"Artfully clever scheme achieves Tories' goal"

[sorrywrongemail]

But it is the budget's long-term aims that are most interesting. Here, the government's decision to let Canadians shelter savings in new, flexible tax-free accounts is crucial and indicative.

In effect, the Harper Conservatives are creating a new and important vehicle for those with the wherewithal to save to avoid income tax – leaving those who live month to month to make up the difference.

It is a small but important step toward implementing one of the political right's great dreams: neutralizing the progressive income tax system so that the rich pay less while the poor and middle classes pay more.

http://www.thestar.com/News/FederalBudget/article/307325
Feb 27, 2008 04:30 AM
Thomas Walkom
NATIONAL AFFAIRS COLUMNIST

[mynameisearl]

1. I am not sure Thomas Walkom

wasn't drinking when he wrote that article . If he thinks a measly 5 K saving account that escapes the tax mans grasp is for the rich he has a very different idea of rich then most people . I see this as being for the middle class who have been passed over for any type of program or tax break for far too long .

The strangest part of his article is where he says
"If the Conservatives were wise, they might have used yesterday's document to beef up measures – such as employment insurance – that could protect us from the economic downturn that still threatens Canada."

Mr Walkom are you not aware that Employment Insurance Canada is sitting on a 20 billion dollar surplus already ?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mynameisearl]

5. When did quoting Paul Martin

Become a conservative talking point ? When did thinking that spending 1 out of every 3 tax dollars on servicing the national debt was a waste of money become a conservative talking point . True i have different views on somethings then a few posters on here but i have worked on several Liberal campaigns in my riding and will again in the next election . Not all progressives think exactly as you do . I have read posts were you ridicule people for their religious beliefs and where you have made racist remarks and i don't think those are Liberal values . I would go as far as to say that i believe my position on most issues represents far more Liberal voters then yours do , yet i have no problem with you expressing yours.

[CHIMO]

4. 5000 A Year

Over many years will lead to the aristocrats, who have the money, to avoid taxes. In future years the amounts will be increased and the kitty will be allowed to be passed on without taxes.

A plain and simple destruction of democracy, as crippled as it is.

[daleo]

7. Right now the tax savings are fairly trivial

But it is a foot in the door for later increases, and reinforces the notion that money made via capitalist endeavors (i.e. investing) is somehow superior to money made by labour (i.e. wage earning), and therefore ought not to be taxed.

When it comes to taxes, a buck should be a buck.

[Bragi]

6. Here's another important feature...

Every previous tax-reduced savings plan in Canada has been designed to encourage savings for a specific, socially-beneficial purpose -- e.g. retirement savings, education funds, first-time home buyers, etc.

Harper's new tax-reduced saving fund, however, is the first ever that doesn't encourage people to save for anything in particular. You can now start a tax-reduced savings plan to help buy that Hummer for someone special, or that Cartier watch you've always wanted.

This is perfectly consistent with Harper's neocon, free-market philosophy, but it is way out of step with how we have traditionally used tax policy to promote savings and/or investment for beneficial social goals.

And I agree with the coment that what will happen is that the necons, if they stay in power, will continually up the amount allowed to be invested in these funds, and it will end up being yet another way for the well-off to shelter investment income from taxes they'd otherwise have to pay.

- B

[mynameisearl]

8. Liberals don't believe in the free market ?

Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism<1> and laissez-faire liberalism,<2> or, in much of the world, simply called liberalism) is a doctrine stressing individual freedom and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, constitutional limitations of government, free markets, and individual freedom from restraint as exemplified in the writings of Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill,<3> Montesquieu, Voltaire,<4> Thomas Paine and others. {Wiki}

At 5 K a year it would take 18 years to save for a Hummer H3 @ todays prices and it would take 7 years to save for a Prius @ todays prices

Realistically things that you could pay for with 5 K a year

1 year of special care for a child with autism
A motorized wheel chair for a disabled child
Replacing the shingles and eves trough on the average house.
Replace the battery in a Prius
switching your furnace from oil to natural gas
Half the yearly cost of keeping your mother in a decent retirement home

[CHIMO]

9. In Britain, tax-free plan mainly boosts the wealthy

LONDON–They've been there, they've done that. And British tax experts say that as good as it might sound on paper, savings schemes like the one launched by Ottawa this week offer very little for the people they are intended to help.

Here in the United Kingdom a program similar to the Save Your Money plan unveiled in Tuesday's federal budget has been in place since the early years of prime minister Tony Blair, who stepped down last year after a decade in office.

"The problem with these schemes is that they simply throw money away on a political gimmick," said Richard Murphy, a prominent British policy analyst with Tax Research LLP. "The spirit of the program is to encourage a savings culture by offering tax incentives for those lower-income earners who are not in the habit of putting a little bit aside.

"But almost invariably, the only people who participate are the ones with lots of spare cash – the sort of people who already do save and who would have saved anyway. So it ends up being a giveaway to the wealthy middle class."

http://www.thestar.com/World/Columnist/article/307742

[Bragi]

10. Quite so

There was an article in the Globe Report on Business touting this as a fine tax that had originally been proposed by -- are you ready -- the CD Howe Institute, Canada's grandaddy right wing think tank.

"Create a savings culture" indeed. It is just another way people with money can invest without paying tax on the earnings.

I wonder if people can set one up for every member of the family so the whole family can learn about the tax-free savings culture?

If you have a family of four, and could deposit $20K a year in the fund, then after 10 years or so of putting cash in, and what with compound interest and all, you'd have a nice bit of investment income being generated, all of it tax free.

- B

[mynameisearl]

11. Much like the first Star article made little sense

when they said they should build up the Employment Insurance program that has a 50 billion dollar surplus this article males little sense in comparing the two programs . This new program is aimed squally at the middle class who maybe able to sock away a little less then a 100 dollars from each paycheck which would max you out under the rules.
The British program is for triple the amount and requires investment in the stock market for the majority of savings unlike the Canadian plan .

One quote i am troubled by was ...

"But almost invariably, the only people who participate are the ones with lots of spare cash – the sort of people who already do save and who would have saved anyway. So it ends up being a giveaway to the wealthy middle class."

What the hell does "almost invariably" mean ? could you put a number to that ? and what is the "wealthy middle class" I am middle class but i am sure not wealthy and i may be able to put away near 5 K a year but i sure could not afford to put 15 K away like the British plan let alone risk it in the stock market like the British plan requires .

I file my taxes jointly with my wife like many married couples in Canada so we would only be entitled to 5 K in a tax free account . This program will help us with our disabled child and putting our other daughter through college , i just don't see how anyone could be against that .

I do see why the Toronto Star is losing readers at one of the fastest paces of any dailies in a city that is growing so quickly

[Bragi]

12. Two Harper brownie points for this posting

Not only does mynameisearl once again weigh in in favour of Harper's new $5K investment plan for those who least need a tax break, but he/she closes with a gratuitous shot at the Toronto Star, which is -- next to the CBC -- Canadian neocons favourite media villain.

So I award two Harper brownie points to this posting.

[CHIMO]

13. Glad To Hear

That you don't have to visit the food bank.

Having an extra $100 a week might make you a pauper in certain areas and might make you upper middle class in others.

Thanks for your personal history. You might want to add it to your profile.

When looking at newspapers the best way to get the drift is to read the editorial pages. Haven't seen any postings from you knocking down some of their contributors.

So one hopes that you start posting articles that reflect your opinions or put up some that you can knock down.

Careful: if something doesn't make sense it may be that one is, how should we say it, not able.....