Does anyone know the NDP stance on "protectionism"?

[Mother Jones]

It's painfully obvious that both the Conservative and the Liberals are not prepared to do what is necessary to keep jobs in this country. Just curious to know the position of the NDP on protectionism?


I work in I/T, for one of the biggest, most recognizable U.S brand companies. We are literally, sitting back and watching thousands of our jobs being shipped to India, every quarter. It isn't just manufacturing losing their jobs.


I've read the NDP website and didn't see any mention of how they would handle the warnings from world leaders against protectionism.....unfortunately, I don't believe the tax breaks for corporations to keep jobs in country would be enough to offset the benefits.

Anyone know?

[HeresyLives]

1. No idea, but protectionism is definitely a bad thing.

If it was in effect, you wouldn't have YOUR job.

[CHIMO]

16. Didn't Think

That protectionism was good nor bad.

But we come up with a problem when we take the free trade capitalism flag. When does the society have a say in how they wish to have their society run. Why should we have to pay for schooling from the general public when it is the companies that benefit by having capable employees. Or workers.

Is schooling for individual development or the development of capitalism. Or yet the method for keeping society in line.

It is very hard to hold the position that free trade is good and yet hold that the common comes first.

But I am sure you do have positions on that.

[HeresyLives]

17. What??

[CHIMO]

2. Not Aware

Of a policy, although something may be buried in print somewhere.

There is this piece from earlier this year.

Canada should pursue 'Buy Canadian' strategy: Layton
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/03/layton-trade.html

It seemed to die when the Conservatives and Liberals shoved it aside.

Looks to me that we will have to wait until we loose quite a bit more to the US corporations before we see the premiers realize what is happening. Then more than likely we will have all the parties carrying the flag.

Brace for U.S. protectionism: federal adviser
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090416.wenvironment0417/BNStory/politics/home

It would be real justice to see the corporations clamoring for a carbon tax to keep the border open.

[daleo]

3. I can see globalization being rolled back

I went along for a while, but it seems clear that it is just resulting in a race to the bottom. The recent pension dumping is all the further evidence I need.

I think there is a need for a political party to represent this reality, and it might as well be the NDP that does so. I have a hunch it is still a little too early though. People will need to suffer more before they give up on the globalization project.

[HeresyLives]

4. Globalization isn't going away.

So don't waste your time on neo-luddism. It's a dead end.

[daleo]

5. I didn't say "going away"

I said "rolled back". There is a difference. I am not against international trade based on natural competitive advantages, as Adam Smith argued for, but the simple exploitation of cheap labour does not constitute a real competitive advantage, in my opinion.

International trade agreements are not supposed to be suicide pacts. Since the latest development of globalization seems to be primarily about cut-throat wage competition and the elimination of benefits such as pensions, the blind adherence to neo-liberal economic orthodoxy is ultimately destructive. Eventually a democracy will respond accordingly. It's just a matter of time, though there will be accusations of ludditism when the democratic reaction sets in.

[HeresyLives]

6. Well we've had international trade for centuries.

And it depended on exploitation of cheap labour for sure. That can't continue.

But here are better definitions of globalization:

***************

Globalization will involve all the countries of the world in development and trade instead of keeping them out of the international system the way they are at present.

At the moment many countries can't compete against the heavy subsidies of the west...an artificial barrier that keeps them down.

Globalization involves viewing the world as one planet, not one privileged country, or one privileged section of the planet. And all of us as equally worthy of a decent life.

***********


"The concept of Globalisation refers both to the compression of the world and the intensification of consciousness of the world as a whole" - Roland Robertson
To put it simply, the role of the state and the importance of nations are greater in internationalization, while globalization in its complete form eliminates nation states.

The formation of a global village — closer contact between different parts of the world, with increasing possibilities of personal exchange, mutual understanding and friendship between "world citizens", and creation of a global civilization.

[daleo]

7. I think international trade is fine, within reasonable limits

Adam Smith talked about natural advantage e.g. wool grows best in cool Scotland and grapes grow best in warm France, so each country should pursue its natural advantage, and trade accordingly.

But current corporate globalization is primarily about moving capital to areas where labour is cheapest and most desperate. This logic is destructive, and results in a race to the bottom for all countries, when taken to the limit. In the long run it will just lead to impoverished populations around the globe, ruled by a small ruthless elite, not much different than the feudal era of Europe.

It is good that China and India have been helped along the path to modernization. We can build on that example, so that the standard of living of all countries is brought to a decent level. They have large internal markets and the necessary infrastructure to educate their people, so they can develop their economies on that basis, not just being cheap labour pools, exporting goods to the west.

The key is to use technology and organization to better the mass of the population, not just a favored few. If economic theory says that can't be done, then people will say to hell with economic theory.

International good will does not just mean trade. A global sensibility or awareness is not synonymous with ruthless global capitalism.

[HeresyLives]

8. Why should it be limited?

Smith wrote that in the 1700s, the agrarian age. It was all very neat and tidy then.

Today, anybody, anywhere, can do nanotech, stem-cell research, spacework and so on. Factories are gone or going, this is the knowledge economy.

China and India helped us on the path to modernization. You are currently using an advanced abacus, and Hindo-Arab numerals.

I believe the quotes I gave you discussed far more than simple trade or Smith's outdated capitalism.

[daleo]

9. The knowledge economy is an oversimplification

Everyone deserves a decent life, not just knowledge workers. And the wages of knowledge economy workers can be driven to starvation levels too, as is beginning to show up in the IT industry. No body of workers will be exempt, unless we challenge this ideology.

There has always been global flow of culture and knowledge, as you point out in your abacus statement. That would go on, regardless of whether the current model of globalization is in play or not.

Globalization as it stands is about exploitation. Nostrums about knowledge workers and Richard Florida type theories won't change that.

[HeresyLives]

10. In the Agricultural Age, not everyone

was in agriculture either. It's a general name for the age, not a precise definition of every person in it.

IT is now common all over the globe, and the jobs will go to everyone all over the globe. The western world doesn't get to keep them all, while others still toil in the field or the factory to keep the western world in cheap goods.

Globalization is about getting rid of the exploitation the time of international trade created.

Your politics are from an era that no longer exists.

[Mother Jones]

11. As a soon-to-be-victim

I'm not against giving India, China etc a better life, in principle....I really do believe they deserve a chance at these jobs too. But I think there should be guidelines on how to go about it. (or rather, how not to go about it)

Allowing corporations to slash 10,000 + jobs a year, only to send them overseas, all the while, offering tax breaks to these same companies is insane! Especially when coupled with a govt who's attitude is "let the market work it out".

Suicide pact indeed!!


Neither the Cons nor the Liberals care enough to do something about this. Either that, or they're too scared to take on the WTO, whom I suspect is the REAL culprit in this.

So what do you (and I mean everyone) think will happen to us?

Will we evolve into pre-Peron Argentina? ....middle-class squeezed out, leaving the rich and the poor?

I would have thought, with soaring unemployment that the NDP would make substantial gains, yet that isn't the case.

[HeresyLives]

12. Well, we're not 'giving' them anything.

They are able to take them. Companies will hire anyone qualified for the least pay they can manage. It's capitalism, and that means competition. At the moment it's competition for labour.

Neither Cons nor Liberals CAN do anything about it. Neither can the NDP for that matter, and I think everyone is aware of that.

We're into the knowledge economy, and we'll have to move up a step from the industrial one. Come up with new knowledge, provide something the Chinese and Indians can't as yet.

Which is why we need more university trained people, and funding for R&D. Green technology is a wide open field at the moment, so that's one direction right there.

[Mother Jones]

13. Well

We ARE giving them tax breaks ....for firing hundreds of thousands of our people. The U.S is worse, they gave them taxpayers money too - the ultimate insult.


I disagree that nothing can be done.

[HeresyLives]

14. Protectionism will kill us.

Canada lives on trade, so I hope that isn't your solution.

[Bragi]

15. Sometimes fair trade requires protectionism /nt

[HeresyLives]

18. Contradictory statements.