Question about reactions to Bush during debate

[fugue]

I originally just listened to the debate (I get more of the conversation if I eliminate visuals on the first go). Then I watched the C-SPAN non-Podium Watch version; I didn't realize there was more than one. Of course, that one didn't show anything but the currently speaking candidate.

Then someone pointed me to the Podium Watch version, which is the split screen version, the one in which you can see the other candidate while the first is speaking. I watched it. . . . I grant that I often miss nonverbals (I have Asperger's syndrome), but I usually get them when they're exaggerated. I honestly didn't see much to get excited about in Bush's behavior when Kerry was speaking. Yeah, there was the odd strange look: when Kerry said that he thought he and Bush both loved their country equally, Bush looked at him sharply like he had been insulted; he did roll his eyes once when he disagreed with what Kerry was saying; he did blink a lot. Kerry did look more presidential, but . . . I was underwhelmed by difference between them, given the brooha everywhere and my impression from the audio portion (he sounded much worse than he looked to me). Mostly he had his lips pursed like he was the Church Lady from SNL, and well, it's not a fabulous expression, but it didn't seem a big deal to me. It didn't seem the sort of thing that would upset anyone but Kerry's most ardent supporters, but . . . everyone seems to agree it was just completely unacceptable.

Did anybody else have a reaction similar to mine? I'm not trying to be snide here or debate that Kerry is the hands-down winner; he whaled on Bush on content. He certainly was calmer when the camera wasn't on him. I will finally be voting for John Kerry and not just against Bush. But I'm also trying to figure out if my reaction to Bush and the reaction to him is entirely based on my neurology or if there were also some neurotypical folks who don't see what the hubbub is about.

[AndyP]

1. it was the blank looks

when he started to speak that amazed me. He would start his sentance with an "ummm," and have a blank look like he didn't prepare or something.

[redstateblues]

2. Are you sure you weren't watching some other debate?

Bush's exaggerated facial expression's were much worse than Al Gore's sighing from four years ago. He demonstrated by his constant petulance, anger and irritation that he is not used to having anyone disagree with him. It was the most outward reaction I have seen in a presidential debate.

[Nimrod]

3. It's called mugging

And it's considered extremely unprofessional and unsportsmanlike. I was in a debate class, and the instructor would practically throw us out the window for reactions like that. You're supposed to challenge your opponent with your arguments, not by trying to steal his thunder by making funny faces while he's speaking.

No, it's NOT a big deal. Mugging for reaction is not a crime or anything. But this is the leader of the free world here and if he can't control himself for 90 minutes straight, that says something about his leadership.

[rainy]

4. I'm with you

It was no big deal. Barely noticable. Bush just kept saying the same things over and over again. He didn't seem as bad as I've seen him in other speeches.

[cheshire]

5. I don't know what asperger's syndrome is but you may want to get a

book on what body langauge and facial expressions mean. GW's father had a twitch in his jaw during the RNC I saw signs of this on W's right cheek (away from camera) I was looking for it though. He was practiclly spastic in his facial movements. Very very nervous, mad and comical. Sorry

[fugue]

8. Asperger's syndrome

It's a difference in brain-wiring. We're autistics at the high-functioning end of the spectrum.

We tend to miss nonverbals (body language, facial expression, voice tone) and be "hyper"-logical (I think it's actually logical, hence the quotation marks). We also tend to be extremely smart (I've genius level IQ, but I'm only mediocre in intelligence as Aspies go). We tend to be, like most autistics, hypersensitive to stimuli and prefer controlled environments. (See the Asperger's Syndrome Support thread in the Meeting Room for the many individual variations in the syndrome.)

Although many Aspies don't get nonverbals at all, as I said, I usually get exaggerated ones. That's why I figured I'd see something if there was anything really to it.

I agree on the voice tone. I think his voice tone was hyperbolic, much more like a country preacher calling down hellfire than a president defending his policies.

Edited for grammar.

[Arkana]

16. I don't know...I'm a mild Asperger's case

and I caught the impatience and petulance in Bush's expressions. The cocked head and the pursed lips are enough evidence to indicate that he's nothing more than a spoiled child who expected Kerry to lie down and die when hit with the "flip-flop" charge.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

6. I'm super tuned in to nonverbal cues: body language and

facial expressions. From the FIRST moment behind the podium, bush looked jumpy, very nervous, his eyes darted about a lot, he blinked too much, he looked pale.

He hunched over the podium, he did that eyes wide open, hands spread "hey look at me don't you agree with me? I'm not a bad guy" thing that a lot of politicians do, but I've never seen it look worse than on bush. He's used it for a few years now and literally cannot pull it off. Someone needs to tell him to drop that one.

His trademark smirk was present, tons of them. And he just got worse as the debate went on.

It was actually a bit painful to watch him.

Kerry, on the other hand, looked calm, cool, confident, strong, relaxed, and he only got BETTER, while bush got worse.

I saw it from the first second.

[Digit]

7. Even the staunch RW pundits admitted on tv that * looked petulant

and angry and they were trying to tone it down! He seemed indignant that he was being questioned.
This was not done purposely to "throw" Senator Kerry...he just could not keep his childish emotions in check.
I watched the C-Span split screen during the debate.
* looked BAD, REALLY BAD!

[gordianot]

9. You're observations are valid.

I have worked with students with Asperger's and Autism spectrum. Go to moveon.com they have a compilation of his expressions when you see them I think the perceptions will be clearer.

[MissB]

12. Here is the link to the page that you mean

http://www.moveonpac.org/#

Look on the left hand side of the page and click the link that says "View the MoveOn PAC web video of Kerry on Bush's...."

The face Bush makes is towards the very end of the clip, after you see the Misleader word.

[MissB]

10. Since you say you don't always get the nonverbal clues

I can see why you might be puzzled by the reactions from people here. Moonbeam had a good description of those nonverbals in her post.

I do pick up nonverbal clues. I only have a basic understanding of Aspergers (and that is in small children, not adults). The nonverbal clues were all there. Leaning into the podium is a big no-no in debates, although it doesn't always mean the debator is bored/angry/stupid. Bush should've known better. But the rest of his body language was horrible.

Somewhere recently I've watched a side-by-side comparison of the two from the debate- it was a shortened version. Bush's face was shown while Kerry was talking - and during every clip, Bush was giving huge nonverbal miscues. I'll fish around and see if I can find it.

[Craig Roberts]

11. He was behaving like a child

An adult in such a situation is expected to listen respectfully and quietly as the other person speaks, and not make childish faces when the person says somthing they don't agree with (which, in this situation, of course almost everything his opponent said was going to be something with which he disagreed).

An adult has the discipline and composure to wait quietly and calmly for his turn to speak. Bush showed he didn't have that basic discipline. I mean, if it happens once or twice in small ways during the course of a 90-minute debate, no big deal. But when the audience can see you constantly reacting and getting beside yourself, then you come across looking childish and undisciplined. He looked like a petulant, spoiled brat.

[liberal N proud]

13. When shrub asked for an extra 30 seconds and then froze

It was classic, I roared.

[fugue]

14. OK, I guess it must just be an Aspie thing then . . .

I did see the expression after the "Misleader" screen in the MoveOn video. I'm not arguing that he didn't have a couple odd expressions during the debate, it just seemed to me that the universal opinion he was so very over the line was inflated.

Don't get me wrong; if he really came off that badly, I'm glad, it works for us. I just didn't see it myself.

[Demoiselle]

15. You're exactly right about the "Church Lady " expression, fugue!

I was trying to figure out what his face reminded me of...and there it is! The Church Lady has always been a favorite of mine because the expression that Dana Carvey wears is a perfect mask of persnickety nit-picking total disapproval...covering up real rage and envy of anybody else having a good time. Clearly Kerry was having a good time and Bush was not.