Oklahoma Debate on MTP

[Thrill]

Are you watching these Senator candidates debating on MTP? How weird is this? The Republican sounds like a Democrat. And the Democrat sounds like friggin Repuke.

[Pepperbelly]

1. Coburn ... Republican is uber-Republican. Dont be fooled. nt

[pinkpops]

2. I'm watching - whats an uber?

[Kolesar]

4. uber is German for "over"

As in Uberfuhrer. That was a political title in Hitler's third reich.

[pinkpops]

5. Thanks. I'll be Lesser of two weasels here I sp'ose

[madfloridian]

3. That was my impression exactly.

I thought I was hearing things. Heck, in our area, the Dem and the Repub are at least exactly alike.

Oh, wait! That is not good either is it?

Up is down, etc.

[Radical Activist]

6. They had a real Democrat run for the primary

but all the big money Dems and the DCCC wanted this Elephant in Donkey's clothing. I tuned in when the Repub said he thought it was immoral to pass our national debt onto our grandchildren. I wish the Democrats would say that!

[Bucky]

7. Don't be too tuff on Carson. He'll vote to organize with our side.

You don't like him. But trust me, the Republican in that race is a scary kind of bonkers--crazy as a Keyes.

[simpsonsbuff]

9. U cant have radicals at every turn

In nyc Gulliani was the mayor because he is moderate, bush could never win in NYC. In Ok. carson can win because he is moderate, kerry can not win in Ok. Take it where u can get it, and be happy he is on our side.

[Radical Activist]

10. How about just once?

Because I don't see the Democratic establishment try it or bother to support real progressives too often. We're talking about a populist state that produced Woody Guthrie and Will Rogers. I guess we'll never know if we don't try.

[Pepperbelly]

14. not today. we seem to be making inroads to and that is good. nt

[RoyGBiv]

17. Know anything about the Wobblies?

Just curious.

When Oklahoma was established, it was as close to a socialist state as this nation has ever seen. Racists and oil barons quickly took over, however, and it's been in a downward spiral ever since.

[Radical Activist]

24. Sure do

There's still a strong radical left wing populist element in OK underneath the surface. Kucinich had a lot of supporters there early in the primary and raised a surprising amount of money in OK. Sadly, much of the east coast party leaders don't seem to grasp the power of populist messages in middle America.

[Julien Sorel]

19. Real progressives have been getting thumped since Reagan.

In the South, since Nixon. The Democratic establishment does what it takes to win, and if that means supporting the Brad Carsons of the world, then it needs to be done.

Are there any examples of conservatives running in liberal areas and winning? No, you say? Are there any examples of liberals running in conservative areas and winning? Has it even happened once?

Just once, I'd like to see someone try jumping out of an airplane without a parachute and seeing if they survive. We'll never know if someone doesn't try.

[Radical Activist]

23. Well,

Illinois was a swing state until people like Paul Simon and Dick Durbin took a lot of difficult stands from rural downstate districts that helped Illinois become strongly Democratic.

Bill Clinton isn't too conservative and he made it in Arkansas. We have Daschle in SD. Edwards used populist themes, but you never heard him sound like a right-wing Republican. He had a pretty liberal voting record too. A little courage goes a long way in changing a state. Of course, that won't happen if you're only thinking in the short term each election.

[RoyGBiv]

16. Passing on Debt

That's just rhetoric. Extend it out to what he really means. He makes it a moral issue to reduce the debt, but then doesn't tell you how he wants to do that.

Coburn and his allies want to reduce the national debt by doing away with every social program, every level of government, just everything. That's pretty much what Coburn wants. No universal health care -- and he's a doctor. No social security. No government regulations of any type on anything.

[DaveinMD]

8. Carson

is not Zell Miller. He will vote with the leadership on important votes. You need to run to the middle in Oklahoma. Kerry trails there by twenty points. This is an important seat for us to win.

[juslikagrzly]

11. Agreed DaveinMD

Gotta take what we can get here in Okla. While Carson would be a repug in a liberal state, he's what we've got in the bible belt. and Coburn is scary scary scary!

[DaveinMD]

12. and I bet

if he lived in Maryland,he would change his views to be more of a liberal. He's running to win. So he tailors his views as such. Just like Republicans here run as liberal Republicans.

[EST]

13. I was wondering.

I saw that show at eight and it really got my doubletake attention. The dem really sounded more radical right than the thug. Both of them sound pretty slimy. I was going to go to the Ok. board and ask some questions. Too wierd!

[RoyGBiv]

15. Oklahoma Politics

Check out the latest Rasmussen poll for the Presidential race in Oklahoma. I personally think it must be off to some degree, but it isn't by a large degree. It has Shrub leading 64% to 30%. Take that into account when you start to critique the political environment of this state.

To my knowledge, none of the Okies in DU, myself included, are particularly pleased with Carson. I know I didn't vote for him in the primary, preferring instead the only real progressive to be running. My candidate didn't get enough of the vote for anyone to take notice. So, Carson won, and that's that. He's what we have, and for leadership purposes in the Senate, he'll do. He is NOT a Zell Miller. He's simply tailored his message to appeal to as broad a cross-section of Oklahomans as he can. If he is to be elected, he has to get support from OKC and Tulsa, and that means running the kind of campaign he is running.

Coburn on the other hand is the Okie version of Josef Mengele in some respects. He's sterilized young women, against the laws of the state, without their consent. He's tried to claim it was necessary for the health of his clients. Funny how these clients were all poor, young women whom Coburn is on record as saying shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Coburn has also stated that abortion should be outlawed in all cases and that doctors who ignore the law and perform abortions anyway should be sentenced to death.

Still sound like a Dem?

[faithnotgreed]

18. now that is some important perspective - thanks eom

[Hippo_Tron]

21. That's some VERY important prespective

Coburn now scares me more than Tom DeLay (if that's possible). I'd much rather a DINO than a nutjob.

[RoyGBiv]

22. Bottom Line

That's really what it boils down to: Nutjob vs DINO.

I don't know if I can live with myself if my two Senators are Inhofe and Coburn. Freak and Freakier.

This is a race in which I'm voting more against one candidate than for the other. I'm also voting for Democratic control of the Senate, which is the main thing. The leader of the Senate would most likely then be a person more progressive than my own Senator, and that's important for many reasons.

[SharonAnn]

20. I noticed the same thing. Puzzling to me, but "what the hey?"

maybe things are different in Oklahoma.