HR3200 passed out of the 3 committees, and the HELP bill passed out of the HELP committee.

AHIP is on board with Obama.

[Phx_Dem]

24. This is a House bill only, which means it nowhere near final.

[Hutzpa]

38. It's not even a house bill

it's one of those repugs talking point, a put together (cut and paste) blog of complete
distortion that was debunked by KO and Rachel this evening.

[Hutzpa]

37. Where did you get HR3200 from?

here; http://tomdaly.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/hr-3200-a-line-by-line-analysis/

you finally disappoint me....I'm I surprise(?) NOT!!

Thats your talking point(?) :wow: Now we know who you really are...

[shraby]

5. Yeah, business week would be such a good source for

honest information! :sarcasm:

[Better Believe It]

19. Read the article before you dismiss it.

You don't review movies you haven't seen, do you?

[Phx_Dem]

23. What bill would that be? The Senate hasn't passed anything

yet let alone sent anything into conference. Who knows, maybe they won't pass anything and we won't get health care reform. Then you'll really have something to cry about.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ncteechur]

4. So remind me who is in such strong opposition to HCR

[John Q. Citizen]

6. That would have been the Democraticly controlled congress, the left, and smaller

insurance companies who were excluded from the secret meetings where the massive unexplainable bill was drawn up by a few hundred hand picked people. And of course the Repos.

Here; this is written by an insider in the process.

November 12, 2007

Getting the Facts Right
Why Hillary's Health Care Plan Really Failed
By VICENTE NAVARRO

http://www.counterpunch.org/navarro11122007.html

Scroll down the page a little to get to the article.

You do know that AHIP,(Association of Heath Insurance Plans) Big Pharma, The Hospital Association, The Ama and others are all on board with Obama for mandatory purchase of private insurance, right? They all did news conferences together, they all went to the meetings together and AHIP has repeatedly and publicly supported the Obama plan and still supports the Obama plan.

[nightrain]

8. thank you for the link to the Navarro piece. I hadn't seen it previously, and

I have great respect for him over the years.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. it's important to know what happened in the past so that we can plan for the future.

So many people are absolutely clueless as to what happened in 1993 with the Clinton managed care boondoggle.

[nightrain]

11. 1993 isn't so far in the past for me. I've supported single payer since the late 70s.

Navarro was someone I read voraciously back then...

[John Q. Citizen]

12. That's interesting. You were part of the first wave of reform. i didn't get into

the health care movement until 1990. I was in high school back in the early 70s

Have you read Kip Sullivan's recent articles?

http://www.pnhp.org/blog

[nightrain]

16. I just finished reading it. Fantastic rebuttal. I hope it gets more play here.

Yeah, I spose I might be a few years older than you. I studied health policy and planning in the late 70s before clinical training in two fields.

I appreciate your posts.

[ThomCat]

33. Excellent blog. Thank you for posting that.

:)

[Autumn]

14. I am recommending this OP strictly

for your post and the link. Thank you.

[Dinger]

10. "Some Degree Of Health Care Reform"?

I want single payer, period, not "a degree" of it. Call me greedy if you like, but I want it all.

[leftofthedial]

13. I want some of whatever you're smoking

[Cha]

17. You have enough of your own

shit.

[backscatter712]

15. I think that is the strategy.

I'm thinking that while Obama may have given too much away in terms of giveaways to the pharmcos, playing these games and pitting the lobbyist groups against each other is fundamentally a good strategy - Clinton didn't do that in 93 the last time we tried health care reform, so they formed a united front, and the bill got crushed.

Here, we're starting to see the AMA and PhRMA actually warming up to us, and even Walmart has expressed support for health care reform. AHIP's finding itself getting more and more isloated.

[flyarm]

39. Wow some here are in such denial it is really pathetic! You must love living in

"fantasy land" ..all lollipops and sunshine ..

Are you seriously this delusional????????

Do I ever have some land for you!!..or a couple of bridges...real cheap!

The sad thing is ..it is people under these delusions that screw all of us..because they stay in such denial..so long that when the screwing comes ..we all get screwed..because they will say over and over..trust ..trust the pres..trust the congress , trust the senate, trust big Pharma, trust the insurance co..when the rest of us are screaming fire..they just keep trusting and trying to bully us to trust and be as ignorant as they are..

Well look little sweetie..with the lolipops..I have worked for Health care reform for most of my life..and I have heard all the lolipop stories ..and I have seen nothing get done but we the people keep getting a bigger and bigger screwing..

I am sick of seeing childern in this country going without health insurance..i am sick of seeing grandma's and grandpa's having to decide between food and their meds..

enough..if you can't figure out what the hell is happening and you want to stay in fantasy land..please get the fuck out of the way and let us grownups get the job done..just go over and sit in a corner and be silent..because all the wishing and fantasy land bullshit you want to fill your little head with is not what is happening..

shhh..just go..in the corner..

fantasy hour is over.

You are going to be mandated to pay for health insurance..by the government..if you don't buy it you will be fined or it will be taken out of your tax returns..as a fine. The health insurance companies are going to get their biggest windfall ever!
None of the plans currently written cover more than 10 million people..we have almost 50 million people with no insurance..that means the public option so far put forward will only cover 1/5 of those people..
the rest will fall into the mandated group..and only congress knows what deal was struck to how much that mandate will be! Nothing in the plans so far bring down the prices of meds! And none of any of these plans begin ..that means start up..until 2013..well after the election ..so you can't do dick squat about how good or bad it is in an election!

So you keep dreaming those pie in the sky dreams ..while we all take a screwing because you love fantasy land so much!

[uponit7771]

18. Divide and conquer to some degree, Big Pharma will only have a generation left

...after they collapse too

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Funneling money to big pharma and the insurance industry will hurt them? How?

[Better Believe It]

20. Big Pharma and the insurance industry are not fighting each other

They both expect to do very well with mandated private insurance and no public option.

[ThomCat]

30. So far they seem to be doing very well demanding that

Universal Health care be killed and stuffed into a package labeled Universal Insurance.

You are right, they will make a killing because we will all be forced by law to become customers, and they will not be forced by law to stop denying coverage or care. :(

[Dinger]

35. + 1

[GeorgeGist]

21. Sucker

[IndianaGreen]

26. They are one and the same!

Guess who owns stocks?

[and-justice-for-all]

27. I do not think either one should have been allowed at the table..nt

[Amos Moses]

28. At some point you are going to have to be honest with yourself.

He's just another crooked politician.

[ThomCat]

29. I'm guessing you would spin anything in your own mind as somehow being

brilliant strategy. :eyes:

Obama has closed door meetings to give private concessions to big business and somehow you think this isn't a politician being a politician and giving reassurances to his corporate sponsors. Wow!

Can I have some of that powerful stuff you just smoked?

[Skittles]

31. same stuff smoked by the town hall folk

[flyarm]

40. I guess the deluded forget his promise of changing or stopping NAFTA..while he sent

his bubbas to Canada or called them in Canada and said..shhhhhhhhhhh its just a campaign promise..it means jack shit in reality..just kidding..ya know..

how's that Nafta Working our for those delusional now??????

Gee even PBS had on a CFR lady last night saying how good nafta is and the only thing bad is the USA is not letting Mexican trucks on our roadways..YET.....as according to our signatory on the treaty.

for that matter how is FISA working out for the delusional?

[debbierlus]

32. Obama VOWED that the process of health reform would be open and transparent

Then, he meets in private with the legalized drug cartel, makes a backroom deal, and he is called BRILLIANT?

Wtf?

I don't even understand the defense for Obama anymore.

I just don't get it.

Big pharm is profiteering off the backs of Americans...at a OBSCENE level. People can't afford to buy their medication EVEN with insurance coverage (I went in for a drug a couple weeks ago, with FULL coverage insurance and copays- the cost for my medicine with HALF the price paid for - 320.00 dollars of thirty pills). I left it on the counter.

These drug pimps that hold America at their mercy (pay up or suffer or maybe die) make a sleazy gesture of a deal with Obama, they are continued to be allowed to pillage the American people....

And, this is BRILLIANT.

Just stop it. Stop already. Stop defending the indefensible. Worse, stop trying to turn the indefensible into 'brillance'.

[dflprincess]

34. Cheney had closed door meetings with the oil companies and we all howled

(and rightfully so) because we all know Cheney is crook who'd run over his grandmother for a few dollars.

Obama has secret meetings with these crooks and it's "brilliant". He wouldn't do anything like this unless it was in our best interests. :sarcasm:


Go figure.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Obama's meetings weren't secret.....

The media just wants you to think that they were.


What did they tell you?....jump on in, the water's fine?

[flyarm]

41. so why is CREW suing homeland security for SS visitors records of meetings at the White House

with the top health care executives ??????????


and pssssssssssss..we all loved what CREW did during the Bush years..be careful if you attempt to throw them under the bus..

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/4155...

CREW V. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (WHITE HOUSE VISITOR LOGS - HEALTH CARE EXECS)

22 Jul 2009 // Washington, D.C. - Today, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) is filing a lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security based on the refusal of the Secret Service to provide CREW with White House visitor records under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). CREW is seeking records of visits by top health care executives in an effort to learn the extent to which these industry players may have influenced the administration’s health care policy. Simultaneously, CREW is requesting emergency relief in the form of a preliminary injunction compelling the Secret Service to process the request on an expedited basis, in view of the great public interest and debate on health care policy and the pressure on Congress to pass legislation before the August recess.

In response to CREW’s FOIA request, the Obama administration has taken the same position as the Bush administration that the records are presidential, not agency records, and that they are exempt from release because of the possibility in some instances they could reveal information protected by the presidential communications privilege. Although the White House suggested it was reviewing its policy on the release of visitor logs last month when CREW filed a similar complaint based on its request for records of visits by top coal company executives, it has to date refused to make even a discretionary release of any of the requested records. Every court to rule on the issue so far has concluded the visitor records are agency records that must be disclosed under the FOIA.


White house visitors summary in response to the CREW FOIA...
2 page pdf
http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/200... ...

[dflprincess]

42. I didn't say they were secret - I said they were "closed door"

he didn't hide that he was meeting with the crooks. Perhaps you could supply a link so those of us interested could read a transcript of the meetings.

I don't think the ones "jumping in" are the ones questioning what's going on with health insurance change.