Road Rage Incident in SA

[CRF450]

Source: San Antonio News

SAN ANTONIO -- One man was shot and killed Tuesday morning, but the man who pulled the trigger will likely not face charges, police said.

Two vehicles were on Huebner Road, but when they both reached the Fredericksburg Road intersection, one man got out of his vehicle and began attacking the other with a baseball bat, police said.

When the man with the bat tried to attack the driver, investigators said, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver twice.


Read more: http://www.ksat.com/news/14959073/detail.html

[jody]

1. "The shooter . . . had a license to carry a concealed weapon . . . he acted in self-defense" n/t

[uppityperson]

3. "one man got out of his vehicle and began attacking the other with a baseball bat"

"Two vehicles were on Huebner Road, but when they both reached the Fredericksburg Road intersection, one man got out of his vehicle and began attacking the other with a baseball bat, police said.

When the man with the bat tried to attack the driver, investigators said, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver twice."

[jody]

9. We both read the article. What's your point? n/t

[uppityperson]

10. just adding a bit for those who might not have. nt

[jody]

12. I understand. Happy New Year! n/t

[Toots]

45. But who initiated the "rage" in the first place?

I suspect if this were to have happened any place but Texas a real trial would occur. In Texas the taking of a human life doesn't mean much.. A vehicle is a deadly weapon and it could be that the one with the base ball bat was acting in self defense as well. He very well could have believed the man in the other car was trying to kill him with the car.

[slackmaster]

60. It doesn't matter what triggered the rage

What matters is when a violent crime was committed.

He very well could have believed the man in the other car was trying to kill him with the car.

Whatever was going on inside of his head, the guy with the gun gave him every reasonable chance to stop, and he didn't.

[fascisthunter]

2. Did the Guy with the Gun Step Out of His Car? (nt)

[Elidor]

4. Never bring a bat to a gun fight

It always ends badly.

[saigon68]

56. LOL

Well Put

Also don't bring a knife to a gun-fight

[LanternWaste]

66. Or even better...

Or even better, don't bring anything to a fight-- including one's own person...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

5. Here's a slightly better account of what took place

Correa and several witnesses quoted in the report said that Garza had maneuvered his Mitsubishi Lancer behind Correa's Chevrolet Camaro around 1 a.m. Tuesday and began driving aggressively, trying to hit the Camaro.

When the cars came to a stop at a traffic light, Garza got out and hit the Camaro several times with the bat, according to the police report.

Correa told Garza to stop, but Garza began toward him so Correa fired at him, according to the report.

Witnesses corroborated Correa's account with police.

"I'm still really shaken up. I don't really want to talk about it at all," Correa told a reporter with the San Antonio Express-News when contacted at his home.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5418326.html

[RamboLiberal]

7. Sounds like the guy with the gun showed restraint

till the idiot was coming after him with the bat. I think it's a justified self-defense shooting.

[bluerum]

41. Yeah. Shooting someone to death demonstrates restraint.

[slackmaster]

54. He shot the bat-wielding crazy in order to stop the attack

Not to kill him.

[Marrah_G]

81. Much better to die then to shoot an armed madman.

:eyes:

[Downtown Hound]

86. Does someone have to get their skull cracked oped and possible

permanent brain damage or even death before it becomes self defense? A bat can definitely be considered a lethal weapon. You can easily kill someone with it if you hit them hard enough and in the right place. This guy was doing what he felt he needed to do to protect himself. I fault nobody who does that.

[slackmaster]

13. "I'm still really shaken up. I don't really want to talk about it at all," = good response

That's exactly the kind of thing a good training class will teach you to say to the press and anyone else other than an attorney, or the police.

[CRF450]

29. Thats a load of bullshit

Most any person would be very shaken up after taking someone's life, even in self defense.

[slackmaster]

31. It doesn't sound like you have taken a self-defense course

Most any person would be very shaken up after taking someone's life, even if it was self defense.

True enough, but in the initial rush after a fight, people often act cocky and say things they later regret. A good class teaches you to keep your mouth shut and not act proud or gleeful.

[Marrah_G]

65. Someone attacked who fired out of fear is not going to be acting "cocky"

[Marrah_G]

64. Bullshit- that really is bullshit

If you shoot someone in self defense you are going to be shaken up.

[LanternWaste]

67. I imagine it's also the kind of thing I'd say...

I imagine it's also the kind of thing I'd say were I in his place-- regardless of who tells me to say what to whom...

[Gman]

6. That's what happens when you attack someone you don't know in Texas

chances are you'll get shot. The shooter had a concealed carry permit, but then he could have been shot by damn near anyone these days.

[8 track mind]

8. I live in Texas

This is the norm around here. Numerous fights break out over petty shit all of the time and it usually ends badly. Texas didn't used to be like this. Come to think of it we were not a red state at one time either. aahhhh the good ol' days.....


:banghead:

[redqueen]

52. Yup, seems so long ago...

Welcome to DU.

[LanternWaste]

69. Because it was...

"Yup, seems so long ago..."

Because it was. When did we go red-- about '86 or so? More than twenty years ago. Sheesh... I'm NOT getting old-- I swear! Everyone else is... just getting younger. Yeah! That's the ticket!

Most of the kids I tutor have never lived in a Blue Texas.

As an aside, it was the Democrat's swan song election that turned me from an Alex P. Keaton type to the huggable liberal I am today. :)

When Clayton Williams made his infamous "rape is like the rain..." comment when he ran against Ann Richards, that was the final tipping point for me.

[redqueen]

71. No it isn't!

I'm not old... I'm middle-aged... 20 years isn't that long, is it? C'mon... go with me on this one.

:P


And yes, I remember Williams and his comments very well. Ugh.

[Pavulon]

11. Bat = Deadly Weapon

swing it at someone and being double tapped is a reasonable.

You would thing people would have learned this somewhere in life..

[superconnected]

18. So now it's fine to shoot anyone with a bat?

[TroglodyteScholar]

24. I believe the poster made clear...

...that trying to hit an individual with the bat--yes, a baseball bat can brain you--was also requisite for the use of deadly self-defense:

swing it at someone and being double tapped is a reasonable.

[CRF450]

30. And do you know how much damage a swinging bat can do?

Obviously you dont.

[TrogL]

35. unless they're playing baseball they're up to something

[sarcasmo]

37. IF you come charging after me with a Bat like a raging lunatic after you had already chased me with

you Car then YES I would have shot too. This is why CCW permits are allowed and more people should carry them. Many of my fellow Taxi drivers have CCW permits and working nights in any big city you need one. The shotting is justified, nothing will happen to this Man.

[0007]

50. Goddamn right, when they want to lay your head open. Who wouldn't

shoot the dumb son-of-a-bitch?

[boricua79]

57. if he's swinging at you

if a man has an intention to kill you with a bat, he can successfully kill you or incapacitate you (leading to your death with his next swing) with ONE hit.

You can't gamble with those odds. You kill him with whatever you have available and then argue self-defense.

[Marrah_G]

80. I'm trying hard to find something non-snarky to say.

I just can't come up with anything.......... :shrug:

[bluerum]

43. You would also think people could learn a bit of grammar and to spell check.

Somehow it just does not happen.

[redqueen]

53. What the...

not using spell check or not using grammar is somehow analogous in your mind to attacking someone with a fucking baseball bat?

*sigh*

[slackmaster]

14. From the information provided, it was a good shoot in Texas or any other state

A concealed weapons permit holder in California would have been justified once the guy got out of his car and began the bat attack.

[bluerum]

42. A "good shoot". This language is disgusting.

[slackmaster]

48. Would you feel better if I'd called it a "legitimate defensive use of deadly force"?

It wouldn't change the facts or anything else about the story, but I'm OK with a nod to political correctness.

[Marrah_G]

82. Attacking other motorists for no reason is disgusting

I want to know what Utopian world you live in. Where there are no bad men and everything can be solved by just talking rationally to the person TRYING TO FUCKING KILL YOU.

[nannah]

15. wasn't driving away an option?

it occurs to me as a woman, that even an armed woman would have been inclined to drive away and seek help. not to start a gender issue, but my instinct would have been to hit the gas pedal. just askin....

[slackmaster]

16. From the description in the link in reply #5, it sounds like that was not an option

The cars were stopped at a traffic light.

The shooter's car may have been boxed in by other cars, or by traffic that had the green light. The bat-wielder may have also been in the way.

[superconnected]

17. I'd have whipped out my cell and called the police, and locked the doors

if I couldn't have driven away. Shooting wouldn't have come until the guy had broken into the car.

But then they are in TX and a lot of people feel its justified to simply kill all attackers.

[RamboLiberal]

19. Cops probably wouldn't get there in time it would take

for that bat to smash side window and be aiming at your head next. Sounds to me like the bat wielder was aiming for the window when he got shot.

[CRF450]

25. ^^^What he said!

A bat being swung wouldn't have a problem smashing through a window.

[slackmaster]

27. Yes, I had a crazy meth-head smash my driver's window and windshield with a wrench once

It happens so fast there isn't a lot of time to get creative. If I had a gun at the time I would definitely have used it.

I escaped from the situation by deliberately smashing the rear bumper of my pickup into the side of the guy's brand new 700-series BMW twice. He was so stunned he dropped his wrench and I was able to drive off.

I'm glad nobody was injured, but I was just seconds from possible death.

(Knee-jerk reactionaries please note I said I would have used the gun. That does not necessarily mean I would have fired it. A gun might have enabled me to stop the attack without doing any damage.)

[benEzra]

55. A Camaro's side window won't even slow down a club.

The attacker doesn't have to "break into the car" to kill you; he just has to swing at your head, through the side window. The windshield will stop a couple of bat blows, but a side window won't even slow the bat down; you'll just get a little extra glass embedded in your skull when he brains you...

[CRF450]

95. And even those windows can be pulled outward away from the weatherstriping

Trust me, I own a Trans Am (basically the same car), the doors on an f-body doesn't have a frame that goes up to the top like 99% of other vehicles, so its really easy to break into these cars.

[boricua79]

58. I wouldn't wait that much...

he could hurt you with a well placed strike through the window or from broken glass.

The guy forfeited his life when he decided he was willing to kill the other person.

[Hangingon]

96. I would have called 911 too

Told them I was being attacked by an armed person, that I was armed. Then, while on the line, I would have warned the bat wielder. If he didn't stop, I would have used force to protect my self. I wouldn't have waited for him to start swinging at the driver's window. Buckled into today's car you have little room to get out of the way. It was a "good shoot" in Texas or any other state.

[sarcasmo]

38. Even if the lunatic was trying to kill you with their car?

[bluerum]

20. Shoot first. Ask questions later.

You gotta wonder about where all this is going,,,

[slackmaster]

26. If you had read the article linked to in the OP and in reply #5

You would know that is NOT what happened.

[bluerum]

40. That IS what happened.

The first person to suffer bodily injury was the one who was shot.

There was no full account (in either article) that really explains what led to this incident. Mistaken identity? Did the guy in the Camero cut off the guy with the bat? Personal vendetta?

I also must ask - if the guy in the camero had not had his gun would he have been so "brave"? Would he have left the scene? Would he have sought assistance? Would both these people be alive today?

[slackmaster]

47. There is no obligation to let someone injure you before you use deadly force, bluerum

There was no full account (in either article) that really explains what led to this incident. Mistaken identity? Did the guy in the Camero cut off the guy with the bat? Personal vendetta?

Your speculations about what might have led up to the incident are irrelevant. From what is known about the incident, there was no crime until the guy got out of his car and began attacking with the baseball bat.

BTW, did you read the Houston Chronicle account in reply #5?

...Correa and several witnesses quoted in the report said that Garza had maneuvered his Mitsubishi Lancer behind Correa's Chevrolet Camaro around 1 a.m. Tuesday and began driving aggressively, trying to hit the Camaro.

When the cars came to a stop at a traffic light, Garza got out and hit the Camaro several times with the bat, according to the police report.

Correa told Garza to stop, but Garza began toward him so Correa fired at him, according to the report.

Witnesses corroborated Correa's account with police....

[defendandprotect]

73. Except for women who kill husbands abusing them . . . !

[slackmaster]

74. Abuse causes injury

So your exception does not hold.

[defendandprotect]

79. Read the statistics . . . abuse causes death ---

[slackmaster]

87. So do crazy guys who jump out of cars and start swinging baseball bats

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

94. In this case, the guy with the gun caused the death ---

Meanwhile, most deaths of women who have been abused are by significant others . ..
often wielding guns.

[0007]

51. Do YOU have a reading problem or what? Or are YOU just a wise guy?

[Wcross]

91. Delete-duplicate post

[Wcross]

92. So what if you get whacked upside the head with a ball bat?

It would only hurt until you slipped into unconsciousness. Better than defending yourself with a gun.
:sarcasm:

[Hangingon]

98. If you read the articles, he didn't shoot first.

He warned the attacker. The attacker didn't stop.

[fudge stripe cookays]

99. Are you Texan?

You profile says Massachusetts, and you seem to be here just stirring up trouble. Why is that?

[judaspriestess]

21. ahhh good ole San Antonio my hometown

where senseless violence is the norm.........


I should know my uncle was viciously murdered, shot with a shotgun at close range in San Antonio and we will never know why. He was a decent guy too, just think he may have gotten too drunk and mouthed off to the wrong son of a bitch so the way things are settled in SA is gang up on somebody and kill them.

[LanternWaste]

70. Shoot (no pun intended)...

Shoot (no pun intended), S.A. is one of the few places left on the pimple in the butt hole of America that we call Texas that I still enjoy visiting...

[judaspriestess]

93. oh most definitely, San Antonio is a great city to visit

its just infested with stupid machimso bullshit that affects many people there. I just heard my nephew's house was shot up in a drive by shooting a couple of weeks ago. His mother was shot four times. She is going to be ok thankfully. She was shot in the hip and legs but she could have very easily been killed. All because my nephew (who I never speak to) is involved in gang banging.

San Antonio is still home and will always be....

[cadaverdog]

22. A few thoughts come to mind

I have to wonder about someone who feels it necessary to carry a concealed weapon, yet gets into a road rage incident. Maybe looking for trouble?
If he is a person of conscience, he will have to live with the thought that he killed another human being all his life. I know, that probably doesn't carry a lot of weight with many people out there, but it would bother some of us.
His name is going to get out, and then he will be looking over his shoulder for this thug's "homies." Nice way to live.
And when they find out where he lives, then he'll be worrying about his family. Then they'll all be looking over their shoulder.
Hey, but he "won."

[CRF450]

28. I'd carry one too incase some nut comes after me like what happened here

And did you even read the more detailed article from post #5? I highly doubt he was looking for trouble.

[RamboLiberal]

34. Road rage incidents aren't always two way

It's possible the guy who got attacked did nothing wrong, or maybe did some innocent/dumb mistake on the road that threw the bat attacker in to a rage.

That being said I have a CCW and I do carry so I try to avoid road rage situations if I can. Too easy for a situation to escalate.

[nannah]

23. so in San Antonio Texas a driver can be attacked

in a crowed intersection with no recourse but to shoot... wow. when i was there many years ago, it didn't seem so dangerous; but perhaps that was just my percepttion. glad i live in rural WA.

[slackmaster]

32. I look at it a little differently

In San Antonio, you have the option of legally carrying an effective weapon of self-defense in case you are ever stuck at a crowded intersection and attacked by a crazed loony with a baseball bat.

The baseball bat attack can happen anywhere. In California I don't have the option of carrying a handgun, so my chances of getting killed by the loony may be greater. (At least my options for responding to such an attack are more limited.)

[kurth]

33. The guy with the bat asked for it

Moron.

[Chovexani]

36. Don't mess with Texas

[whathappened]

39. crazy country

we are living in , couple a days ago coming home from fl. on 65 north and just as i was coming to the indiana brige trailor came off 5th wheel , no road side to get off so had to stop in traffic , bad place to be in rush hour , had people throwing cups and yellint at us as they went by , cause i was blocking lane , called 911 and told them i needed help fast , it looked like i would get hit at anytime , they were there with a blinking lite van and covered my back side and helped me get this mess off the road into a parking lot , so road rage is alive and well all over the country , thanks to the police in old kentuck i'm safe at home and thinking about what this could have lead to fast

[Mike Daniels]

44. Democratic Undergroud....where defending yourself against assault is a crime

and 20/20 hindsight by keyboard pontificators always rules over actually having been in the person's shoes.

[DiverDave]

46. You don't get it.

the taking of a life is the fucked up part of all this.
Could there been a different outcome?, who knows,
but rationalizing shooting someone is just wrong.
I've only seen responses to that effect.
Please show me where anyone said what you implied.

[slackmaster]

49. No rationalization is required for defending yourself against a violent attack

the taking of a life is the fucked up part of all this.

Yes, and the guy who did the shooting may have prevented the taking of HIS life.

[boricua79]

59. nothing fucked up about it

the swinger forfeited his life when he rushed the other driver. I won't shed any tear for the swinger's life. He obviously didn't care for it much since he decided it was ok to rush another person in a threatening manner.

[Marrah_G]

83. No need to rationalize it. It was already rational

This man did not shoot someone trying to steal his car or something. This man killed someone who was actively trying to kill him.

It is COMPLETELY rational to do what you have to to stay alive.

[CRF450]

90. For some members here, so true.

Atleast the majority is defending the guy that was being attacked.

[SoCalDem]

61. My My..how far we have come

Frontier justice, circa 1850, is alive & well in the 21st Century :eyes:

[superconnected]

63. Bingo!

There will always be the type that want to KILL and find any justification for it. Most poeple would have tried to run away. But no, this guy chose to KILL and a whole lot of DU claps.

[Mike Daniels]

68. Someone acting under duress and probably having a second or two to react

does what he feels necessary to protect himself and you want to second guess him.

Classy.

[slackmaster]

77. I recommend that you read the accounts in the OP and reply #5 before jumping to that conclusion

The shooter used deadly force only as a last resort after making a clear effort to end the confrontation with lesser measures, and has stated that he is upset about it.

But no, this guy chose to KILL and a whole lot of DU claps.

Wrong on both counts.

[Hangingon]

97. I think he chose to defend himself.

[slackmaster]

75. I hope you realize that the incident would be a justifiable shooting in California

And always would have been since the founding of the state.

[SoCalDem]

76. Makes me extra-glad I drive very carefully, and curteously

:hi:

[slackmaster]

78. So do I, but sometimes you run into a crazy person and can't avoid a confrontation

Keep driving safely!

[Marrah_G]

85. How would driving nicely stop an insane person from attacking you?

[Downtown Hound]

89. That will serve you well in 99.9% of all situations out there

And odds are you'll never have a problem. But there's always that chance where the other person just doesn't care how nice and courteous you are.

[Marrah_G]

84. How is stopping someone from killing you "frontier justice"

Or would it be more civilized if he had just accepted his fate and died?

[Downtown Hound]

88. No one is clapping here

There's a big difference in recognizing the situation for what it was and being glad that it happened.

This situation is tragic for everybody involved, including the guy that did the shooting. But if there's a lesson here it's not to fly off the handle when the road rage hits. Whatever it is, no matter how pissed off you are, it's not worth your life. Too many people out there that think that whenever they get angry they have a right to grab a bat and start beating up people or threatening or basically just start tearing the place up. I've seen it too many times.

Sometimes when you do that, you may pick the wrong person, and it can cost you your life. And the more that message gets out there, the less we might see of incidents like this. It sucks that this man is dead, but he has no one to blame but himself. You can't threaten someone with a potentially lethal weapon such as a bat and not expect them to defend themselves with whatever force they deem fit. One good hit from a bat on the head could leave someone a vegetable for the rest of their lives. If I'm ever in that situation, you can bet if I have the opportunity to prevent that from happening by taking another man's life, I would do it without hesitation. And yes, I'd feel pretty shitty about it afterwards, but in the long run, I'd harbor no regrets about what I did. Just sadness that it had to happen.

[BluePatriot]

62. Thoughts

My husband has his CHL and carries a gun in his car. Usually I give him crap about it like "man, it's just going to get stolen if you leave it in there" or "take the damn gun out sometimes so I can drive the new car around if I want to" or "won't it just go off after hitting a speed bump?" etc, etc.

But if someone came up to smash his drivers' side window / him with a bat at a red light while he's sitting there, strapped in, he has every right to use it for self-defense and I hope he would. I'm glad a lot of people on this thread agree, too, even though it's a unfortunate situation for all involved.

[mikelgb]

72. I had a gang of young asians come toward my car with a club... over a parking spot

I drove away in reverse.

Another time I was the passenger and I made a sarcastic gesture after some impatient guy in a car behind us aggressively sped around the us because we were taking to long to make a left turn and he wanted to go right... He saw me apparently and instead of going on his way he decided to get in front of us and throws his car in reverse trying to ram us....

No gun or anything else besides my car for protection.

Violence in people over such petty shit really depresses me.