Based on Ax comments today, Does that means PO is dead?

[ind_thinker2]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/18/us/politics/AP-US-Obama-Health-Care.html?_r=1


another NYT opinion that explains PO

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/opinion/18sun1.html

[CJCRANE]

1. It's like Schrodinger's cat.

Neither dead or alive.

[depakid]

14. +1

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkana]

8. Too bad the "WE HATES OBAMA, YES, PRECIOUS WE DOES" crowd

has declared the public option dead about 100 times already.

[DJ13]

9. Does your opinion on social issues change from day to day?

No, Im sure it doesnt.

So why give the WH a pass on changing their opinion on the most important social issue of this year on a day to day basis?

[Arkana]

12. As far as I can tell their opinion hasn't changed.

You're just seeing what you want to see.

[Baltoman991]

15. Pom pom crowd?

How about we call you part of the "liars" crowd? Because thats exactly what you're doing when you continue to say that Obama never wanted the Public Option.

Daily, you continue to do the work of the right wing.

And yeah, I know my post will be pulled because hey, folks can spew the right wing "cheerleading" meme but don't anyone dare call them on it.

[Clio the Leo]

16. Which is why they have gone to every effort to battle the House's attempts to include it...

.... um ........ no.

Rahm has very plainly said he thinks the House will not accept a bill w/out a PO...

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/09/25/latest-public-option/

.... and the President keeps insisting we'll have a bill by the end of the year.

Us cheerleaders are able to put two and two together. ;)

Emanuel said this morning the same thing the WH has been saying for months, that the President believes the PO is important in insuring that the basic princilpes of the bill that he asked for will be met. How anyone can presume from that that the PO is dead is beyond me.

[rug]

3. No, it means they think it's not worth fighting for.

[bluestateguy]

4. The public option has been declared "dead" about 15 times now since August

If you have to declare something "dead" 15 times over 2 months, then it's probably stronger than anyone appreciates.

[backscatter712]

5. No, this is your classic tactic called "Lowering of expectations"

which means exactly nothing after today is over, except that if Obama does succeed in getting a public option in the bill, he'll look so much better for it.

Really, I've seen this kind of kabuki theater over and over on the bobblehead shows, and I'd take it with a huge grain of salt.

[SpartanDem]

6. No it's the same as it's always been

that is Obama wants it, but isn't drawing a line in the sand

[Pab Sungenis]

7. It was dead the minute we allowed the Baucus bill to pass.

We gave Obama and Reid all the coverage they needed to kill it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. The Baucus bill NEEDED to pass

to keep the process moving forward AFAIK. If 4 of the 5 variants of HCR legislation have a PO, I'd say that it's going to be pretty hard NOT to end up with a PO in the final version since it still needs to go through the (full) Senate, House, and, of course, then a Conference Committee. I'd say the odds of the Baucus HCR bill being the "final version" (assuming, of course, the House Dems in particular, stick to their guns- which I think is a fair assumption given the attitude of most House Dems) becoming law are infinitesimally small to none IMHO. As long as Dems in the Senate are willing to hold the line and close ranks against a Republican filibuster, I think that a PO can ultimately get through and, so far, it seems like most Dems in the Senate will vote against an inevitable filibuster if not the final legislation itself. In any event, the PO is NOT dead yet, Baucus bill or no Baucus bill. Have heart.

[Pab Sungenis]

31. Better it didn't move forward than it moves forward in a bad way.

You'll see. Reid will use the Baucus Bill as cover to leave the public option and all real reforms out of the "merged" bill. Republicans and Blue Dogs will filibuster any attempt to put the reforms back in. The bill will either die in conference or make conditions worse if it does pass.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

32. We shall see

I don't think we'll see a great bill come out of the Senate. In fact, I think that the initial Senate version WILL likely be PO-less. However, I believe that it will likely be put back in at Conference at which point there will have to be some legislative strategy devised to get it through the Senate. As long as the Blue Dogs don't join in on an inevitable Republican filibuster, there should be enough Senators supporting a PO (I believe that there are 54-56 Senators at last count who support a PO) to get a bill through with it. However, yes, much remains to be seen at this point.

[dionysus]

23. that would be the cynical "obama is personally behind killing healthcare" whackadoo approach, yes.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Nope, it means that the progressive caucus needs to hold their ground

Despite the fact that all of the focus is on the Senate, a bill can't become law if it doesn't pass the House.

[Aramchek]

11. nice try. we keep getting told by morons that the PO is dead, and it keeps living on

[Jennicut]

13. How many times can the thing die?

It must be a zombie.

[Clio the Leo]

17. Where in that article does Ax mention the PO?

.... if it's there, I'm not seeing it.

Why presume that compromise will come from the left? ..... If the Blue Dogs voted for cloture but not the various amendments they are opposed to ..... well, that's what you call compromise. ;)

[Baltoman991]

19. I'm honestly

starting to believe we have a bunch of game players here. Day after day after day we get threads started proclaiming the PO dead on arrival.

That and the meme about the Baucus bill being the only bill that will matter even though many here have tried to show that the only reason Obama was "pushing" the Baucus bill was to get it out of committee so the real damn work could get started.

[dionysus]

22. are you saying you notice a trend?

;)

[freddie mertz]

20. It means the WH will not insist on it.

They have let it go, at least in terms of public comment..

The House may save it, but they are the only ones.

What a fiasco this has been.

[dionysus]

21. no, so give it up already.

[Mass]

24. The media have been predicting th death of the public option since July.

While I would prefer the WH to be a little more sanguine about the importance of the PO, I would not let AP and other MSM make me think it is dead. They clearly have decided of their meme a while ago. It is our role to make clear that we do not believe this.

AS Harkin said, there may be about 55 votes for the public option. Put it in the bill and make the 5 other Dems responsible of whether they want to be obstructionist because of ONE thing.

[andym]

25. Everytime an interviewer asks about the public option

and gets a "we really want one, but we won't demand one" response,
the followup question should be:
"OK, well if you don't have a public option, how are you going to keep the insurance companies honest, and insurance affordable?"

[high density]

33. That would make too much sense

It's much easier to just run with the continuous "Obama is wishy-washy on public option" meme and keep both sides incensed.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

26. I think the Public Option is far from dead they're just being patient and methodical.

[CTyankee]

27. I continue to believe that. Some of this is just a feint to throw off the opposition.

I truly believe that Obama is strong on the PO and will fight like hell for it. As you put it, "methodical" in getting people in line with us on hcr and bringing them along...

[joeycola]

28. AX has been talking this wishy washy stuff for months now. Nothing new.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. Yep. The administration has been refusing to draw a line in the sand this whole time.

Which is bad. But it's not new.

[joeycola]

30. It will hurt folks who are underinsured, or anyone without insurance AND

even those with insurance. all because Obama and many in congress have weak spines.

[TheKentuckian]

34. No, it means the same damn thing it did last week, last month, and several months ago

They literally and nearly verbatim say the exact same thing every week. I don't so much care that people freak out as it keeps the heat on but my feeling is people are freaking out rather than being determined, which over the long term is a negative. People get frayed, slip into despair, and eventually give up which is the only way we truly lose.

I wish more folks could keep the war drums beating without the hyperbole and panic but if this is what it takes to keep everyone up for the game then I won't bitch too much but this isn't healthy or sustainable over the long term.

[demwing]

35. Mindfuck Alert