Unbelievable! What a horrible precedent the Governor-General has set...

[Metric System]

Harper's about to speak and the talking heads say that they've been given permission to report that the GG has granted Harper's request to prorogue. In the future whenever a PM wants to avoid facing a confidence vote s/he can just prorogue Parliament. Ugh.

[Clintonista2]

1. Are you kidding me? I just got out of an exam and read on CBC's website that he's still meeting

and that the GG has said she will meet with the opposition leaders before making a decision.

[Mother Jones]

2. Absolutely stunning

I'm speechless........I am without speech.

No doubt he lied to her too

[daleo]

3. According to the Globe, you are right

Parliament shut down

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper has obtained Governor-General Michaëlle Jean's consent to temporarily shut down Parliament, a move that allows him to avoid a confidence vote next week that was expected to defeat his government.

It's a blow for the Liberal-NDP coalition, backed by the separatist Bloc Québécois, that was seeking to replace the minority Conservative goverment.

The development buys time for Mr. Harper to assemble a January stimulus budget that he hopes will discourage the multiparty alliance from taking him down at that time.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081204.wparliamentday1204/BNStory/politics/home
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a hunch the details will show he didn't get everything he wants, though.

[Spazito]

4. Her decision has now reduced her role to a lap dog for whoever is in power and political expediency

now takes precedence in the decisions by the current GG AND makes the job of future GGs more difficult. She abdicated her responsibility, imo, by agreeing to this political ploy by the current minority government.

[Mother Jones]

6. Bingo!

And I have just sent her an email telling her that! (not that she cares)

[Darth_Kitten]

29. She did her job.

n/t

[Metric System]

30. But did she make the right decision by allowing the PM to duck a confidence vote?

[Spazito]

32. No, she did not, imo

Proroguing Parliament should be done only if there is a crisis. There was NO crisis, there was only a minority government that has lost the confidence of Parliament and was under "threat" of losing power.

Her job was to be independent and she failed miserably and, by doing what she did, set a very dangerous precedent that will affect how Parliament works in the future. Any minority government under threat of a "loss of confidence" can now suspend Parliament at will due to this precedence.

[thenam]

5. Confidence no longer matters, I guess

I thought that the most important standard for a government in our House of Commons was that they enjoyed the confidence of said House. This is the basis for our entire system. I am still stunned by this decision. Future Prime Ministers will no longer worry about confidence votes; they will simply prorogue Parliament indefinitely.

...is it time for me to bump the Monarchy thread? ;)

[Sandrine for you]

7. This is not so simple.

It's a constitutional convention that the GG accept the demand of the PM. But there is a precedent that the GG can ask the court for an advise. So Harper cannot ask for a second prorogation: Too costly in term of politic and if it do it, the GG, with a advise from the court, can ask Harper to resign and give the power to the coalition.

The real strategy of Harper, here, is to hope that the coalition could not survive to two month of delay...

And I think he may be right. But he is now a political lame duck.

[Mother Jones]

8. I disagree that he's a political lame duck

He will be going through the motions of appearing as though he is in full control, and doing all the right things in this economic period. (ie mtg with Premiers)

He will do lots of photo ops, showing him hard at work "for Canadians during troubled times"....he will reach out to the opposition, if only for the press, to show he's willing to work together.

His budget will have some 'give', cons will argue, in the spirit of cooperation.

Sure, he can't pass legislation but that's not what's important to him right now. He will win the PR war. That will put him on more stable footing when they reconvene.

[daleo]

9. He has two months to bribe opposition members to support him

To carpet bomb the population with paid advertising.
To use the levers of government (administrative) to game the system any way he can.
To appeal to the basest anti-Quebec instincts of English Canadians and fracture national unity.

And that's just the start.

[thenam]

11. That's exactly what he wants

The Tories have money, and now they have six weeks to spend it, and play their game with the media. I think what he'd really like is to go back in January and dare the opposition to bring down his government. At that point, the odds are, he'll get the election that he actually wants.

[daleo]

13. The coaltion response has to be to force strategic voting

They can make sure this happens by only running one Liberal/NDP candidate in ridings where the Conservative had under 50% of the vote. I think it will come to this. It is a chess game, with each player making the only move that is sensible at each stage. Come an election, that is the only rational strategy for both the Liberals and NDP.

Should Harper win a majority, he would do everything in his power to legally annhilate all opposition parties. That would include de-funding them, jerrymandering riding boundaries, turning the CBC into a Conservative mouthpiece - nothing would be off the table.

[thenam]

16. Strategic voting makes me sigh

I never want to see strategic voting become the norm in Canada, or else we risk falling victim to the same two party quagmire that has crippled US politics. As an unapologetic Left voter, I have had the luxury of not having to hold my nose when I vote. I have choices, namely the NDP or even the Greens. I was willing to support the Coalition, but that is because it didn't require sacrificing all principle; the NDP was going to play a role, after all.

We'll see where it goes from here. My guess is that Harper wants an election again, so the question of how to vote will get played up more in the weeks to come.

[daleo]

18. I would prefer Proportional Representation in the longer run

But once the NDP/Liberals have gone as far as a coalition government accord, a one time election under those same principles would make sense. A majority NDP/Liberal government could then bring in a PR system - from my reading that wouldn't take a constitutional amendment, just an act of parliament. It could also be overturned by an act of parliament, should any party get 50+% of the vote or some combination of parties see fit.

PR would address many issues:
- smaller parties would get representation.
- regional political preferences would not be exaggerated (e.g. the west is all Conservative, or Toronto is all Liberal).
- cooperation would become the norm, rather than political division and game playing.

[HEyHEY]

21. Yeah, he pretty well cut and run

[Metric System]

10. I wonder if she set any limits on him? There was talk that she could. She probably didn't. I can't

wrap my head around the fact that she has seemingly given Harper carte blanche to continue his divisive rhetoric and undoubtedly ramp up the negative attacks. This is a dark day. That may sound dramatic, but I just can't wrap my head around the GG allowing the PM to suspend Parliament simply so he doesn't have to face a confidence vote.

[thenam]

12. That's the problem

There are many reasons for which a PM could ask for proroguing, but everything that I have understood said that he couldn't simply use it as a tool to avoid confidence votes. But he got away with it.

[daleo]

14. There are probably some nuances

Such as limits on what the government can do during the prorogation. But he will ignore them anyway.

[HEyHEY]

22. It's not that big of a surprise, man. And it's not that dark of a day

Why? Because now Canadians will see how this piece of shit acts in a time of massive crisis. If he comes back and nothing has changed then he gets overthrown and Canadians will see how he just tok a two month vacation. If he comes back with an economic stimulus package then history shows he got spanked and he will be broken and it will be easy for the opposition to bitch slap him whenever they want.

Remember, no matter what his PR people do... they can't change the simple fact that the cons don't have a majority.

[guodwons]

15. re: Unbelievable! What a horrible precedent the Governor-General has set...

I am absolutely disgusted. The GG has proven herself to be partisan, has disregarded the constitution and the will of the majority of Canadians. Harper continues to lie and she has now supported those lies (as do the Sun, the Post and the Ottawa Citizen). I have also sent an email expressing my disgust.

[thenam]

17. At this point...

...I am not sure that emails matter. The unelected G-G needn't care about what we think. And a Prime Minister supported by not even 40% of Canadians is also getting away with everything that he wants, it seems.

[HEyHEY]

19. It was expected. But,This hurts him and shows he's a coward. All it's done is delay his downfall

[Oregone]

24. If she denied his request, and immediately after Monday approve the coalition, wouldn't she face...

equal criticism from the other side? She was in a lose-lose position.

Honestly, Im new here, but I wonder if this is a "bad" thing. Harper is attempting to draft an acceptable budget (the opposition can get their way), and the gauntlet is dropped so he may not try something like this again. He comes off as weak and submissive to the opposition, as well as someone looking out for his own interests (not the Canadians'). He may never win a majority now. The opposition can now dictate policy without being the acting leaders and taking blame. Further, if they were to have formed a coalition government, backlash and responsibility for the economic decline may of handed the conservatives right back a majority (they are somewhat close already). Is this truly a terrible outcome if he passes the confidence vote and offers a great budget?

[buzzard]

25. I have been reading these boards with interest the last few days, normally not much is posted in

the Canada forum. I agree it would not be the worst outcome if he came back with a good budget and passed a Confidence Vote I do not want a coalition with the support of the Bloc period I would prefer a Minority Government or another election if need be. I was not happy with any of the choices we had last election and if Ignatieff becomes the new Leader of the Liberal Party I won't be happy either. I also disagree that Harper is Bush Lite I think there is a vast difference in the two men (not that you personally said this but I see it expressed all the time).

[HEyHEY]

27. See I agree with everything but your last statement

If Harper had a majority he would immediatly begin ransacking the public sector in every way possible and handing it off to his corporate buddies, just as Gordon Campbell did in BC.

[buzzard]

31. I don't disagree with that I was viewing it in terms of a Minority and with that I think his hands

would be somewhat tied.

[HEyHEY]

28. Oh, totally, if she had gone the other way it'd be the cons complaining

Of a Liberal slanted Ottawa, blah, blah, blah. I think she did the wrong thing because this prolongs this political crisis until february. So now, for weeks the Canadian people have no one making decisions at one of the most crucial moments in recent history. That's a bad thing.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

20. if the G-G can't be non-partisan

then what's the point of having one? Ditch the G-G, the monarchy and have an elected President a la Ireland. At least then the President would have a mandate to make any political decisions regarding the Parliamentary executive and legislature.

[thenam]

23. At least then there would be some accountability

...or least, as much accountability as any elected ruler can have, in other words, the "once every few years", kind. But yes, I agree completely, it is time to toss out this outmoded relic of the past. Let the British keep the Queen, we don't need her.

[Not a robought]

26. GG roles and responsibilities

From the Governor General's website...

http://www.gg.ca/gg/rr/index_e.asp

"One of the governor general’s most important responsibilities is to ensure that Canada always has a prime minister and a government in place."

Just sayin'. Perhaps we need to hear from her why we don't till January?

[Canadian_moderate]

34. Dion is not Prime Ministerial material

He led his party to one of its worst results ever in a federal election. A perty in disarray should not lead this country's government. I'm sorry, but I would embarrassed to call him our PM. Ignatieff as PM? Maybe. Bob Rae? hell no!

[CHIMO]

35. And I Suppose

That you think that Harper is suitable to be the first minister?

I have no problem in knowing who I am! Sounds like more dino stuff.

[Canadian_moderate]

39. DINO?

I'm not sure what that means in the Canadian political spectrum, but I'm generally socially liberal (I support charities, I'm in favour of gay marriage and the works) but I also happen to believe in personal accountability. For that reason I do not support universal childcare, eventhough I have a young toddler for whom I pay for daycare services. I'm one of those people that the Liberals lost a few elections ago and I'm extremely disheartened by our electoral system, which does not provide proportional representation, regardless of which party that would favour.

...and by the way, how ridiculous is it that some unelected representatative of the queen of England gets to make the call on what happens in our Canadian federal parliament?

[Canadian_moderate]

33. I think she was sensible

That "coalition" was a farce from the start. What kind of secret deal did the Liberals and NDP make for the votes of 49 Bloc MP's?

While Harper of had about 37.5%, the Liberals and the NDP together did not even have 50%. They do not deserve to govern based on their mandate either.

I am all for a total overhaul of our parliamentary system and setting up a proper proportional representation system that would be more more reflective of the voters' wishes than our first-past-the-post British-style system.

My guess is that the "coalition" will fall apart within the next 3 to 4 weeks. Hopefully they will all come to their senses and stop acting like school kids, and that includes the Conservatives.

I hope the Conservatives will take a nice swing to the centre. I actually voted conservative last election because I cannot stand Bob Rae and I hate the NDP. In Toronto Centre my vote didn't really count anyways in our flawed system. I have been very disappointed in how Harper has behaved. I thought he was smarter than that and he should have known it is not the time to pick fight. We need unity and consensus to implement a strong economic stimulus at this time and Canada is in a pretty good shape to do so after 11 or 12 years of surpluses and paying down the federal debt. One or two years or large deficits will not hugely harm us. We need to spend on infrastructure and I hope we avoid handing out billion$ to the big 3 automakers, who will flush that money down the toilet in no time.

[daleo]

36. Harper is already in "his senses"

What you see Harper doing is his version of his senses. He won't change or get cooperative. He will only get more confrontational. He is a gambler with a chip on his shoulder, the way Nixon was. It will eventually end the same way.

[CHIMO]

37. Sounds

Like Harper's talking points!
Guess you would like those high paying auto jobs come down to earth as well!

[Canadian_moderate]

38. I'd rather see Toyota, Honda and others fill the void...

that will be left by the big 3.

I would not buy GM, Ford, or Chrysler regardless of how much they offer in discounts and other incentives. Their products are inferior and the companies are suffering for their lack of vision and respect for consumer demand.

I'm by no means a regular conservative voter. I have voted Liberal in the past, but I feel they have lost me for the time being. I'm socially liberal, but fically more on the conservative side. I live in a very urban downtown riding yet the Liberals and NDP do nothing for me. That said, my vote is wasted in our system, so my voice doesn't really matter.

[thenam]

40. Did you get what you expected with Harper?

The guy isn't exactly a centrist. Study his background, he comes from Reform. Give him a majority and see what he does with it.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

42. That's scary

He acts like an authoritarian arse without a minority, I dread to think how he'd act with a majority.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

41. 'what kind of secret deal...'

Harper's use of the nuclear option on political party funding by government is probably enough for the opposition three to come together.

The Sovereignty issue is on the backburner and very little in way of concession needs to be given to Bloc. They're only going to supply confidence votes for 18 months, and until recently they were supplying the CPC with confidence votes. There's enough incentive for Bloc to prop up the coalition on the campaign funding issue alone.