Police say coffee shop owners believe lack of faith killed daughter

[goddess40]

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080325/WDH0101/80325030

Diabetic condition highly treatable, expert says

Wausau Daily Herald

TOWN OF WESTON — An 11-year-old town of Weston girl died Sunday from a treatable form of diabetes after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical treatment, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said this afternoon.

Vergin said the girl’s parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, believe she died because they apparently didn’t have enough faith. Members of the Neumann family operate Monkey Mo coffee shop in Weston, and a sign on the business' window today said it had been closed "due to a family emergency."



This is extremely sad but I guess after birth kids don't have a right to life. I suspect that no charges will be pressed as the parents 'have suffered enough', which is bullshit. I don't give a rats behind what people want to believe but when it kills a child they have crossed the line.

[undeterred]

1. That's neglect.

A college friend of mine got into a religious group where the same thing happened. An 11 year old boy was sick and the 'elders' were called in to pray. They diagonosed that the boy had been 'sinning' by masturbating and said that he needed to repent. Well, the boy had diabetes and he died just like the girl in this situation. He was pretty sick for a long time.

The police investigated and found that the 'elders' were intimidating lots of the parents into not taking their children to the doctor. So they were the ones charged with something like involuntary manslaughter and they went to prison. The parents lost custody of their remaining children to other relatives. And my friend and her husband were heartbroken and finally came to their senses and left the group. The whole thing fell apart because most of the people in the group had children of their own and they realized how stupid it was.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

2. Maybe the kid should have prayed for parents who weren't idiots...

I hope the parents are prosecuted.

[goddess40]

3. Ethicists say case unclear

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/WDH0101/803260640/1581/WDHnews

Court decisions, however, have been clear in previous cases where parents have known their child was ill and have relied solely on prayer, Miles said. The courts have forbidden withholding treatment because of religious beliefs if the treatment is potentially life-saving and the risks associated with the treatment are low.

Wisconsin law holds parents responsible for the health of children, and failure to provide medical help is a form of child neglect, said R. Alta Charo, a professor of law and bioethics at UW-Madison. Failure to act or intentional actions that lead to child neglect, resulting in death, are subject to a Class D felony, which carries a 25-year prison sentence.

They need the full 25 year prison term so their other kids have a chance.

[mojowork_n]

4. The contribution of "ethicists" is well & good, but I don't understand how...

...the administration of the hospital, or the physicians involved weren't somehow held liable.

This is one instance where that phrase from the physician's oath, "first, cause no harm," doesn't provide cover for ignoring the problem, hoping it will go away.

[sybylla]

5. One might presume if you're the type to pray over illnesses

that a doctor would never have seen the child.

As mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect, I would like to think doctors and nurses would never ignore a child who may not be getting proper treatment. People who practice this kind of faith know this and would likely never take a child to a doctor knowing it would soon be out of their hands.

[goddess40]

6. recording of the aunt's 911 call

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=VIDEO0901

The following are excerpts of what the aunt, Ariel Gomez, told the dispatcher:

* "My sister in law is, her daughter's severely, severely sick and she believes her daughter is in a coma. And, she's very religious so she's refusing to take (Kara) to the hospital, so I was hoping maybe somebody could go over there."

• "My sister in law, um, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors..."

• "(The mother) told us she believes she's in a coma."

After taking down the aunt's address in California and phone number, the dispatcher asked her if they should send an ambulance.

• She responds: "Please. I mean, she's refusing. She's gonna fight it so, she's gonna fight it."

• "We've been trying to get her to take (Kara) to the hospital for a week, a few days now so."

The following is a timeline of calls to Marathon County Sheriff’s dispatchers on Sunday related to Neumann's death:

2:02 p.m. – Received a call on a non-emergency line from Neumann’s aunt in California. The aunt did not know the spelling of the family’s last name and did not have an address. Dispatchers could not find the family in its computer system.

2:06 p.m. – Aunt calls back, gave name of Neumann on Maplewood Drive, but did not have a house number. Dispatchers could not find the family and road matched in their system.

2:33 p.m. – The aunt calls back with address.

2:35 p.m. – Everest Metro Police and Weston Fire and EMS dispatched to 9807 Maplewood Drive in the town of Weston. Everest Metro Police heads to home immediately after dispatched.

2:36 p.m. – Weston EMS en route

2:38 p.m. – A 911 call is made from the Neumann home for a medical emergency.

2:42 p.m. – Everest Metro Police on scene

2:44 p.m. – Weston EMS on scene

2:48 p.m. – Weston EMS leaves home for Saint Clare's Hospital.

3:05 p.m. – Weston EMS arrives at Saint Clare's.

3:30 p.m. – Pronounced dead at Saint Clare's.

[undeterred]

7. I still think its good to apply some kind of punishment in these cases

to remind other parents who may believe in "prayer only" that they need to seek medical help extreme situations. If their child was run over by a car would they stand around and pray or call for an ambulance?

The symptoms of juvenile diabetes are clear enough that they had plenty of time to seek care or go to an ER. Even talking it over with a neighbor- geez, if I were the neighbor I would have called social services. The parents need to lose custody and take parenting classes for a while, at the very least.

[Broca]

8. A couple of years back

some religious dovotees sought to prove the power of prayer by disrupting asteroid TU24 that passed within 344,000 miles of planet earth. They thought that if they could change the trajectory by just a little it would prove that prayer works. But the same thing happened: Nothing.

[midnight]

9. Insurance Co. take this view everyday. It still doesn't make it

acceptable. But this should be a point of departure for our country. Where we seat down and talk about stopping the loss of life because medical treatment is blocked. This is extremely sad but I guess after birth kids don't have a right to life. I suspect that no charges will be pressed as the parents 'have suffered enough', which is bullshit. I don't give a rats behind what people want to believe but when it kills a child they have crossed the line.

[goddess40]

10. I agree - Pro-fetus isn't equal to Pro-life

This girl had a right to the pursuit of happiness and the right to live to adulthood so she could choose her own religious, or non-religious path. If an adult wants to deny medical care for themselves they have every right to do that but when it comes to a child, especially when it is a straight forward treatment that this girl needed, then the adults have a legal and moral obligation to seek the treatment.

[goddess40]

11. The have health insurance

Why would a self employed family buy health insurance if they didn't believe in doctors?

[sybylla]

12. Good flipping question

I know I wouldn't fork out that much money if I didn't have to.