It's Elementary! Nydia Stone, Cuban, is Lucy Ramirez: TANG fakes are GOP!

[Dems Will Win]

Unknown Man with the Envelope
and Lucy Ramirez??

I’ve called you all into the parlor this evening to announce that I have cracked “The Strange Case of the TANG Forgeries”. We all now know that Bill Burkett says he was told about the documents by a certain “Lucy Ramirez” and that he was given the forgeries by “an unknown man with an envelope” who turned and left after making the hand-off.

Here with us tonight are Roger Stone, the famous, or should I say infamous, dirty trickster of the Nixon, Reagan and Bush eras.

Also joining us tonight is Mr. Stone’s lovely wife Nydia Bertran-Stone, a fiery Cuban rightwinger, who incidentally helped him arrange for Cuban righties to come down to the Miami courthouse, riot, and steal the election for George W. Bush in 2000. Stone was personally asked by James Baker to come down and oversee the illegal tactic.

And guess who James Baker also asked to come and riot, Harry W. MacDougald, the “eagle-eyed” Buckhead, who announced the TANG documents were forgeries almost immediately, as if he had been forewarned. Mr. MacDougald is here with us as well. So Stone and Buckhead rioted together. Harry W. MacDougald is actually part of a gang of Republican lawyers who will do almost anything for the GOP.

Mr. Stone is notorious for his electioneering dirty tricks for years. His first election fraud was to open a bank account with a phony name called The Young Socialist Alliance and send a campaign contribution to Pete McCloskey, an antiwar Republican in the Seventies, who was thinking of running against Nixon in 1972. As soon as the check cleared Stone then promptly called the press, claiming funding from Socialists for McCloskey!

Mr. Stone next honed his dirty tricks skills while working with Karl Rove in the Nixon White House. Need I say more? Please forgive me then, for I shall.

We also know Mr. Stone planted an Buchanan child story in the Washington Post to sink Pat Buchanan’s 1992 campaign for President and then made a flyer about it, according to Mattie Lovlar, on retainer to Stone at the time who said he “worked at planting the story”. Stone denied it saying: "I remember getting a call or two saying this stuff was out there. If there was a flyer, it wasn't from Roger Stone."

In 2000, Baker calls MacDougald, Stone to Miami to organize the riot that stole the election for Bush. Nydia Stone organizes the Cubans who participated. Afterwards Dick Cheney himself called Mr. Stone and asked him what he wanted for his sterling service to the gang, didn’t he Roger? Stone soon had lucrative consulting contracts adding up to tens of millions of dollars from Indian gaming concerns.
From this point on, Roger and Nydia Stone were Karl Rove’s top covert operatives, off the payroll but paid off in substantial consulting contracts on the side, especially with the Indian casinos.

In 2002, Stone disrupts the career of BIA Deputy Undersecretary Wayne Smith who might have opposed his clients on a casino case. A fake letter and the planting of a story with Time Magazine through a Democratic operative was involved, Mr. Stone’s Modus Operandi. Stone denied it, however, saying: “Mr. Stone believes that an individual by the name of Mike Copperthite is claiming to have provided the information to Time magazine at Mr. Stone’s instigation." The statement says this claim is "false in all respects."

Next, Mr. Stone actually became the campaign manager for Democrat Al Sharpton, probably at the request of Karl Rove. This was a blatant attempt to conflate Sharpton with the word “Democrat” and sink the ticket by a more impressive and funded Sharpton campaign.

During the Democratic primaries, the AWOL charge came up. Karl Rove, alarmed at this turn of events, decided to forge documents that were based on real documents, with truth in them that reflected badly on the President, but that were fake. If he could get the DNC or the Kerry campaign to run with them, the cry of forgery could be used to shut down all talk of Bush’s National Guard service, once they were exposed. A simple plan, Nazis did it all the time.



Dr. H20 Man and Dems Will Win examine the copy
of the copy of the copy of the TANG forgery.

Only Rove, with Bartlett’s help, could have made the forgeries, for Bartlett was an expert on the TANG records and had documents not yet released to the press, including no doubt the Knox memos. Rove would have kept the forgers’ circle small, with as few in the know as possible. They forge the memos, originally typed by Mrs. Knox on an old Olympia manual, on a military electric typewriter of the time.
Scotland has just sent me the forensic analysis and I am holding it here in my hand. It definitively proves the documents were forged using an electric typewriter of the time. Rove and Bartlett knew that whoever received the fake documents, an authentication process would have taken place no matter who the forgeries were given to. So they used a typewriter.

Please pass around the forensic analysis: http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm

The real part of proving forgery lies not in fonts or spacing but in the content, as Staudt was named in the memos as still having command power long after he had left. Plus Mrs. Knox had an old Olympia manual typewriter that she says she typed something similar on. So there were real memos at some point but they are on an old manual!

The Staudt mistake was a deliberate falsity planted by Rove to discredit the whole batch to the press later. No doubt the memos were included in the original records after Killian died or Bartlett sought them out, knowing Killian did not like Bush!

With the forgeries in hand, Rove or Bartlett call up Roger Stone—someone who would never talk and the only person Rove could give this particular job to. Rove then gets Stone the TANG forgeries. Nydia Stone, who has a Cuban accent, and has a long history of right-wing politics, having been Nixon’s personal photographer and a photographer at the Reagan White House, offers to play the part of the damsel in distress, Lucy Ramirez. The Stones, who love to put on a good show, are thrilled to be “back in action”.

Bill Burkett was the perfect patsy selected by Rove and Bartlett, having had a history of mental illness and known to hate Bush. A Democratic plot would have never chosen him to be the source!
“Lucy Ramirez”, really Nydia, calls Burkett from Houston and tells him of the documents, telling him he must get them to Kerry, but that he must promise to destroy the originals as soon as copies them for her sake. Burkett agrees and arranges to meet her at a livestock event in Lubbock.

But Lucy doesn’t show up. Not wanting his wife to be the one to make the handoff--it was Roger Stone delivering the hottest envelope of 2004 to Bill Burkett. Stone then turned around and left without saying a word. Burkett, being an honorable man, obeyed the damsel in distress pleas and burned the originals after copying them. "Lucy Ramirez" and the "unknown man with the envelope" disappear, with USA Today unable to track them down.

The trap is set, only Burkett doesn't call anyone about the documents until the swift boat ads appear 5 months later. He calls Max Cleland but the Kerry campaign never calls him back, likely knowing his history of mental illness and Bush hatred.

Mary Mapes of CBS, however, tracks him down in late August and asks if there is anything else he knows, as CBS prepares to air a story on the National Guard issue.

When the promos for the CBS report come on, Roger Stone phones MacDougald and the trap is set. Within hours, MacDougald has every main point in play and the game begins. But Buckhead was tipped off by Stone just that the docs were fake and so Buckhead tried to squeeze them into a forgery produced by a word processor.

Thword processor story will no longer hold up. But it just means that Rove had them typed by Bartlett on an electric typewriter of the day to replace the Knox memos that Bartlett must have also had--as he has always been in charge of the National Guard docs for the White House—as I have already explained. This makes sense as they would want the docs to look real enough for publication or even better, broadcast.

AGAIN THINK—Why would a Democrat give forged documents to a source like Burkett who could be easily destroyed as a witness? But he’s a perfect Rove patsy.

Only a Republican would do it and Roger and Nydia Stone have been in the middle of top-level dirty tricks for years. Nydia even put Al Sharpton over the top with a $250 contribution from herself and friends, when he almost didn’t make the matching fund threshold.

She is as big a right-winger as her husband is. She is no doubt Lucy Ramirez, and what I have laid out here before you is the only probable solution to the whole case, no matter how unlikely that may seem—given Rove and Bartlett’s position.

The final sign that this was a White House forgery came when the reporter interviewing Dan Bartlett noted that Bartlett’s statement that he had “no reason to doubt the memos were authentic” was emphasized so much the reporter noticed it as standing out. Bartlett recently cancelled all his appearances, possibly to avoid questioning by the other side.

Even though Rove and Bartlett were taking a tremendous risk, as I like to tell Dr. H20 Man all the time: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." And a Democrat doing this is impossible—it MUST be the White House. Roger Stone would never do this without the orders of Rove.
Roger Stone is CLEARLY the “unknown man” who gave Bill Burkett the envelope with the TANG Forgeries and Nydia Stone is “Lucy Ramirez”, who talked Burkett into believing the forgeries we real and into burning the originals. This was so annual watermarks on the paper did not give away the game too early to reach the broadcast of the fakes.

Of course Mr. Stone has issued his predictable denial, sounding much like all his other denials of his dastardly deeds: "I have nothing whatsoever to do with this," Mr. Stone told USA TODAY. "I'm a firm believer in political hardball, but I draw the line at forged documents." But even his first trick involved a phony group and name and then calling the press: the Pete McCloskey check from the "Young Socialist Alliance".

Roger Stone! I accuse you of planting the TANG Forgeries with Bill Burkett in Lubbock on March 3rd. Why have you still not provided a good alibi for your whereabouts on March 3rd, 2004?

Nydia Stone! I accuse you of being the seductive “Lucy Ramirez” who took old Burkett for a ride and pleaded with him to burn the documents to protect your honor.



Dems Will Win Turns the Notorious "Lucy Ramirez"
over to the Cyber-Bobbies

And I accuse Karl Rove and Dan Bartlett of typing the TANG fakes themselves!

I submit to all present the solution of “The Strange Case of the TANG Forgeries”. The prosecutor shall of course have to pull phone airplane and credit card records, but I’m sure Mr. Stone made the drop of the fakes himself—to follow Rove’s command to keep the circle of those in the know as small as possible. Plus Stone would not want a repeat of 1992 when he was accused by an accomplice of “planting the story”.

Now fetch me my pipe and bowl!

LINKS:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_25_51/ai_58326762

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=313

http://www.famoustexans.com/karlrove.htm

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0416/barrett.php

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0420/barrett.php

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/21/17737/0525

http://news.best-buy-online.com/News_87.html

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=&zip=...

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=&zip=...

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/09-96/09-13-96/a04...

http://www.nndb.com/people/844/000047703 /

http://portal.fightingdemocrat.com/modules.php?name=New...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/p...

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/03/09/15_recount.html


Oh by the way on the way out, could you please nominate this thread and send out an email to these chaps?

Thanks so much and pip-pip! Cheerio!


[e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail]

[papau]

1. Killian's secretary says contents correct - Media lab below says produced

via technology in effect in 72 - indeed not on the Selectric Composer but more likely on the Killian Secretary's Olympia proportional spacing typewriter. She says she typed up memos with that content - but those were not by her.

So where does the "fakes" conclusion come from? From the SOB's in the media who believe assertions by Bush are truth, that's where.

In any case, Howie Kurtz today was patting himself on the back for being the first to say they were fakes.

I do love my not controlled by the right wing GOP US Media - they just act that way.

:-)

http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm

Interactive Media Research Laboratory is a small university lab that does scholarly studies and writes about issues involving the impact of technology on communications. Among other things, it is investigates archival and authentication problems. As the principal investigator and lab director I have researched and written on these topics since 1991, with more than 50 peer reviewed publications.

In addition, I served in the U.S. military (Army) from 1963 to 1972. For five of those seven years I was an Army illustrator responsible for short run publications including memos such as those in question. Ultimately, I have a total of almost 35 years experience examining document production, including analyzing and spec’ing type. I have an archive that includes military documents produced between 1963 and 1984 and have access to a repository of military documents here at the university. Finally, I have extensive experience using computers to manage and manipulate images, including type.

Nature of the Studies

I divided the project into steps designed to identify the specific font and describe how the memos were produced.

1. Examine the physical nature of the documents. Do they look like military memos? Can they have been typed? If they were typed, did appropriate technologies exist at the time to have been typed then?

2. Identify the defining characteristics in the font used in the memos, especially focusing on the nature of the serifs but also examining the characteristics of the strokes that would be used to produce the characters. Are the serifs square or spur-like? Do the strokes vary in width or are they of consistent thickness? If some strokes vary, which ones?

3. Identify typefaces that replicated the above characteristics.

4. Identify a manufacturer who produced a typeface that fit the memos and manufactured a machine capable of producing the unique format.

5. Identify any characteristics that would indicate a typewriter and not digital impressions (e.g., worn or damaged characters).

6. Search for any typing artifacts (e.g., strikeovers).

7. Based on the above, establish a hypothesis describing how the documents may have been created and recreate scenarios that successfully reproduced the effects found in the typed memos.

OVERVIEW OF FINDINGS -- NATURE OF THE DOCUMENT

The information available in such poor reproductions is surprisingly significant.

First, The documents are not Times New Roman, or any similar font, nor are they produced with word processing software (or at least, were not printed using contemporary printing technologies). The documents are almost certainly printed using an impact printer (typewriter or daisy wheel) and are not digitally produced for the following three reasons:

1. The font is a common typewriter typeface invented at the beginning of the 20th century and in continuous use until the computer replaced the typewriter. The font’s name is “Typewriter.” Although the typeface was somewhat modified for civilian communities in the 1960s, it remained commonplace in the military well into the 1970s. In short, the Bush memos were produced in a version of Typewriter commonly used in the military at the time.

2. It is possible to find worn and damaged characters. The top left of the “t” is clearly worn to the extent that it seldom makes an impression. The “e” shows clear indications of physical damage. It appears to have three scratches and/or gouges extending diagonally down and across the bowl and across the lower stroke. The “a” and the “s” show similar indicators of wear and damage.

3. Seldom used characters such as numbers, capitals, and the lower case “o,” “q” and “p” (and the other less used lower case characters) show no signs of damage.

4. Overall inconsistency of the characters goes well beyond what one would expect from photocopying and digitizing and indicates that they were produced using an inconsistent (i.e., “mechanical”) process.

5. There are indications of white “blisters” cause by a character typed on paper that was deformed by the impact of a previously struck character.

I will leave it to others to verify my findings with additional physical evidence, but I contend that the memos were probably done in a proprietary IBM typewriter font redesigned specifically for proportional typing. In 1984, I wrote articles on an IBM Selectric that uses an uncondensed IBM equivalent. The font used in the memos is a variant of the font used in Figure 1, below.

[Dems Will Win]

2. My dear fellow I agree with you that a typewriter was used

but the incorrect dates on Staudt means it was a plant by Rove and Bartlett, there is simply no other explanation.

The worm has turned!

Fake Documents = good for Democrats!

So be for the Democrats, old chap!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

3. Do the memos say Staudt had "command power"?

I thought they (or one of them) said he merely was
putting on some kind of pressure to affect the evaluation,
easily conceivable for a retired officer.

[Dems Will Win]

4. Once you are out of the force you have no influence at this level

The command power was implied but there could have been none.

Obvious plant by Rove to prove the docs a fake later. Bartlett would have had Staudt's retirement date in the dossier.

Besides, Mrs. KNox said she did not type them, so who did and why o why would they have copied over her originals if they were Democrats, HMMM?

Why not just turn the originals over?

You see, my friend, the only way this story makes any sense is that known election document forgers on the GOP side planted the forgeries with Burkett.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

5. You understand there are people who disagree with you

on that and on the authenticity of the memos.

"So be for the Democrats, old chap!"

Are you suggesting that those of us who are not convinced
the memos are forgeries are NOT for the Democrats, old chap?

[Dems Will Win]

7. No I'm saying that if the GOP forged them and that can be proven that is

good for the Democrats. If you could but see the light we could get our meme together.

That the docs are real is an impossible argument now that even CBS has given up. We've got real lemonade from lemons but you refuse to drink.

Why did Mrs. Knox say they were fakes? She oughta know.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

10. "She oughta know. "

What precise reason did she say made her think they looked fake?
I heard her say the word "billets" was not an NG or AF term,
but an Army term. I was in the army and never heard the word
"billets." They were called barracks. I believe she said "the
form" looked different? Maybe she meant simply the form SHE
used to type. I would like to see the whole interview with
her. In any case, she could be right about the content and
wrong about them being fake.

[Dems Will Win]

15. She's really pretty clear.

Knox is 86 years old, and completely comfortable in the eye of a storm. She spent more than two decades keeping pilots and officers in line at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston. Now, she wants to set the record straight about the memos that CBS News obtained.

Knox says she didn’t type these memos, but she says she did type ones that contained the same information.

“I know that I didn’t type them," says Knox. "However, the information in those is correct.”

Knox says the information in the four memos that CBS obtained is very familiar, but she doesn't believe the memos are authentic.

-snip-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml

"Very familiar" It's more than the forms were different. Knox is unimpeachable witness in everyone's estimation.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

17. "she doesn't believe the memos are authentic"

*Why* does she not believe they are authentic, *specifically*?
The link is obvioiusly not the entire interview, if it is
even the entire portion aired.

[Dems Will Win]

16. Found the transcript for you

RATHER: Did you type ones like this?

KNOX: Yes.

RATHER: Containing the same or identical information?

KNOX: The same information, yes.

http://ratherbiased.com/content/danscript5.txt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

20. ...

"And it's not the form that i would have used."

So tell me what she meant there, dear chum.
And in any case, that wd only mean SHE didn't type them.

"And there are words in there that belong to the army, not to the air guard. We never used those terms."

What words? What terms? I heard one term was "billets" (which is not in the interview) but as I said, I was in the Army and never heard or used the term "billets." They were "barracks."

As to her scenario of how the memos came to be, she admits:
"That's all just supposition."

[Dems Will Win]

24. I'm glad you reminded me of the billets, dear fellow!

Like the Staudt error, this was another mistake, a simple change added by Rove and Bartlett that they could expose later to the press.

You really have been quite helpful tonight! Together we have tripled the number of inconsistencies introduced by Bartlett.

The form was wrong, the word billets were used instead of barracks and Staudt was treated as though he still would have the power to countermand the Bush influence.

Capital!

[AnIndependentTexan]

26. Alot adds up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=897089&mesg_id=897089

[Dems Will Win]

27. Knox: Someone took her memos - "tried to reproduce and maybe changed them"

RATHER: These memos were not memos that you typed and you don't think they came directly out of his files?

KNOX: The information, yes. It seems that somebody did see those memos, and then tried to reproduce and maybe changed them enough so that he wouldn't get in trouble over it.

OR maybe they were changed by Rove and Bartlett to expose them later as fakes.

Innocent dear she is...

[Dems Will Win]

6. I certainly hope there are no further claims that these documents are real

[Qutzupalotl]

40. They're real.

:P
Real events, real signatures, real typing (by Killian), real sentiments, real superscript key, real pressure from a former superior officer, real slackoff bozo president. REAL.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

8. It's difficult to converse with you

when you keep editing the hell out of your posts.
Just add a post, if you please, my pal.

"Command power" was your phrase. In other words, the answer
is "No, the memos do not use the words 'command power'."

"Bartlett would have had Staudt's retirement date in the dossier."

Maybe he did. Either way, not evidence for forgery.

"Besides, Mrs. KNox said she did not type them, so who did"

No idea. Not evidence for forgery.

"and why o why would they have copied over her originals if they were Democrats, HMMM?"

No evidence anybody "copied over her originals."

"Why not just turn the originals over?"

Not evidence for forgery.

"You see, my friend, the only way this story makes any sense is that known election document forgers on the GOP side planted the forgeries with Burkett."

Or that they are genuine.

[Dems Will Win]

11. Look if Mrs Knox did not type them but says there were memos like that

they were copied over. She said they were fake but the content real!

You can't say they were typed on an Olympia manual, which is what she said she had, not a ball electric.

So who redid them? Why would Killian do it? No reason.

You must use reason and logic, dear boy, not emotion to figure out a mystery.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

13. "You must use reason and logic, dear boy,"

LOFL.

"Reason and logic" like we need to "get our meme together"?

You don't care what the truth is. You've got a pet fancy and
you're trying to sell it. You may be right but at this point
it's built on the sand of a false premise.

[Dems Will Win]

18. I rather see it as a story that hangs together, that's what a detective

looks for. We have to all be detectives. The prosecutor takes weeks and months to put together the case. I'm just pointing out the obvious here.

How about that Buckhead and Stone are old friends from the Miami riot? Or that Nydia is such an ideologue like Roger she helped recruit the Cubans that were there?

This is a story with legs. Don't you see, all we have to do is find out if ROger Stone was in Lubbock on March 3, 2004 and this baby blows wide open!

And the only way to make that happen is to, yes, sell it.

[Dems Will Win]

9. If I am right, you are helping Karl Rove carry out his fiendish plot

by insisting that the documents are real, somehting few now believe, while attention should be turned to Roger Stone, who has a long history of similar scams.

If I am wrong, and you are right, no media will touch the story with a ten-foot pole. My solution not only has legs, they are the legs of Lucy Ramirez.

Who then was Lucy Ramirez? No one can find her or the unknown man.

You simply ignore all the coincidences I have brought up without refuting any of them.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. ...

"If I am right, you are helping Karl Rove carry out his fiendish plot"

You won't sway me by AGAIN suggesting we who hold the docs MAY BE real are on the Repukes' side.

"by insisting that the documents are real"

I am not insisting they're real. I am saying there is no convincing proof that they are fake.

"somehting few now believe"

I don't care who believes anything or not. I think for myself.

"If I am wrong, and you are right, no media will touch the story with a ten-foot pole."

Not if evidence surfaces that prove their authenticity, which is
at least as likely as your scenario.

"My solution not only has legs, they are the legs of Lucy Ramirez."

Hey, if it helps get Kerry elected and Bush ousted, go for it.
I still hold that there has not been convincing proof that the
memos are fake.

"Who then was Lucy Ramirez? No one can find her or the unknown man."

I have no idea. Because I don't know, that means she's Stone's wife?
I'd say any story from Burkett about the provenance of the docs is
not worth a plugged nickel.

"You simply ignore all the coincidences I have brought up without refuting any of them."

But it's all based on the false premise that the docs are fake.
I wish you would delete a few of those joke pics or whatever it is
in your original post that makes this thread take a couple minutes
to load.

[Dems Will Win]

28. BTW, you can put DU on no images for a little bit to speed up the load.

[papau]

30. Well said :-)

:toast:

:-)

[AnIndependentTexan]

34. I think it's not about right or wrong

The media has already ignored that interview. They also ignored that 11 states were censored when it was airing. It is a interesting case and sort of a fun game. Basically what we all are doing is trying to find the needle in the hay stake.

[papau]

29. Wrong -"I" hired the Generals as salesmen to military types Because the

command power continued - The "I" is in quotes since, while I was part of Senior Management, I did not directly hire salesfolks - "I" simply means "my" operation, where "my" means I was one of a few that ran the place.

Indeed for Decades the command influence would remain.

Where the hell did you get the idea that "The command power was implied but there could have been none."

Sales results were so good for the "retired officer" approach other operations picked up on it.

[mzmolly]

37. Has THIS been blasted to the media!?

:shrug:

I sent it to a few folks yesterday, but it must be done. The times (in an article today) says that Rather could loose his job.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

14. PLEASE edit some of the silly

bells and whistles crap out of your original post, old chum.

[Dems Will Win]

19. For you, anything, old bean! But alas!

You can't edit this message because the editing period has expired.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

22. Oh, well.

As for the memos authenticity, my mind is open. You havent posted
anything I havent seen before. The Staudt and Knox arguments just
arent very impressive. I know retired officers still carry clout,
and Knox seems more convincing saying she didn't type them than
she does saying they're fake. So, for now, I guess in your eyes
I'll have to remain a part of porcine Rove's sinister plot, although
IF you're wrong, you're the one feeding at his dark trough.

[Dems Will Win]

21. Tell you what, if Keith Olbermann has a Sherlock Holmes angle

on this story when he reports next week that "it is now being thought in political circles that Roger Stone's wife, who is Cuban, might be the mysterious Lucy Ramirez" and says "It's Elementary!" you owe me a :toast:

If the docs are proved definitively authentic, typed and signed by Killian (and without originals I don't know how you do that), then I owe you a

:toast:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

23. Are those root beer floats?

It's a deal either way, old pal.

[Dems Will Win]

25. Whatever floats your boat, Mr. A!

[bain_sidhe]

33. I prefer a root beer float, to a boat, myself

Ooops, just being silly. Sorry. Carry on, dear chaps.

[mitchum]

31. OT: Does Nydia still like it "hard and deep"?

[bain_sidhe]

32. Correction. Not Lubbock. Houston.

As in, the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo. Big, BIG event in Texas, and people come from all over the state (and even out of state) to it. It's gonna be hard to trace one person, because of that.

[Dems Will Win]

36. Dash it all!! Houston, of course, you are right, dear bain,

I stand corrected!

[DeepModem Mom]

35. kick!

[Dems Will Win]

38. BUCKHEAD REFUSES TO TELL HOW HE KNEW SO FAST THE DOCS

WERE FORGERIES!
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-091704buckhead_lat,1,494535.story?coll=la-home-

Reached by telephone today, MacDougald, 46, confirmed that he is Buckhead, but declined to answer questions about his political background or how he knew so much about the CBS documents so fast.

"You can ask the questions but I'm not going to answer them," he told The Times. "I'm just going to stick to doing no interviews."

[Dems Will Win]

39. KICK FOR GOOD LUCK