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Just do NOT throw in the towel again.. for the Love of God..

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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:42 PM
Original message
Just do NOT throw in the towel again.. for the Love of God..
We have been fighting this battle for health care for over 40 years... '93, '94, the republicans had the usual hissy fit, and it we would not get everything.. so we folded like a cheap set of card..

Now we have a majority.. and maybe we will not get it exactly like Dennis would like..but we keep pushing our elected officials forward.

At what point in time, do we ever get it all in the first run.. NEVER.. but this commentary to flush it completely (health care) is just throwing your hands up in the air.. and telling the republicans to go for it.. again and again.

To all those so willing to fold.. GROW A PAIR.. and do not give up.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's been a little longer than that-
TRUMAN'S DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION ACCEPTANCE SPEECH
July 15, 1948
"I have repeatedly asked the Congress to pass a health program. The Nation suffers from lack of medical care. That situation can be remedied any time the Congress wants to act upon it."

Wrap yourself around that quote.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It has been longer.. thank you for the reminder
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Welcome.
Not ready to give up. However, a bill without a strong and robust public option is the same as no bill at all for my money. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Im only willing to give up because I no longer believe our side
has the balls to fight for whats right.

We will get another insurance profit increasing piece of crap just so our party can claim they "did something", and thats unacceptable, as it will only exacerbate the financial misery health care has come to represent for the bottom two thirds of Americans.

Nothing would be preferable to that.
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solstice Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Same here. Not much point in fighting for the same old same old.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Well here you go.. get out of the foxhole,.. because the rest of us are still fighting
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. I couldn't agree more-Time to spine up, not waffle!
Take the talking points to the streets-stores-signage anywhere you can get away with it-THIS IS WAR.
Sadly it is a war against the loudest most base/ignorant segment of America I have ever seen. It is NOT going to be easy. Obama never said it would be.

Remember to point out Insurance excess profits. Then the global market disadvantage it puts us in...
How much Pharma profits from them daily. These points work because they are relevant & factual. Too bad the media would never take such a stance.

It is up to us folks!
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. It really is.. we are letting the right gin up the low information types
and racists.. and get all the coverage.. it is up to us to let our congresspeople know that they are not out there all alone facing the limbaugh people
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Two excellent articles linked at this thread...
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 02:00 PM by slipslidingaway
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6258429&mesg_id=6258429

This is a snip from the second article...

"There have been three cycles of health care reform in the last half century – 1970-73, 1992-1994, and 2007 to date. At the dawn of each cycle, single-payer legislation had already been introduced. But early in the cycle, single-payer legislation was “taken off the table” (to quote a statement Sen. Max Baucus now wishes he had never made). Each time the Democratic leadership chose instead market-based proposals that had no track record and no evidence to support them. Each time they favored reform deemed more “politically feasible” than single-payer because it left the insurance industry in place. In all three cycles, the alternative, market-based proposal was promoted by one or two policy entrepreneurs (that is to say, it wasn’t an idea that bubbled up from the grassroots)...


Déjà vu

The cycle we’re in now bears many similarities with the last two cycles. When this cycle began (2007 is as good a year to pick as the first year of this cycle, although that is somewhat arbitrary), single-payer legislation was better positioned than ever before to be taken seriously by Democrats...


The Herndon Alliance was founded in 2005 by many of the same groups that would create HCAN in 2008. The Herndon Alliance paved the way for HCAN’s promotion of the “public option” with some laughable “research” claiming to find that Americans want a “public-private-plan choice” approach and don’t want a single-payer system. I have written elsewhere about the bogus “research” conducted by the Herndon Alliance. Suffice it to say here the Herndon Alliance cooked up a new and more insidious version of the “political feasibility” argument.

Until about 2007, when the Herndon Alliance first began publishing its “research,” there was only one variant of the “political feasibility” argument, the one that said the insurance industry is too powerful to beat. The Herndon Alliance variant claimed single-payer is not feasible because Americans don’t want it. According to this variant, American “values,” not the insurance industry, are actually the greatest impediment to single-payer. According to the Herndon Alliance, Americans “value choice of insurance company” and “they like the insurance they have and want to keep it.” HCAN and Hacker picked up these refrains and promoted them vigorously to the public and to members of Congress. This inexcusable attack on single-payer no doubt helped key committee chairs in Congress (Kennedy, Baucus, Waxman, Rangel and Miller) feel more comfortable taking single-payer off the table and concentrating on the “public option.”

By early 2009, it was clear the Hacker-HCAN-Herndon Alliance propaganda for the “public option” and against single-payer had worked with the Democratic leadership, and that the Democratic leadership would fall once again for a market-based alternative and remove single-payer from the table. The removal of single-payer legislation took place without the firing of a single shot in public by the insurance industry and the right wing. It took place at the request of the “yes but” wing..."


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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. I will not give up.
I'm discouraged and tired, but I will keep fighting.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. ...
:fistbump:
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. ...
:fistbump:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. "Do not throw the towel in again" That is Exactly what single-payer
advocates have been saying, everytime the Democrats tried to compromise in the past, the people lost.

Why have our politicians thrown the towel in might be the more appropriate question.

:shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6258429&mesg_id=6258429

Reply to critics of Bait and switch: How the public option was sold
http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/08/reply-to-critics-of-%E2%80%9Cbait-and-switch-how-the-%E2%80%98public-option%E2%80%99-was-sold%E2%80%9D/

"...Single-payer legislation was the first out of the chute during the 1970-1973 cycle. In January 1970, Sen. Ted Kennedy introduced what we would today call a single-payer bill. But Kennedy and other leading Democrats quickly abandoned single-payer in favor of a theory about cost containment called the “health maintenance strategy.” This strategy revolved around a new-fangled type of insurance company proposed by a Minnesota physician named Paul Ellwood that Ellwood called the “health maintenance organization.”


....Two decades later, when the 1992-1994 cycle opened, single-payer legislation was not only in place in Congress it had also been introduced in many states (the first state single-payer bill to be introduced was introduced in Ohio’s legislature in 1990). The first modern-day single-payer bill was introduced in the US House by Rep. Marty Russo (D-IL) in 1991 and in the Senate by Senator Paul Wellstone in 1992. But as was the case during the previous cycle, the Democratic leadership was seduced by an alternative to single-payer. Once again, Paul Ellwood played an important role in luring Democrats away from single-payer.

Late in 1992, candidate Bill Clinton was persuaded by representatives of a group Ellwood helped form, the Jackson Hole Group, to support something called “managed competition.” The Jackson Hole Group was a coalition of insurance company executives and conservatives who met regularly at Ellwood’s mansion in Jackson Hole, WY. The theory of “managed competition” held that if the insurance “market” were tweaked (with report cards on insurance companies, for example), competition between insurers would intensify, Ellwood’s beloved HMOs would gradually seize more market share, and this would drive industry-wide premiums down. Clinton’s endorsement of “managed competition within a budget” catapulted what might have remained an obscure idea into the political lime light. When Clinton was elected, single-payer legislation once again languished while the Clintons, with help from groups like Families USA, AFSCME, and Citizen Action (now called USAction), flogged their managed competition bill. The 1994 cycle ended with the death of Clinton’s bill in September 1994, and the unraveling of similar managed competition legislation enacted in Minnesota and Washington.

Déjà vu

The cycle we’re in now bears many similarities with the last two cycles. When this cycle began (2007 is as good a year to pick as the first year of this cycle, although that is somewhat arbitrary), single-payer legislation was better positioned than ever before to be taken seriously by Democrats. Single-payer bills had been introduced in several states as well as the US House (Sen. Bernie Sanders would introduce a single-payer bill in the Senate in 2008). Polls were showing that two-thirds of Americans and 60 percent of doctors support single-payer (or “Medicare for all”) legislation.

But once again an articulate policy entrepreneur appeared on the scene to sell a market-based alternative to single-payer that would leave the insurance industry at the top of the health care food chain, and once again the Democratic leadership fell for it. This time the entrepreneur was not Paul Ellwood. This time the policy entrepreneur was Jacob Hacker, a professor of political science at Berkeley..."



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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. If we can't primary the DLC out in '10 then I'll be voting 3rd party in the general.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Granted we all have arguments with certain segments of the party..but we cannot oust
everybody.. if we cannot find some common ground among our own.. how in the world do we expect to get anything with the other side.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. I have not given up on health insurance reform
But I will NOT support a bill that will destroy the democratic party. And mandate with no options is just that. I will keep calling my congressmen and senators untill the day something is finalized.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. No public option? NO DEAL!
That's the one line in the sand. Anything short of that, I oppose.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. it's not about "exactly like Dennis would like"
we already know single payer is off the table. It never was allowed near the table.

There is increasing talk of no public option, in which case health insurance reform (and that's what Obama is calling it now) should be actively opposed, as it will be nothing more than a government granted mandate for the insurance companies to go on screwing us.

If that is what Congress puts before Obama, let's hope he has the balls not to sign it...
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