Two voting company execs who died in small plane crashes.

[Carl Brennan]

Diebold COO Wes Vance dies in private plane crash (DBD)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=25383&forum=DCForumID61&omm=0

<http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/pulseone.asp?siteid=mktw&guid=%7B81309EE5-EC60-43B2-A5F1-EAF937046E56%7D&>
Diebold COO Wes Vance dies in private plane crash (DBD) By Michael Baron
Diebold (DBD) is saying Wes Vance, its chief operating officer, died in a tragic accident. Vance was piloting a plane that crashed near Columbus, Ohio, the company said. Walden O'Dell, the company's chairman, president and CEO, will assume the day-to-day operational responsibilities until a successor is named.

Tin foil hat time- did he "know too much"?


After a while, the law of averages says that Democrats and people working in the election machine/voter data field shouldn't be the only ones killed in small plane crashes. How many coincidences does it take to find some tin foil? Certainly some skepticism is called for on these "chance" occurrences.
Carnahan . . the Wellstones . . Diebold COO . . ChoicePoint Exec VP
Dan Rocco -- April 1, 2002 -- ChoicePoint VP
He died on April 1, 2002, in a plane crash in Gainesville, Georgia. He was an executive vice president at ChoicePoint, the firm that gained infamy with their faulty "felons" list supplied to Katherine Harris during the 2000 election in Florida. As a result of this list, thousands of voters (mostly African-American voters) were wrongly identified as felons and purged from the rolls.
<<http://www.bk2k.com/bushbodycount/stolen-election/bodies.shtml>

[NVMojo]

1. I hate long forms to fill out to read articles. can you post the whole

article here, please? When did this happen?

[Carl Brennan]

4. It's against the rules. Bypass the registration

with
http://bugmenot.com/

[Carolab]

2. Don't forget the guy

who had the machine with paper trails--TruVote. This guy had an approved deal in January 2004 with Microsoft and died in a car crash in March! Interestingly, he had the same idea I proposed during a Dean MeetUp right about the same time--before the primaries--that the receipts have a number that could be checked on a website.

************

Brian Forrester

Nashville-based TruVote has partnered with technology powerhouse Microsoft Corp. to position the election voting software designer for nationwide distribution in a multi-billion dollar market.

As part of the agreement, Microsoft has given TruVote President and CEO Athan Gibbs access to its technology labs to test his product. Microsoft scrutinized coding and helped improve the TruVote software to industrial strength. Microsoft, run by Chairman Bill Gates, waived standard fees that would have totaled as much as $120,000 to gain access to the labs.

"We could see the potential in this tool," says Winston Smith, Microsoft Corp. director of supplier diversity. "It is the most robust use of Microsoft technology among electronic voting machines on the market."

TruVote also is working on alliances with global system integrators like Electronic Data Systems and Unisys.

TruVote recently received U.S. certification for its voting system. The certification will allow the Nashville company to approach state and local governments to test the product in an official election.

TruVote's product allows individual voters to audit their votes though printed receipts at the voting location. In addition, TruVote has the capability of displaying voting ballots in various languages on a visual computer screen, an advantage for precincts with numerous non-English-speaking voters.

TruVote has approached Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio and Tennessee to supply voting machines. The U.S. Congress passed a $3.9 billion Help America Vote Act in December 2002, and President Bush signed the bill in February 2003. Each state now can re-evaluate its voting systems, a potential floodgate of economic opportunity for TruVote.

"There's literally a view that there is a need to spend more than $5 billion to change out election equipment with problems that were highlighted by the problems of the 2000 election in Florida," Smith says.

Gibbs first met Smith while attending a conference in Memphis and struck up discussions about forming a partnership. Gibbs says he had tried unsuccessfully for 12 months to establish a Microsoft partnership.

"We were introduced to Winston Smith, who was hired by the president of Microsoft to come over and head up Microsoft's vendor diversity program," says Gibbs. "We were able to go through the proper channels and form this alliance. And it's been crucial."

Microsoft and TruVote have approached Los Angeles, the largest voting county in the United States, about purchasing TruVote software. A Los Angeles contract, which is 18 months from making such decisions, would be worth nearly $141 million.

"We're going to actively go after those California counties," Gibbs says.

Source: Nashville Business Journal

********************

Ballot boxes get high-tech tryout
By Chris Lewis, [e-mail]
January 26, 2004

With bitter memories of “hanging chads” and other punch-card balloting snafus of the 2000 presidential election, the nation is moving toward electronic voting systems.

But with touch-screen balloting presenting its own problems, more states and counties are demanding a verifiable paper audit trail so computerized votes can be double-checked in case of an election dispute.

Nashville-based TruVote International Inc. is on the forefront of developing and marketing the only Microsoft-based computer balloting system that meets the new standard.

“So far we’ve been to 33 states in 60 cities demonstrating it to secretaries of state, county election officials, and state legislators,” said Athan Gibbs, TruVote’s president and chief executive officer. “The response has been overwhelming because public confidence in the election process is at an all-time low.”

TruVote is among about eight companies or organizations in the United States that are certified to market the voter verifiable paper audit trail (VVPAT) technology, according to the web site, VerifiedVoting.org

“I’m very pleased that (Gibbs) is basically staking the future of his company on this paper trail, and that he’s out there fighting for it,” said Verified Voting’s founder David Dill, a professor of computer science at Stanford University.

Although Dill said he’s not seen the TruVote system demonstrated, he supports the efforts of companies to provide paper audit technology. His organization supports two pieces of proposed federal legislation (HR 2239 and S 1980) to require the use of such technology in federal elections.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section=10&screen=newsprint&news_id=30175

*****************

He wanted every vote to matter; Athan Gibbs, Sr. dies in crash

03/14/04

By HOLLY EDWARDS
Staff Writer

After more than 1 million votes went uncounted in the last presidential election, Athan Gibbs Sr. devoted his life to making sure voters in future elections would know their votes mattered.

The enterprising 57-year-old saw his invention of the TruVote vote-casting system as nothing less than the key to social justice and democracy in America.

As family members and business partners gathered at the TruVote office yesterday morning to mourn Mr. Gibbs' death, they vowed that his dream would not die with him.

Mr. Gibbs was killed about 10:30 a.m. Friday in a car crash on Interstate 65 near Eighth Avenue North as he drove from his north Nashville home to his downtown office at Tennessee State University's Business Incubation Center.

Metro police said Mr. Gibbs lost control of his Chevy Blazer after he cut in front of an 18-wheeler and the two vehicles collided. The Blazer rolled several times in the southbound lanes, went over the retaining wall and came to rest on its roof on the northbound side. Gibbs was ejected, police said.

Before his sudden death, friends and family said, Mr. Gibbs worked tirelessly on the TruVote system and, with backing from Microsoft Inc., was marketing his invention nationwide.

''He loved God, he loved people and he loved democracy, and we're going to keep his dream going,'' said Mr. Gibbs' 25-year-old son, Jonathan, who worked with his father on the project. ''It's more important than ever now to make sure his vision becomes a reality.''

Mr. Gibbs spent about three years and roughly $2 million — including thousands of dollars from his own bank account — to develop and market the electronic vote-casting system. TruVote allows voters to touch their candidates' names on a computer screen and receive receipts of their vote at the end of the process. They can then go to a Web site, punch in their voter validation number and make sure their vote was recorded.

U.S. Rep. Jim Cooper, a Democrat who represents Davidson, the eastern half of Cheatham and the western half of Wilson County in Congress, said the TruVote system was ''one of the most promising technologies in the world for fixing democracies.''

With a federal mandate for states to review and upgrade their vote casting systems by 2006, Mr. Gibbs' invention was getting increasing attention nationwide, Cooper said.

''Every once in awhile, we see a fundamental need in this country and someone comes up with a fundamental discovery to fill that need, and that's what Athan had,'' Cooper said. ''This is a tragic loss for the entire country.''

Mr. Gibbs was driven by his experiences growing up in Memphis in the 1950s and '60s, when minorities were struggling to exercise their right to vote. After a U.S. Commission on Civil Rights study of the 2000 presidential election showed that votes cast by African-Americans in Florida, a decisive state, were 10 times more likely to be rejected, Mr. Gibbs knew he had to take action.

His quests for democracy and social equality also were driven by his religious faith, and he served as an associate minister at Mount Zion Baptist Church in Nashville.

''As an African-American clergyman, Athan was consumed by a desire for justice, equality and freedom for all people,'' said the Rev. Enoch Fuzz, pastor of Corinthian Missionary Baptist Church. ''And, he just ran out full speed ahead and tried to accomplish that.''

Mr. Gibbs was an accountant and financial auditor for 30 years and started his own company, INCO Tax Service of Tennessee. He received a bachelor of business administration degree from Tennessee State University and a bachelor of theology degree from American Baptist College.

In the 1970s, former U.S. Rep. Bob Clement hired Mr. Gibbs as a financial analyst when Clement headed the Tennessee Public Service Commission. The two remained close friends over the past three decades, and Clement had been serving as a business consultant for TruVote.

Clement said Mr. Gibbs' energy and idealism were infectious, and he called Mr. Gibbs ''one of the finest people I've met in my life.''

''We in the U.S. have one of the worst voting records in the world, and Athan was out to fix that,'' he said. ''A lot of people have ideas but never carry them out. Athan was following through on his dream, and his energy level was phenomenal. I don't think he ever slept.''

In addition to his son, Mr. Gibbs is survived by his wife, Dorothy, and a daughter, Angela.



(more) http://www.tennessean.com/obits/archives/04/03/48330576.shtml

[Carl Brennan]

3. Thanks for this. That makes three crashes. "he wanted every vote

to matter".

[Carolab]

5. This TruVote story is HUGE

He was in a deal with MICROSOFT. The deal was a GO in January 2004. He died in March 2004. What happened with the TruVote system???

WTF?????

Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:30:20 -0500

"Mr. Gibbs made several trips to Georgia in recent weeks to demonstrate his TruVote machines which produce a voter verified paper ballot, storing them securely in a locked ballot box. He was to return this Monday to set up a demonstration for members of the Senate Rules Committee. He was a generous and friendly ally to our efforts to secure an auditable election system for Georgia voters."

http://ga.greens.org/pipermail/gpga-news/2004-March/000448.html

[FullCountNotRecount]

6. DID he mean FIXING democracies?

From article:

U.S. Rep. Jim Cooper, a Democrat who represents Davidson, the eastern half of Cheatham and the western half of Wilson County in Congress, said the TruVote system was ''one of the most promising technologies in the world for FIXING democracies.''

[Carolab]

7. NO

Read Mr. Gibbs' background. He was for real. He had a system voters could use to verify and prove their votes. Why was his system stopped? Someone didn't want this to come to pass. They wanted nonverifiable systems instead.

Question: When did ES&S and Diebold tie up their contracts??? ANYONE KNOW?

[seemslikeadream]

8. Bob and Todd Urosevich

Two brothers, Bob and Todd Urosevich, founded AIS in the 1980s. Today Bob is president of Diebold Election Systems, while Todd is a vice president at ES&S.

Diebold Election Systems, Inc., a wholly owned operating subsidiary of Diebold, Inc., recently won a $54 million contract to overhaul Georgia’s election system technology.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/11_10_02/Secret_Group_Manipulates/secret_group_manipulates.html

Vanishing Act
by Chris Floyd
19 September 2003

It's a shell game, with money, companies and corporate brands switching in a blur of buyouts and bogus fronts. It's a sinkhole, where mobbed-up operators, paid-off public servants, crazed Christian fascists, CIA shadow-jobbers, war-pimping arms dealers – and presidential family members – lie down together in the slime. It's a hacker's dream, with pork-funded, half-finished, secretly programmed computer systems installed without basic security standards by politically partisan private firms, and protected by law from public scrutiny. It's how the United States, the "world's greatest democracy," casts its votes. And it's why George W. Bush will almost certainly be the next president of the United States – no matter what the people of the United States might want.

The American vote-count is controlled by three major corporate players – Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia – with a fourth, Science Applications International Corporation, coming on strong. These companies – all of them hardwired into the Bushist Party power grid – have been given billions of dollars by the Bush Regime to complete a sweeping computerization of voting machines nationwide by the 2004 election. These glitch-riddled systems – many using "touch-screen" technology that leaves no paper trail at all – are almost laughably open to manipulation, according to corporate whistleblowers and computer scientists at Stanford, Johns Hopkins and other universities.

The technology had a trial run in the 2002 midterm elections. In Georgia, serviced by new Diebold systems, a popular Democratic governor and senator were both unseated in what the media called "amazing" upsets, with results showing vote swings of up to 16 percent from the last pre-ballot polls. In computerized Minnesota, former Vice President Walter Mondale – a replacement for popular incumbent Paul Wellstone, who died days before the vote – was also defeated in a large last-second vote swing. Convenient "glitches" in Florida saw an untold number of votes intended for the Democratic candidate registering instead for Governor Jeb "L'il Brother" Bush. A Florida Democrat who lost a similarly "glitched" local election went to court to have the computers examined – but the case was thrown out by a judge who ruled that the innards of America's voting machines are the "trade secrets" of the private companies who make them.

Who's behind these private companies? It's hard to tell: The corporate lines – even the bloodlines – of these "competitors" are so intricately mixed. For example, at Diebold – whose corporate chief, Wally O'Dell, a top Bush fundraiser, has publicly committed himself to "delivering" his home state's votes to Bush next year – the election division is run by Bob Urosevich. Bob's brother, Todd, is a top executive at "rival" ES&S. The brothers were originally staked in the vote-count business by Howard Ahmanson, a member of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing "steering group" stacked with Bushist faithful.

Ahmanson is also one of the bagmen behind the extremist "Christian Reconstructionist" movement, which openly advocates a theocratic takeover of American democracy, placing the entire society under the "dominion" of "Christ the King." This "dominion" includes the death penalty for homosexuals, exclusion of citizenship for non-Christians, stoning of sinners and – we kid you not – slavery, "one of the most beneficent of Biblical laws."

Ahmanson also has major holdings in ES&S, whose former CEO is Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. When Hagel ran for office, his own company counted the votes; needless to say, his initial victory was reported as "an amazing upset." Hagel still has a million-dollar stake in the parent company of ES&S. In Florida, Jeb Bush's first choice for a running mate in his 1998 gubernatorial race was ES&S lobbyist Sandra Mortham, who made a mint installing the machines that counted Jeb's votes.
more
http://www.doublestandards.org/floyd4.html

Tales From the Grassy Knoll
Text by Eva Sion
Illustration by: Isaac Novak

Theonomic Reconstructionism:
One God, One Vote:

"We protect the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Now, we protect the most sacred treasure we have, our secret ballot." -Diebold CEO Wally O'Dell, May 2002.
"My purpose is total integration of biblical law into our lives." -Howard Ahmanson

How does a fervent belief in the End of the World and a conviction that the Bible (King James only, thank you ma'am) is the actual revealed word of God factor into one's long-term investment strategies? A strange question to be sure, but one that must have been posed by at least a few of the eclectic crowd who believe in Theonomic Reconstructionism.

Theonomic Reconstructionism is a belief that the only true authority is God's, that allegiance to biblical laws trumps that of civic law and that the Kingdom of Heaven needs to be built on Earth before Jesus will come again. In addition to that, homosexuals should be put to death, women should be banned from civic office, apostates and heretics should be stoned to death and there is a great need for more Christian politicians.

Not content to philosophize about such things, the TR movement sprang into action. Funded by billionaires such as Howard Ahmanson and the Coors and Hunt families, Reconstructionists formed think tanks such as the Chalcedon Institute and the Rutherford Institute (the friendly guys that funded Paula Jones' lawsuit against Clinton) to give the Christian Right a philosophical base to draw from, and political action committees to finance their elections.

....

According to the Reconstructionists, Jesus would do what Howard Ahmanson did. Ahmanson inherited his money from his father, owner of Home Savings & Loan (during the S&L scandal of the Reagan years, Home's investors, mostly small family investments, lost over $150 million dollars. No one went to jail). In addition to funding PACs and think tanks, Howard Jr. parlayed his fortune into the majority stock of a business called American Information Systems (AIS) started by two enterprising brothers, Todd and Bob Urosevich. AIS later merged with Business Records Corporation (BRC) and became Election Systems & Solutions (ES&S). ES&S is the number one provider of touch-screen voting machines. Their website claims that their products were used in collecting 56% of the national vote in the last presidential elections.

Todd Urosevich is now Vice President of ES&S. Strangely enough, brother Bob moved on to head the second largest computerized vote-counting business, Global Election Systems, recently purchased by ATM and security giant Diebold. (They now have both the Ohio and Georgia contracts.) In a round table swap of incestuous patronage the previous executives of Global moved on to head the third largest vote-counting company in the nation, Advanced Voting Systems. Combined, these three corporations will process nearly 80% of the next nationwide elections.


more
http://www.tabletnewspaper.com/politics/73_tftgk.html

[Carolab]

9. Gibbs was killed, no doubt

Gibbs' death bears heightened scrutiny because of the way he lived
his life after the 2000 Florida election debacle. I interviewed
Athan Gibbs in January of this year. "I've been an accountant,
an auditor, for more than thirty years. Electronic voting machines
that don't supply a paper trail go against every principle of
accounting and auditing that's being taught in American business
schools," he insisted.

"These machines are set up to provide paper trails. No business
in America would buy a machine that didn't provide a paper trail
to audit and verify its transaction. Now, they want the people
to purchase machines that you can't audit? It's absurd."

Gibbs was in Columbus, Ohio proudly displaying his TruVote
machine that offered a "VVPAT, that's a voter verified paper
audit trail" he noted.

Gibbs also suggested that I look into the "people behind the
other machines." He offered that "Diebold and ES& S are real
interesting and all Republicans. If you're an investigative
reporter go ahead and investigate. You'll find some interesting
material."

Gibbs' TruVote machine is a marvel. After voters touch the screen,
a paper ballot prints out under plexiglass and once the voter compares
it to his actual vote and approves it, the ballot drops into a lockbox
and is issued a numbered receipt. The voter's receipt allows the track
his particular vote to make sure that it was transferred from the
polling place to the election tabulation center.

My encounter with Gibbs led to a cover story in the Columbus Free
Press March-April issue, entitled, "Diebold, electronic voting and
the vast right-wing conspiracy." The thesis I advanced in the Free
Press article (http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/834)
is that some of the same right-wing individuals who backed the
CIA's covert actions and overthrowing of democratic
elections in the Third World in the 1980s are now involved in
privatized touch screen voting. Additionally I co-wrote an article
(http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html)
with Harvey Wasserman that was posted at MotherJones.com on
March 5, 2004. Both articles outlined ties between far right
elements of the Republican Party and Diebold and ES&S, which
count the majority of the nation's electronic votes.

As I wrote in the Free Press article, "Proponents of a paper
trail were emboldened when Athan Gibbs, President and CEO of
TruVote International, demonstrated a voting machine at a vendor's
fair in Columbus that provides two separate voting receipts."

In an interview on WVKO radio, Gibbs calmly and methodically
explained the dangers of "black box" touch screen voting.
"It absolutely makes no sense to buy electronic voting machines
that can't produce a paper trail. Inevitably, computers mess up.
How are you going to have a recount, or correct malfunctions
without a paper trail?

Now, the man asking the obvious question, and demonstrating
an obvious tangible solution is dead in another tragic accident,
a week after both articles were in circulation. When I called
TruVote International to verify Gibbs' death, I reached Chief
Financial Officer Adrenne Brandon who assured me "We're going
on in his memory. We're going to make this happen." Every American
concerned with democracy should pledge to make this happen.
To beat back the rush for state governments to purchase privatized,
partisan and unreliable electronic voting machines without verified
paper trails.

Gibbs' last words to me were "How do explain what happened to
Senator Max Cleland in Georgia. How do you explain that?
The Maryland study and the Johns Hopkins scientists have
warned us against 'blind faith voting.' These systems can
be hacked into. They found patches in Georgia and the people
servicing the machine had entered the machines during the
voting process. How can we the people accept this?
No more blind faith voting."

http://www.opednews.com/fitrakis031804_silkwood_evoting.htm

*************
AND:

The TruVote Voter Validation and Verification System, invented by African-American inventor Athan Gibbs, Sr., has won the enthusiastic support of the National Conference of Black State Legislators (NCBSL) at its November 2001 meeting and from the World Conference of Mayors at its recent meeting in Atlanta, Ga. Being heralded across America as the next generation voting system, TruVote has won the praise of such notables as John Seigenthaler, a member of the Federal Election Reform Commission (headed by former presidents Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford); Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson, chairperson of the congressional Black Caucus; Larry English of Data Management Review; Maynard Jackson, chairperson of the Democratic National Committee's Voting Rights Institute, Congressman Bob Clement, a number of secretaries of state, state legislators and county election officials. For more information, send email to: [e-mail].

http://www.unityfirst.com/ufthisweekfeb42002.htm

[goclark]

23. I have not heard this- AMAZING!!!

Thank you for this post.
I am still in shock.

It was fixed from the beginning.

As an African American, I am also sure that there is no way they were going to let an African American get his idea out, no way.
This is sad.

It should be sent to far and wide.

[RevCheesehead]

26. The Bush family legacy lives on.

"...some of the same right-wing individuals who backed the
CIA's covert actions and overthrowing of democratic
elections in the Third World in the 1980s are now involved in
privatized touch screen voting."

And which certain VP, in the 1980's, was once the head of the CIA?
Honestly, this goes way beyond tinfoil hat.....

[Carl Brennan]

28. CIA tampering with elections

This is about the 2002 elections.

......Like Ohio, the State of Maryland was disturbed by the potential for massive electronic voter fraud. The voters of that state were reassured when the state hired SAIC to monitor Diebold’s system. SAIC’s former CEO is Admiral Bill Owens. Owens served as a military aide to both Vice President Dick Cheney and former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci, who now works with George H.W. Bush at the controversial Carlyle Group. Robert Gates, former CIA Director and close friend of the Bush family, also served on the SAIC Board. <snip>

Wherever Diebold and ES&S go, irregularities and historic Republican upsets follow. Alastair Thompson, writing for scoop.co of New Zealand, explored whether or not the 2002 U.S. mid-term elections were “fixed by electronic voting machines supplied by Republican-affiliated companies.” The scoop investigation concluded that: “The state where the biggest upset occurred, Georgia, is also the state that ran its election with the most electronic voting machines.” Those machines were supplied by Diebold.

Wired News reported that “. . . a former worker in Diebold’s Georgia warehouse says the company installed patches on its machine before the state’s 2002 gubernatorial election that were never certified by independent testing authorities or cleared with Georgia election officials.” Questions were raised in Texas when three Republican candidates in Comal County each received exactly the same number of votes - 18,181.

Following the 2003 California election, an audit of the company revealed that Diebold Election Systems voting machines installed uncertified software in all 17 counties using its equipment.

Former CIA Station Chief John Stockwell writes that one of the favorite tactics of the CIA during the Reagan-Bush administration in the 1980s was to control countries by manipulating the election process. “CIA apologists leap up and say, ‘Well, most of these things are not so bloody.’ And that’s true. You’re giving politicians some money so he’ll throw his party in this direction or that one, or make false speeches on your behalf, or something like that. It may be non-violent, but it’s still illegal intervention in other country’s affairs, raising the question of whether or not we’re going to have a world in which laws, rules of behavior are respected,” Stockwell wrote. Documents illustrate that the Reagan and Bush administration supported computer manipulation in both Noriega’s rise to power in Panama and in Marcos’ attempt to retain power in the Philippines. Many of the Reagan administration’s staunchest supporters were members of the Council on National Policy. <snip>

Dr. Bob Fitrakis is Senior Editor of The Free Press (<http://freepress.org> ), a political science professor, and author of numerous articles and books.

<http://www.mediareform.net> /

[RevCheesehead]

29. I WANT OUT OF THE MATRIX!

Please, Morpheus, I want the other pill!

Short of an all-out revolution, what can we do???

[Carolab]

10. More on ES&S connections

Who Makes the Voting Machines?

Appearance of Impropriety — New Questions About the Integrity and Security of USA Elections

The story is not about allegations of fraud — it's about an appearance of impropriety that is stunning in its magnitude.

Unfettered by any disclosure regulations about ownership or political affiliations, just a few companies create and control almost all the voting machines in the U.S. Do the people who own them have conflicts of interest? We don't know, they won't tell us. Do they employ anyone with a criminal record? We don't know, they say it's private. Can we have someone check the vote-counting code to make sure no one tampered with it? Nope, they say its proprietary.

Election Systems & Software, the firm whose machines were involved in the 2002 flubbed Florida primary election — and the company that now makes the voting machines for most of America — is a private company that does not like to tell the public who owns it. But at least one major shareholder is Michael R. McCarthy, who runs the McCarthy Group. The McCarthy Group has been a primary owner of Election Systems & Software, including its predecessor, American Information Systems for more than a decade. Michael R. McCarthy is the current campaign Treasurer for Republican senator Chuck Hagel. Prior to his election, Republican Senator Hagel was president of McCarthy & Company. In fact, he decided to run for office while his own company was making the vote-counting machines!

Who cares? Poll workers count the votes, not election machines, right?

Wrong. The machines count the votes, and if you have any doubt about how critical it is for owners to disclose their information (as they must if they run lottery companies) read this: article by Ronnie Dugger, who will show you how easy it is for a single insider to fudge the vote-counting on these machines, in ways that can never be detected.

Why isn't tampering detectable?

Well, for one thing because the voting machine-makers fought in court to make their computerized vote-counting code "proprietary." Only their own programmers, it seems, are allowed to look at the innards of the code. Independent computer consultants almost unanimously cite the voting machine's impenetrable code as a security flaw. Difficult to detect tampering, yet relatively simple to implant an undetectable Trojan Horse to change counting algorithms.

And many of the new machines don't have paper trails

In Florida when votes were lost, election workers had to retrieve the hard drive as a back- up, because there were no paper ballots. But, if there was mischief in the computerized counting code, there would be absolutely no way to prove it. In California, thousands of votes just disappeared due to a computer glitch. What's up with this? Even the tax guys insist on a paper trail. (Just try telling an IRS auditor that your computer ate it.)

The other owner: Databases, personal information, mass communications, voter registration and vote-counting machines

The World-Herald Company, who owns the largest part of Election Systems & Software, likes to offer up a warm, fuzzy, "family and employee-owned" newspaper company as the owner. The company is actually something quite different. The newspaper is a small part of the overall business — the real business of The World Companies is controlling a vast nationwide communications network: elections services, including all forms of voting machines (punch card, optical scanning and touch-screen); databases containing personal information on almost everyone in the USA, huge direct mailing firms, phone message broadcasting, fax blasting, mass e-mailing, publicity, advertising, Internet services and printing, and affiliations with cellular communication systems. The World Companies have operations in Texas, Illinois, Georgia, Nebraska, California, Iowa and Arizona — and most have nothing to do with newspapers.

Wouldn't it be prudent to obtain names, political activities and corporate affiliations of major shareholders, directors and executives of the privately held companies who make our vote-counting machines? And could it be a bit reckless for Democracy to hand voter registration assignments over to a firm with active ties to political campaigns, which also has access to databases containing the race and political preferences of almost everyone in the USA?

Seventy percent of Election Systems & Software is owned by a partnership of the World Companies and the McCarthy Group. But who owns the McCarthy Group (besides Republican operative Michael R. McCarthy)? World Investments, a wholly- owned subsidiary of the Omaha World-Herald Co. (the conglomerate, not the newspaper), is a primary investor in the McCarthy Group. Round and round we go.

But speaking of newspapers, thank goodness a thoroughly objective organization like the Omaha World-Herald is involved with Election Systems & Software. "The delays were the result of start-up errors by poll workers, not malfunctions by the company's election equipment," the Omaha World-Herald reports.

Who are these people, anyway?

We could go on for a week on this, and probably will. We've collected over 58 pages of information and there's more to come. Let's get started:

Election Systems & Software was formed by a merger of American Information Systems (AIS), a huge election company featuring several Republican owners, and Business Records Corp., part of Cronus Industries, in turn partially owned by a member of the Hunt oil family of Texas.

World Companies, Inc.: This is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Omaha World- Herald. It is a holding company with substantial ownership in Election Systems & Software, and it also controls World Marketing Inc., which operates gigantic databases and mammoth direct marketing companies. Election Systems & Software is also involved in voter registration services, and no one has questioned whether there is a conflict of interest with voter registration activity and access to the nation's largest databases containing race, political affiliations and other demographics.

Let me amend that: Investigative reporter Greg Palast can fill you in on exactly how to embezzle an election using tainted voter registration procedures. Jump to the bottom of this article for a list of "Six Ways to Fix Pesky Votes" uncovered by Palast. And by all means read Chapter 1 of his new book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, very carefully.

Questionable associations and relationships abound in the conglomerate that owns Election Systems & Software. One person with shares in the World Companies Inc. is Harold W. Andersen, who is on the board of directors for The Williams Companies — yes, that Williams Energy, recently exposed by CBS for creating a sham energy crisis in California. CBS cites tapes, now sealed by the government, that prove Williams Energy turned off the juice, faking an energy shortage.

M. Gene Aldridge, the president and CEO of Omaha World-Herald subsidiary World Marketing, Inc. (the one that runs all those databases — he knows if you've been black or white, he knows if you are poor...) is part of a conservative think tank, the New Mexico Independence Research Institute, and when he's not busy running the jumbo- sized database and direct marketing company, he is writing letters to Congress advocating that we take the huge future tax cuts and give them to the rich RIGHT NOW.

Here's more information on how Election Systems & Software came about, and who owns it:

From a 1996 article in The Omaha World-Herald:

"An Omaha company would become the nation's No. 1 ballot counter in a planned $59.3 million combination with a Dallas-based competitor...

"BRC is headed by a former Omahan, P.E. "Bill" Esping, who was a founder of First Data Resources.

"Under the agreement, American Information Systems would acquire the election division of Business Records. Both companies sell election counting and voter registration equipment and services based on optical scanners and paper ballots marked with pencils.

"Of the purchase price, $35 million would be in cash, $17.5 million in a note and the rest in stock of American Information, giving BRC about 20 percent ownership of the Omaha company. Stock owned by American Information employees would account for an additional 10 percent with the remaining 70 percent owned by a partnership of the Omaha World-Herald Co. and the McCarthy Group, an Omaha investment banking company. American Information's share of the U.S. election automation market would increase to more than 50 percent..."

Let's have happy thoughts:

Before the 2002 Election, let's get disclosure from the handful of companies who make the voting machines that count our votes. These companies have nothing to hide (right?) so they should do this voluntarily. Then, Senator Hagel will lead the charge (won't he?) and he'll protect us from a situation that is, frankly, dangerous to Democracy, by getting some regulations in place:

(1) Require that any company who makes voting machines publicly disclose identities and political activities. And while we're at it, maybe criminal background checks are a nice idea, because if Republicans can control the big corporations that make the voting machines, just think what would happen if some crooks got into it. But I repeat myself.

(2) Require that all voting machines produce tamper-proof audit trails — and that means retaining a paper trail — using transparent computer code so that independent experts can investigate allegations of election tampering whenever needed.

More info:

Before Repiglicans start the squealing ("How DARE you bring this up so close the the
election, you know we have no time to rebut this") — well, you can verify the facts yourself, in most cases using their own documents, if you go to google and run the following search terms:
"Election Systems & Software"
"McCarthy Group"
"Michael R. McCarthy"
"Charles T. Hagel"
"World Marketing Inc."
"World Investments Inc."
— You'll find enough traceable leads to keep you busy for a week, if you run searches on the names and other related companies. * * * * *

http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php

[GettysbergII]

11. The Dominionists (Christian Reconstructionists) at it again, eh.

Seems like they are under just about every rock you turn over these days. Forgive me for reposrting this again:

The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 and the Dominionists

Militant Christian Fundamentalism poses a definite threat to the Constitution and the American way of life as we know it. Check out the meat of The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 which is a bill currently in Congress pushed by the Dominionists. This is a bizarre perversion of Christianity that was founded by R.J. Rushdoony, who also co-founded the Council for National Policy, the very scary secret society of awful rich and powerful wingnuts. These is a real sick religion of some real sick puppies and if we can get an awareness of this bill and this religion out to the consciousness of mainstream America, I truly believe the American people will be outraged. We need to force the religious right to either publically denounce this theology or embrace it a genuine form of ¡¥Christianity¡¦. Either way the vast majority of the country will be appalled and be forced to rethink which party stands on higher moral ground. Please investigate these links thoroughly.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR03799:@@...

Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 - Amends the Federal judicial code to prohibit the U.S. Supreme Court and the Federal district courts from exercising jurisdiction over any matter in which relief is sought against an element of Federal, State, or local government or officer of such government by reason of that element's or officer's acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.

Prohibits a court of the United States from relying upon any law, policy, or other action of a foreign state or international organization in interpreting and applying the Constitution, other than the constitutional law and English common law.

Provides that any Federal court decision relating to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction by this Act is not binding precedent on State courts.

Provides that any Supreme Court justice or Federal court judge who exceeds the jurisdictional limitations of this Act shall be deemed to have committed an offense for which the justice or judge may be removed, and to have violated the standard of good behavior required of Article III judges by the Constitution.




http://www.thementalmilitia.org/modules.php?op=modload&...
The Dominionist movement was founded by the R.J. Rushdoony,who also co-founded the Council for National Policy, where many think the real Republican Convention takes place

The "Constitution Restoration Act of 2004" is no joke; it was introduced last month by some of the Bush Regime's most powerful Congressional sycophants. If enacted, it will effectively transform the American republic into a theocracy, where the arbitrary dictates of a "higher
power" -- as interpreted by a judge, policeman, bureaucrat or president -- can override the rule of law.

The Act -- drafted by a minion of television evangelist Pat Robertson -- is the fruit of decades of work by a group of extremists known broadly as "Dominionists." Their openly expressed aim is to establish "biblical rule" over every aspect of society -- placing "the state, the school,
the arts and sciences, law, economics, and every other sphere under Christ the King." Or as Attorney General John Ashcroft -- the nation's chief law enforcement officer -- has often proclaimed: "America has no king but Jesus!"

According to Dominionist literature, "biblical rule" means execution -- preferably by stoning -- of homosexuals and other "revelers in licentiousness"; massive tax cuts for the rich (because "wealth is a mark of God's favor"); the elimination of government programs to alleviate poverty and sickness (because these depend oÈÎn "confiscation of
wealth"); and enslavement for debtors. No legal challenges to "God's order" will be allowed. And because this order is divinely ordained, the "elect" can use any means necessary to establish it, including deception, subversion, even violence. As Robertson himself adjures the faithful: "Zealous men force their way in."

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/cor/domi...

There are many negative effects that the teachings of DT are having on evangelical Christianity today. Four of these would be:

(a) Reconstructionists teach that the mission of the church goes beyond the spiritual transformation of individuals, to a mandate to change society, a "moral patriotism," if you will, in opposition to secular humanism. For Christ to be pleased with Christians, thereby, they must become political and social activists. We must change the laws of the land, gear up to elect Christians to office, and generally seek to take dominion over our world and bring it under the Law of Moses. We see the influence of this thinking even in those who may know little about DT -- James Dobson, Larry Burkett, the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson, Promise Keepers, Charles Colson and the Evangelicals and Catholics Together document (ECT), and Operation Rescue, are but a few of the evidences that reconstructionist thinking is beginning to dominate the so-called evangelical world;

(b) Motivation for godly living, based upon the blessed hope -- the return of Christ (Titus 2:16) -- is replaced with the task of restructuring society. This cultural mandate to restructure/restore society is a task that may take thousands of years, even by the DT's own admission (approximately 36,000 years, according to David Chilton);

(c) If we are in the Kingdom of God now, then the Charismatics are correct to teach that health and prosperity is the right of every believer today. This is why "Reconstruction" Calvinists and "Kingdom Now" Charismatics have formed at least a loose unity -- they both have the same world view. They are not looking for Christ to return and set up His Kingdom; they are attempting to set it up for Him; and
(d) A theological anti-Semitism exists in the Dominionist plan to replace of Old Testament Israel with the Church, often called the "New Israel" (i.e., "replacement theology" -- the church replaces the Jews as the new or true Israel, and Israel has no future as a distinct nation within God's plan).

Here's a link to a more complete history of the Reconstructionist Movement:

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/reconstruct2.html

The following article is one of the best descriptions of Christian Reconstructionism that we have seen. Therefore we are quoting a good portion of the first part in order to prepare the reader for our conclusions. To obtain the rest of the article go to
Part 1: Theocratic Dominionism Gains Influence
Part 2: A Generation of Reconstructionists
Part 3: No Longer Without Sheep
Part 4: A Covert Kingdom
Frederick Clarkson is an author and lecturer who has written extensively on right-wing religious groups from the Christian Coalition to the Unification Church. He is co-author of Challenging the Christian Right: The Activist's Handbook, (Institute for First Amendment Studies, 1992), and is writing a new book titled Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Democracy and Theocracy in the United States, (Common Courage Press, 1996). This article originally appeared in the March and June 1994 issues of The Public Eye.

[Minstrel Boy]

13. "There was a man named Gibbs, a computer wiz...."

"There was a man named Gibbs, a computer wiz,
With a way to verify the vote.
They had much to fear,
This much is clear,
'cuz his car got run off the road.
And you won't be hearin' 'bout him and his big idea anymore...."


"ATM Voting Machines" by Paranoid Larry. Download the mp3 from his page.

http://www.paranoidlarry.com/

[Karenina]

12. Kick!

:kick:

[ignatzmouse]

14. Other suspect plane crashes

"Carnahan . . the Wellstones . . Diebold COO . . ChoicePoint Exec VP
Dan Rocco"

Not to go too tin-foil, but you might add JFK Jr. and the schoolgirl who made headlines for a grassroots disarmament campaign during the Reagan era (her name escapes me).

[Astrochimp]

16. and Jerry Litton in Mo.

http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=L000360


A great man.

I have a photo of us together,with my Father (local Mayor) I was about 12.

David

[Carl Brennan]

18. Litton's death allowed Ashcroft to move into state attorney general slot.

Then it must be remembered that a short two years previous to Wellstone's death another liberal democrat Mel Carnahan was running against a Bushista, John Ashcroft, when his plane crashed. As fate would have it Ashcroft lost to the deceased Carnahan showing, among other things that a dead Democrat, when all else is equal, is more desirable than a live Republican in Minnesota. But Ashcroft then was left to take on the job of US AG for Bush. But Carnhan's death was not the only plane "accident" death of a Democrat that benefited Ashcroft. In 1976 James Litton was running against Missouri State AG John Danforth for the Senator seat and expected to win "in a landslide victory" when he died in a plane crash. When Danforth left the AG's office Ashcroft took his place..... But then there are twelve other politicians, eleven opposed to a conservative agenda who have died in mysterious crashes.....even John Tower who Bush worked for at time of JFK assasination, but who was working on Iran Contra case ....... Kind of closes the loop doesn't it.


http://www.geobop.com/Wellstone/4
Since 1971, twelve plane crashes have killed eight prominent Democrats, compared to five prominent Republicans-one of whom is described as a liberal Republican. This simple statistic looks a lot more sinister when you factor in a few more statistics. For example, five of the Democrats were campaigning for election, compared to none of the Republicans. (At least, the references I read didn’t mention election campaigns in connection with the Republicans.)
At least six of the fatalities-four Democrats and two Republicans-were major threats to powerful interests, all but one because of their issues or whistle-blowing, while a seventh was on a plane carrying other people who posed a threat to the ruling class.

[seemslikeadream]

19. Wellstone - W R Grace

What was Paul planning to do to the biggest polluter on the face of the earth?

And those 3 poor W R Grace employees that dies in N Carolina small plane crash with all those environmental documents.


I want my archives back!

[seemslikeadream]

20. Plane Crashes, WR Grace, Deadly Asbestos, WTC Collapse & Wellstone

Plane Crashes, WR Grace, Deadly Asbestos, WTC Collapse & Wellstone
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-16-03, 08:21 PM (ET)
Plane Crashes, WR Grace, Deadly Asbestos, WTC Collapse & Wellstone
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-03 AT 08:30 PM (ET) In the recent NC plane crash, 3 WR Grace employees were killed: Joseph Spiak, general manager of specialty vermiculite (including the highly toxic asbestos containing Zonolite), Paul Stidham, director of environmental health and safety, and Richard Lyons, global health and safety manager. From: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/080400-02.htm Although Halliburton is an enormous operation with more than 100,000 employees in 120 countries, it is a relatively small player when it comes to asbestos litigation, at least when compared with W.R. Grace & Co., GAF and the Johns Manville Corp. Nevertheless, Halliburton has spent $99 million to settle or dispose of 129,650 asbestos suits, according to company records. From: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/9/12/192330/380 WR Grace Asbestos containing insulation was used at the World Trade Center (WTC). James Cintani stated that Grace Vermiculite did not contain asbestos. Unfortunately this was not true this material was 2-5 percent asbestos. 100,000 80 pound bags of this vermiculite was used in the WTC. In addition 9,150 pounds of MonoKote 3 was used at the WTC. Monokote 3 was about 20 percent asbestos. Therefore in total about 201,183 pounds of pure asbestos fiber from Grace was used in the WTC. From: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/ADD5A0C8A02AD67B86256C9C006CC522 White House budget office thwarts EPA warning on asbestos-laced insulation BY ANDREW SCHNEIDEROf the Post-Dispatch The Environmental Protection Agency was on the verge of warning millions of Americans that their attics and walls might contain asbestos-contaminated insulation. But, at the last minute, the White House intervened, and the warning has never been issued. The announcement to warn the public was expected in April. It was to accompany a declaration by the EPA of a public health emergency in Libby, Mont. In that town near the Canadian border, ore from a vermiculite mine was contaminated with an extremely lethal asbestos fiber called tremolite that has killed or sickened thousands of miners and their families. Ore from the Libby mine was shipped across the nation and around the world, ending up in insulation called Zonolite that was used in millions of homes, businesses and schools across America. Zonolite insulation was sold throughout North America from the 1940s through the 1990s. Almost all of the vermiculite used in the insulation came from the Libby mine, last owned by W.R. Grace & Co. Interviews and documents show that just days before the EPA was set to make the declaration, the plan was thwarted by the White House Office of Management and Budget, which had been told of the proposal months earlier. Former EPA administrator William Ruckelshaus, who worked for Presidents Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, called the decision not to notify homeowners of the dangers posed by Zonolite insulation "the wrong thing to do." "When the government comes across this kind of information and doesn't tell people about it, I just think it's wrong, unconscionable, not to do that," he said. " What right does the government have to conceal these dangers? It just doesn't make sense." The question about what to do about Zonolite insulation was not the only asbestos-related issue in which the White House intervened. In January, in an internal EPA report on problems with the agency's much-criticized response to the terrorist attacks in New York City, a section on "lessons learned" said there was a need to release public health and emergency information without having it reviewed and delayed by the White House." The EPA's files are filled with studies documenting the toxicity of tremolite, how even minor disruptions of the material by moving boxes, sweeping the floor or doing repairs in attics can generate asbestos fibers. Most of those who have studied the needle-sharp tremolite fibers in the Libby ore consider them far more dangerous than other asbestos fibers. In October, the EPA team leading the cleanup of lower Manhattan after the attacks of Sept. 11 went to Libby to meet with Peronard and his crew. The EPA had reversed an early decision and announced that it would be cleaning asbestos from city apartments. (NOTE: THIS STUFF WAS IN THE WTC TOWERS!!!) Peronard told the visitors from New York just how dangerous tremolite is. He talked about the hands-on research in Libby of Dr. Alan Whitehouse, a pulmonologist who had worked for NASA and the Air Force on earlier projects before moving to Spokane, Wash. "Whitehouse's research on the people here gave us our first solid lead of how bad this tremolite is," Peronard said. Whitehouse has not only treated 500 people from Libby who are sick and dying from exposure to tremolite. The chest specialist also has almost 300 patients from Washington shipyards and the Hanford, Wash., nuclear facility who are suffering health effects from exposure to the more prevalent chrysotile asbestos. Comparing the two groups, Whitehouse has demonstrated that the tremolite from Libby is 10 times as carcinogenic as chrysotile and probably 100 times more likely to produce mesothelioma than chrysotile. (Please read. There's much, much more here.) From: http://www.msnbc.com/local/pisea/102011.asp?cp1=1 Murray promises to renew push for asbestos warnings By ROBERT MCCLURE SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER Dec. 30 - After revelations that the Bush administration squelched public health warnings about a widely used form of insulation that contains cancer-causing asbestos, Sen. Patty Murray vowed yesterday to renew her fight for a public education campaign. Murray, D-Wash., said she will demand an explanation this week for why warnings planned last spring by the Environmental Protection Agency were called off at the last minute by high-ranking Bush administration officials. Internal EPA documents show that about 15 million to 35 million of the nation's approximately 105 million households contain a brand of insulation known as Zonolite. Mined for decades in Libby, Mont., Zonolite contains a particularly lethal form of asbestos known as tremolite. "I just find it astounding that when this kind of information is available that can save people's lives, that this administration has decided to keep that secret and not let people know," Murray said. "Here's a health risk we can do something about." Murray's co-sponsor, Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., died in October in a plane crash. W.R. Grace says the insulation is safe, and wrote a letter to the EPA in April insisting that no health warnings are necessary. In addition to its use in insulation, the brownish-pink vermiculite was contained in garden products, cement mixtures and many other products. One of those products was as fireproofing in ceiling tiles used widely in schools and federal office buildings. Helping manufacture those tiles as a side job while in college likely gave Brian Harvey of Marysville mesothelioma, a disease caused only by exposure to asbestos. Harvey criticized the Bush administration's decision to pull the public health warning. "I have a real problem with that," Harvey said. "That I consider unforgivable." "At the top levels of the Bush administration, they are maintaining this cloak of secrecy that I can't imagine the people who I've worked with at the EPA are very happy about," Murray said. "Hopefully, the public will start crying out for Congress and the administration to do something about this." (more)


party_line (2235 posts) Jan-16-03, 08:50 PM (ET)
1. All that asbestos was turned to ash?
It might be interesting to know what becomes of the properties of asbestos when it is incinerated.
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-16-03, 08:55 PM (ET) Reply to post #1
2. It wasn't all turned to ash.
Most was pulverized into dust, and that's its most lethal form, by far.
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party_line (2235 posts) Jan-16-03, 09:03 PM (ET) Reply to post #2
4. Hasn't the EPA been doing tests?
Aren't several agencies doing air quality tests? This would show up, don't you think? With so much of it, you would think that the levels would be detectable.
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-16-03, 09:19 PM (ET) Reply to post #4
6. Read The Article.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/ADD5A0C8A02AD67B86256C9C006CC522 The question about what to do about Zonolite insulation was not the only asbestos-related issue in which the White House intervened. In January, in an internal EPA report on problems with the agency's much-criticized response to the terrorist attacks in New York City, a section on "lessons learned" said there was a need to release public health and emergency information without having it reviewed and delayed by the White House. "We cannot delay releasing important public health information," said the report. "The political consequences of delaying information are greater than the benefit of centralized information management." It was the White House budget office's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs that derailed the Libby declaration. The regulatory affairs office is headed by John Graham, who formerly ran the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis. His appointment last year was denounced by environmental, health and public advocacy groups, who claimed his ties to industry were too strong. Graham passes judgment over all major national health, safety and environmental standards. Thirty physicians, 10 of them from Harvard, according to The Washington Post, wrote the committee asking that Graham not be confirmed because of "a persistent pattern of conflict of interest, of obscuring and minimizing dangers to human health with questionable cost-benefit analyses, and of hostility to governmental regulation in general." FAA Head Whitman, Horinko and some members of their top staff were said to have been outraged at the White House intervention. "It was like a gut shot," said one of those senior staffers involved in the decision. "It wasn't that they ordered us not to make the declaration, they just really, really strongly suggested against it. Really strongly. There was no choice left." She and other staff members said Whitman was personally interested in Libby and the national problems spawned by its asbestos-tainted ore. The EPA's inspector general had reported that the agency hadn't taken action more than two decades earlier when it had proof that the people of Libby and those using asbestos-tainted Zonolite products were in danger. Whitman went to Libby in early September 2001 and promised the people it would never happen again. "We want everyone who comes in contact with vermiculite from homeowners to handymen to have the information to protect themselves and their families," Whitman promised. A government analysis of shipping records from W.R. Grace show that at least 15.6 billion pounds of vermiculite ore was shipped from Libby to 750 plants and factories throughout North America. In a confidential memo dated March 28, an EPA official said the declaration was tentatively set for April 5. But the declaration never came. Instead, Superfund boss Horinko on May 9 quietly ordered that asbestos be removed from contaminated homes in Libby. There was no national warning of potential dangers from Zonolite. And there was no promise of long-term medical care for Libby's ill and dying. The EPA's files are filled with studies documenting the toxicity of tremolite, how even minor disruptions of the material by moving boxes, sweeping the floor or doing repairs in attics can generate asbestos fibers. Most of those who have studied the needle-sharp tremolite fibers in the Libby ore consider them far more dangerous than other asbestos fibers. In October, the EPA team leading the cleanup of lower Manhattan after the attacks of Sept. 11 went to Libby to meet with Peronard and his crew. The EPA had reversed an early decision and announced that it would be cleaning asbestos from city apartments. Peronard told the visitors from New York just how dangerous tremolite is. He talked about the hands-on research in Libby of Dr. Alan Whitehouse, a pulmonologist who had worked for NASA and the Air Force on earlier projects before moving to Spokane, Wash. "Whitehouse's research on the people here gave us our first solid lead of how bad this tremolite is," Peronard said. Whitehouse has not only treated 500 people from Libby who are sick and dying from exposure to tremolite. The chest specialist also has almost 300 patients from Washington shipyards and the Hanford, Wash., nuclear facility who are suffering health effects from exposure to the more prevalent chrysotile asbestos. Comparing the two groups, Whitehouse has demonstrated that the tremolite from Libby is 10 times as carcinogenic as chrysotile and probably 100 times more likely to produce mesothelioma than chrysotile.
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-17-03, 11:20 AM (ET) Reply to post #6
14. After everything I have read lately
this just pulls it all together and makes me truely sick to my stomach. With tears in my eyes I read your post over again, stickdog. How can anyone not believe with this evidence that there are some very dangerous games being played out. Wellstone was murdered no doubt and now a few more. Will there ever be justice?
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-16-03, 10:44 PM (ET) Reply to post #4
7. More for those who like breathing asbestos.
http://www.labournet.net/world/0201/asbest1.html WTC asbestos horror from Montana vermiculite mine Report by Andrew SchneiderSt. Louis Post-DispatchFirst Published: 01/13/02 Mining town in Montana endured the horrors of disease from asbestos LIBBY, Mont. Much of the asbestos-tainted vermiculite that spewed from the collapsing World Trade Center was dug from a mine in the Cabinet Mountains above this picturesque Kootenai River town. And in Libby, as in New York, environmental and health officials failed to disclose just how dangerous the mineral could be. Miners digging vermiculite ore at the now-closed W. R. Grace Zonolite mine in Libby breathed dust containing asbestos fibers, then carried it home on their clothes to their wives and children. Trucks carrying the dust spread it throughout the town, and trains hauled the potentially lethal cargo to almost 300 towns across the nation. The company knew it was deadly. But it did not require miners to wear respirators. Federal and state officials knew the dangers, but they looked the other way. Until, that is, the death toll began to climb. So far, hundreds of miners and their relatives have succumbed to the diseases caused by the asbestos fibers that painfully destroyed their lungs. Hundreds more are clinging to a torturous life, sucking air from portable oxygen bottles. And the federal government says its testing has found signs of the disease in thousands more who have been examined. EPA and federal health investigators have been virtually living in this tiny town in the western corner of Montana just below the Canadian border since November 1999. Most arrived three days after the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported the deaths and contamination. They have studied the way asbestos kills - up close and far too personal. Their findings make suspect many of the absolute statements the government is making in playing down the hazards those living in lower Manhattan face from asbestos. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/54382_asbestos14.shtml NYC under an asbestos cloud SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCERMonday, January 14, 2002By ANDREW SCHNEIDER©2002 ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCHFederal and state officials have grossly underestimated the number of people in lower Manhattan who are at risk of lethal asbestos-related disease because of the collapse of the World Trade Center, independent experts say.Evaluations by teams of leading asbestos researchers show the increased risk to people who live, work or study in homes or offices that have not been properly decontaminated could be as high as one additional cancer death for every 10 people exposed.These figures come as leading government officials continue to insist that there is no long-term health risk to those living and working near ground zero from the dust of hundreds of thousands of tons of asbestos-containing products used in the floors, walls, ceilings and steel frame of the twin towers."I am glad to reassure New Yorkers ... that their air is safe," Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Christine Whitman said a week after the attacks.When the World Trade Center went down, the EPA and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration rushed teams to the site. They have gathered thousands of samples of the dust that blanketed lower Manhattan, but they used 20-year-old methods for collecting and counting asbestos fibers to assess the health risks. The agencies and their state counterparts said only low levels of asbestos were found in the air outside. "The public faces little or no danger from asbestos," numerous agency heads echoed.Civilian scientists and physicians hired by unions, tenant groups, contractors and New York political leaders found just the opposite. Taking hundreds of samples, many inside apartments, offices and condos, these experts used the newest electron microscope technology and fiber-counting protocols. They found far more asbestos fibers than did government investigators. These private experts -- all regularly used by the government as consultants -- found levels in the dwellings that alarmed many assessing the health risk faced by New Yorkers."If people continue living and working in places that still have dust in the carpets, furniture, drapes and heating and cooling system, these fibers will continue to be resuspended," Jenkins explained. "The elevated risk could be from around one in a thousand extra cancers to maybe as high as one in 10."Four other federal health experts -- two toxicologists, an epidemiologist and a physician -- from the EPA and the Centers for Disease Control, have studied the data gathered by Chatfield, Kominsky and a team headed by Hugh Granger of HP Environmental in Virginia. They agreed with Jenkins' interpretation of the data. http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/news/nw_020102_nyc_wtc.htm Asbestos Remains a Problem Near Trade Center NEW YORK, NY February 1, 2002 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ombudsman Robert Martin recently opened an investigation into how the agency has handled air quality concerns in the World Trade Center area since the September 11 terrorist attacks. The study will concentrate on the type of testing performed and the EPA procedures for informing the public about levels of asbestos and other toxic substances. Various testing laboratories hired by neighborhood tenants, labor groups, and contractors have found elevated levels of asbestos in apartments and offices, according to news sources (Seattle Post-Intelligencer, January 14, 2002; Los Angeles Times, January 18, 2002). However, EPA administrator Christie Whitman and many New York City officials have repeatedly assured Lower Manhattan residents that their community is safe. A senior EPA scientist, Cate Jenkins, thinks otherwise. The asbestos contamination in Lower Manhattan, up to seven blocks away from Ground Zero, is comparable or higher than that found in Libby, Montana, a designated Superfund site, she states in a recent report. http://landofpuregold.com/truth38.htm A Red Flag on Air Tests at WTCBy Juan Gonzalez, Daily News, March 21, 2002 In the days after Sept. 11, EPA officials used standards to determine dangerous asbestos contamination that were never intended to measure health risks, according to a new 43-page memo by a dissident Environmental Protection Agency scientist. Cate Jenkins, a 22-year veteran with the agency's Hazardous Waste Identification Division in Washington, charged that the agency "misrepresented safety levels and standards for asbestos" and failed to accurately detect possible health risks to the public. Jenkins first criticized her agency's handling of the World Trade Center disaster in late November, arguing that EPA officials effectively "waived" federal asbestos guidelines by endorsing lenient cleanup methods. In the days after Sept. 11, federal officials repeatedly referred to two "standards," one for asbestos in dust and debris and another for asbestos fibers in air. For dust and debris, the agency standard was 1% asbestos content. For air, it was usually 70 asbestos fibers per square millimeter of a testing filter. The "EPA has performed 62 dust sample analyses for the presence of asbestos and other substances. Most dust samples fall below EPA's definition of asbestos- containing material <1% asbestos>," EPA Administrator Christie Whitman announced Sept. 18. Whitman was correct about one thing. Most dust samples were below the 1% standard, but a significant portion were not. Around 35% of those taken in the first few days were above 1%. But as Jenkins explains in her memo, federal regulations never meant the 1% figure to be considered a health standard or even to be applied to measure dust. "She's absolutely correct, this is not a health-based standard," said Joel Shufrot, the executive director of the New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health. "People exposed to 1% or less can have significant exposure with adverse health impacts," he said.
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seventhson (1167 posts) Jan-16-03, 09:05 PM (ET) Reply to post #1
5. So - the three MAIN witnesses who could nail Grace died in the crash.
Engine failure? Power died out. Unexplained crash? Three dead witnesses? Wellstoned. If these guys had ratted on what Grace knew about the dangers to New Yorkers from the WTC asbestos (which I inhaled on my visit to the tower site) then there would be hell (and maybe billions in damages) to pay. And Bush is covering for them. Grace has ties to the Skulls/BFEE too. They are the company Travolta fought in "A Civil Action". I knew a Grace heir who went to Yale. He once told me "we're all guilty". I told him "Not me." Once again. Disgusting and VERY expensive if these guys had talked. Remember when the plane went down mysteriously? I asked who the passengers were. Brilliant reporting. EMPWeapons again? Wellstoned. Salaam/Shalom and Peace Out!!!Gore in '04!!! “I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I WAS TARGETED, BUT I certainly know that human rights activists are targeted,”“It’s a small story that tells the larger story of what’s happening..." THE LATE SENATOR PAUL WELLSTONE commenting on reports that he was the target of an assassination attempt in December 2000.
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patcox2 (745 posts) Jan-17-03, 11:35 AM (ET) Reply to post #5
17. The plane never lost power.
And it happened in broad daylight at an airport with hundreds of witnesses, and there was a black box and its been recovered. You are not as free to speculate wildly in such circumstances. Its easy enough to beleive the plane was sabotaged, as all the evidence so far in fact points to a faulty repair to the hroizontal stabilizer trim tab. Faulty repair? Maybe faulty on purpose? Thats so much more easy to believe than your chupacabra theory.
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-17-03, 04:23 PM (ET) Reply to post #17
21. I must agree.
This looks more like a message than anything. Killing these guys was probably second to simply sending them (and others?) a message that accidents can and do happen.
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-20-03, 10:33 AM (ET) Reply to post #5
50. Yes who were those employees
what did they know and what papers were they carrying that are now gone forever. Only the very people that could blow the lid off the biggest cancer causing conspiracy ever! Wellstone was murdered trying to uncover it. Watch Out Pat Murry!
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nu_duer (413 posts) Jan-16-03, 08:59 PM (ET)
3. Man. wtf is going on here?
Lotta connections and questions here. And the smear of Murray about her bin Laden commments - that coincided as well, didn't it? Guess she wouldn't get on a small plane. I would love to see some investigative reporting from some mainstream press on this. This looks like big, big stuff here. Thanks.
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ElsewheresDaughter (367 posts) Jan-17-03, 09:55 PM (ET) Reply to post #3
27. send link to this thread to GREG PALAST!

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Sophree (267 posts) Jan-19-03, 04:36 PM (ET) Reply to post #3
45. I fear for Patty Murray's safety
She should avoid small planes at all costs. Apparently, 'conspiracy stuff' is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.- Gore Vidal The harder they come, the harder they'll fall/One and all- Jimmy Cliff
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JohnyCanuck (482 posts) Jan-16-03, 11:18 PM (ET)
8. It's all ok folks
as any coincidence theorists will explain, it's all a BIG F**KING COINCIDENCE. Move along now, nothing to see here. You're holding up traffic. JohnyCanuck Proud founding member of Canadian Chapter - Cynthia's Grassy Knoll Society.
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Nottingham (1293 posts) Jan-17-03, 01:14 AM (ET)
9. OMG OMG OMG!! WHOAH!
That was just even more added reason to go after Wellstone! Have Any Dreams Lately!
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goforit (741 posts) Jan-17-03, 01:22 AM (ET)
10. OMG!!! Who is going to arrest Cheney and Bush??????
This is just going tooo damn FAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm just so damned TICKED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have got to bear down and do something!!!!!These guys are getting away with Bloody murder!!!!
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anamandujano (211 posts) Jan-17-03, 07:33 AM (ET) Reply to post #10
13. There have got to be plenty of people who
know they're at risk of having an accident. They would be smart to come forward before anything happens. Especially those on the inside who know facts.
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Cronus (1285 posts) Jan-17-03, 01:31 AM (ET)
11. Excellent work (eom)
Thanks. "...political leaders need not trouble themselves very much with reality provided that their performances consistently generate a sense of versimilitude." — Neil Postman (Amusing Ourselves to Death) Visit My Favorite Web Sites
Progressive buttons —http://brainbuttons.com/ Political Satire —http://bushspeaks.com/

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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-17-03, 06:09 AM (ET)
12. Just to make sure the morning
people don't miss this
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JackRiddler (109 posts) Jan-17-03, 11:28 AM (ET) Reply to post #12
15. kick!
x
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Nottingham (1293 posts) Jan-17-03, 11:39 AM (ET) Reply to post #12
18. Well I feel sorry for the People who live in Manhatten! Their Screwed!
Manhatten has truly been destroyed! Osama Bin Laudin has killed more than 3000!Have Any Dreams Lately!
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loudsue (1107 posts) Jan-17-03, 12:07 PM (ET) Reply to post #18
20. And Bush KNEW, and Bush LET IT HAPPEN!
NO JETS WERE SCRAMBLED!!FEMA HAD ARRIVED ON SEPT. 10TH!! Just more and more amazing "coincidences"!
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patcox2 (745 posts) Jan-17-03, 11:31 AM (ET)
16. The dust looked like snow falling even months after 9/11
I spent 3 days in Manhattan, midtown, in November of 2001. You could see the dust in the air, it was sparkly, like tiny crystals, and at night you could see it form halos around street lamps like tiny snowflakes.
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Nottingham (1293 posts) Jan-17-03, 11:41 AM (ET) Reply to post #16
19. Pat cox it was a Death Snow!
I feel truly sorry for the people who breathed it! Have Any Dreams Lately!
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-17-03, 04:31 PM (ET) Reply to post #19
22. Yep. No conspiracy other than this single conspiracy of silence
should be required to put this entire inhuman crew of corporate murderers behind bars. But, of course, a program director might have an accident if this story was featured on a primetime "news" magazine. And the judge and prosecutors might have accidents if this ever came to trial.
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goforit (741 posts) Jan-17-03, 08:06 PM (ET) Reply to post #22
23. Certainly there is something we can do before more get murdered
My god.......I can not stand sitting here typing away knowing that we have these premeditative murders happenning as we talk. Some how we have got to find a reliable connectionthat can resolve this serious problem.
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-17-03, 08:59 PM (ET)
24. More on the destination of the three W.R. Grace & Co. victims
From: http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/01/08/2003010834140.htm Crash ends promising lives in an instantBy Liv OsbyHEALTH [e-mail] Many were just starting their lives, like the two Clemson University graduate students, the Bob Jones University co-ed and the young father traveling with his adolescent daughter. Others, including the North Carolina computer salesman with two small children at home and three employees of W.R. Grace & Co., were just making a living when their US Airways plane flipped, crashed and burst into flames moments after takeoff Wednesday morning from Charlotte. W.R. Grace & Co. veteran Richard Lyons was global health and safety manager at Grace Performance Chemicals in Cambridge, Mass. Lyons, 56, joined the company in 1969. Married with two children, he lived in Lynnfield, Mass. Joseph Spiak, 46, also worked at the Cambridge site as general manager for specialty vermiculite (note: this includes the highly toxic, widely distributed brand of asbestos contaminated vermiculite marketed under the W.R. Grace brand name of Zonolite). A resident of Acton, Mass., he had been with Grace since 1981 and occasionally visited its Spartanburg facilities. He was married with two children. Paul Stidham was a newcomer to the company, joining last July as director of environment health and safety for Grace's corporate headquarters in Columbia, Md. He and his wife, Dora, and their two young children made their home in Howard County, Va. All three were on their way to a Grace mining plant in Enoree, S.C. "We are devastated and stunned by this tragic loss," said Grace CEO Paul Norris. From: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/gard31.shtml Asbestos found in many common garden products EPA tests to determine health risks Friday, March 31, 2000 By ANDREW SCHNEIDERand CAROL SMITHSEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTERS 2000 Seattle Post-Intelligencer. All rights reserved. Federal investigators have found potentially lethal forms of asbestos in several lawn and garden products that contain vermiculite, a mineral used in hundreds of such products nationwide. "I think it is cause for concern," said Dr. Christine Oliver, assistant clinical professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, who has about 600 patients with asbestos-caused diseases. "There is no safe level of asbestos exposure," she said. The EPA findings could explain some of the so-called spontaneous tumors that arise in people who have no known exposure to asbestos, Oliver said. "My contention is they are not arising spontaneously and these data support that," she said. "Who would have known asbestos was in these products?" After the first results came in, the investigators repeated the tests and confirmed the findings. The types of asbestos found were fibrous actinolite and tremolite, both classified as carcinogens by several government agencies. Concern about the safety of vermiculite was sparked by Seattle Post-Intelligencer stories in November about a now-closed W.R. Grace & Co. mine in Libby, Mont., where more than 300 miners and their family members contracted fatal diseases including asbestosis, cancer and mesothelioma because of their exposure to tremolite asbestos fibers in the vermiculite ore. The EPA's results confirm similar tests of several brands of potting soil, soil enhancers and vermiculite conducted by the P-I from December through March as part of the newspaper's ongoing investigation of asbestos dangers in the United States. "We got numerous calls from citizens who had read about the deaths in Libby and asked if there was asbestos in garden products, will they be exposed to it and will they become sick from it," McDermott says. "Yes, there is asbestos in some of the products. And, yes, in using the product the way many people do, asbestos can be released. Horticultural industry analysts estimate that at least 65 local, regional and national companies produce more then 375 lawn and garden products containing vermiculite. The world's largest vermiculite mine is in the northeastern corner of South Africa. Some U.S. companies buy it, but many say they purchase ore from the Grace mine in Enoree, S.C., or from Virginia Vermiculite's mines, owned by Robert Sansom, in Louisa, Va., and near Enoree. Officials at the EPA regions responsible for Virginia and South Carolina said there was no indication that the agency had inspected any of the vermiculite mines in recent years. EPA studies on vermiculite mines were done in 1981, 1982 and 1991. The studies showed the presence of asbestos at Grace's Enoree mine, but at levels far lower than those at Libby. "Asbestos is a toxic substance and if it's in commercial products, we have an obligation to look as far back as it takes, to get to the bottom of where it's coming from," says John Melone, EPA director of national programs, chemical division. "When that product leaves the mine, someone is putting it into commerce. Whoever that someone is, whether they own the mine or not, that person is responsible for knowing what is in the product. And we have a right to ask for that information."
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Nottingham (1293 posts) Jan-17-03, 09:44 PM (ET) Reply to post #24
25. So this stuff is everywhere!
Wow this is soo sad! Have Any Dreams Lately!
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-18-03, 01:00 AM (ET) Reply to post #25
31. Dude, they are still makings billions selling it!
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-03 AT 01:14 AM (ET) It's in everything from topsoil to insulation to fireproofing paint to door cores to auto gaskets to fertilizer to animal feed to concrete to bricks to plaster to pool construction materials to roofing. They even sell it to--get this--clean up asbestos and other toxic waste! http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/prodline.cfm?did=10 How does this sound to you? Recognized worldwide for their in-place performance and superior durability, Monokote products can be found in all types of buildings including high-rise construction, manufacturing facilities, schools, hospitals and sports facilities. above from: http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/prodline.cfm?did=3
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ElsewheresDaughter (367 posts) Jan-17-03, 09:49 PM (ET) Reply to post #24
26. Murray promises to renew push for asbestos warnings....
and murray was smeared in the media about her osama comments to silence her and make her look like a loop...murray was mckinneytized in the hopes of discrediting her.someone else posted this a few weeks ago..... Amazing , Grace airline travel gets riskier and riskier for certain folks... You remember this article:<snip> Murray promises to renew push for asbestos warningsBy ROBERT MCCLURE SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTERDec. 30 - After revelations that the Bush administration squelched public health warnings about a widely used form of insulation that contains cancer-causing asbestos, Sen. Patty Murray vowed yesterday to renew her fight for a public education campaign. Murray, D-Wash., said she will demand an explanation this week for why warnings planned last spring by the Environmental Protection Agency were called off at the last minute by high-ranking Bush administration officials. Internal EPA documents show that about 15 million to 35 million of the nation's approximately 105 million households contain a brand of insulation known as Zonolite. Mined for decades in Libby, Mont., Zonolite contains a particularly lethal form of asbestos known as tremolite. In Washington alone, at least 53,505 homes contain Zonolite insulation, according to lawyers who filed a class-action suit seeking to force W.R. Grace & Co., the Libby vermiculite mine's last owner, to warn homeowners of the danger. Now, look at who was on that plane that crashed in North Carolina: http://www.islandpacket.com/news/state/regional/story/2073734p-1989786c.html Paul Stidham, 46, of Dayton, Md., was traveling on business for his employer, W.R. Grace of Columbia, Md.Stidham, who was the director of environment health and safety at Grace's corporate headquarters, was one of three Grace workers on the flight. The other two, 56-year-old Richard Lyons and 46-year-old Joseph Spiak of Boston, were employees of Grace Performance Chemicals in Cambridge, Mass. Wow.....gee, it sure seems like a coincidence. Heck, the news media hasn't connected those dots. Nothing to see, please move along. The US government would never participate in targetted assassinations of "potential problems"... I suspected something like this. Just like the Choicepoint exec who died in a plane crash shortly after the florida felon purge was going to be examined. One of the other 2 Grace employees was director of the very area of environment and safety that would have been involved in the asbestos case. Did you know that Murray's asbestos education bill, introduced in July, was co-sponsered by Paul Wellstone? Seriously. Who knows how or if ANYTHING connects?
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JohnyCanuck (482 posts) Jan-17-03, 10:00 PM (ET)
28. Does anyone at DU know any NYC firefighters?
Or for that matter any other workers who took part in the rescue efforts or the cleanup of the WTC. If so they need to know about this. One way to help get this info out is to forward it to the people who are most likely to be affected. It's likely that these emergency workers would start showing symptoms or having lung problems first as they probably had the most exposure. For a start they should be warned of the possible medical problems they might run into so they don't pussy foot around about getting medical attention if they start developing any symptoms of lung problems. JohnyCanuck Proud founding member of Canadian Chapter - Cynthia's Grassy Knoll Society.
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ElsewheresDaughter (367 posts) Jan-17-03, 10:29 PM (ET) Reply to post #28
30. my husband is a hoboken firefighter and
i know 7 NYC firefighters and believe me this will be in thier hands tomorrow!btw hoboken is directly across the hudson river from the WTCthis is most disturbing...will this bush nightmare ever end?
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Eloriel (4958 posts) Jan-17-03, 10:11 PM (ET)
29. Stickdog, you are amazing
Simply amazing. Kudos. Ya know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see someone get to talk to some of the people under the 3 who were killed, or their wives/family, or both. Do you feel up to writing all this up for publication? If not, how about passing it on to someone like Greg Palast, or someone at MoJo? Surely someone somewhere can do something with this. Ya think? Eloriel Bush is neither a uniter nor a divider. He's a destroyer. "Face it," wrote Garrison Keiller in Time, "a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality."
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Nottingham (1293 posts) Jan-18-03, 01:04 AM (ET) Reply to post #29
32. i agree ya need to show this to someone! Its Awesome!
Awesome Awesome! Have Any Dreams Lately!
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goforit (741 posts) Jan-18-03, 01:09 AM (ET) Reply to post #29
33. Greg Palast is a great idea!! On the NY firemen call 1411 for info
and I'm sure they would find someone in Ny who would listen.I am so proud of all of you digging your heals in.Keep up the great work!!!
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-18-03, 12:32 PM (ET)
34. The Sordid History of WR Grace and the Lilly, MT Asbestos Mine
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/asbestos/chronology.shtml
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Despondent (51 posts) Jan-18-03, 03:28 PM (ET) Reply to post #34
35. Eliott Spitzer
NY'S Attorney General is someone you could forward this info to he seems to be on our side
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9215 (1541 posts) Jan-19-03, 04:06 PM (ET) Reply to post #34
42. Question
First I want to thank your for this fantastic work. I think you meant "Libby" not "Lilly" in your post title. The weird thing is that ex Eli Lilly head Mitch Daniels is Bush's OMB boy that Patty Murray sent a letter to on the asbestos warning being pulled. When I saw your post title I almost crapped me drawers thinking there was a link between Eli Lilly and WR Grace. Empoweryour Democrat representative. Send them important info on a topic. They will listen. Easy way to send your three national representatives e-mail with one letter: www.congress.org.
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Insider (2155 posts) Jan-18-03, 04:35 PM (ET)
36. hypothetical
for whatever reason, the towers are identified as a hazard (materials, construction, outdated, whatever). would the issue ever see the light of day?if so, what methods would be considered for destruction?how would the public (NY city, NY state, USA, world) handle plans to bring down the towers? what would be the response? Proud Member of The Grassy Knoll Society (Chesapeake Bay Chapter) Black slaves built the White House.
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-19-03, 04:24 PM (ET) Reply to post #36
43. I have to tell you that's guite the
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-03 AT 04:38 PM (ET) story you present. Sure does tie everything and I mean everything together! You know the more I think about it, God forgive them for they know not what they do, I believe you and stickdog have put it out there, how many will take note.
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stickdog (1116 posts) Jan-19-03, 02:24 AM (ET)
37. Wellstone vs. Corporate Asbestos Murderers
From:http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Zds7vaEKUrUC:wellstone.senate.gov/asbestos.html June 18, 2002 Wellstone, Murray, Dayton Introduce Bill to Ban Asbestos Joined At Press Conference By Susan Vento, Widow of Congressman Bruce Vento (Washington, D.C.) - Senator Paul Wellstone (D-MN) today joined Senators Patty Murray (D-WA) and Mark Dayton (D-MN) in introducing the Ban Asbestos In America Act of 2002 that would ban the 6 regulated forms of asbestos, require additional research into the risks associated with asbestos, and initiate a public information campaign increase awareness of the dangers posed by products that contain asbestos in homes and workplace"As chair of the subcommittee with jurisdictional responsibility for protecting worker health and safety, I am extremely concerned about the problems of asbestos contamination in the workplace," Wellstone said. "I also know first-hand, from the experience in my home state of Minnesota, how far the tentacles of asbestos contamination can reach. Thousands of residents in Minneapolis are potentially at risk from a facility that processed asbestos-laden vermiculite from the Grace Mine in Libby, Montana. And unfortunately this is only one of the many sites around the country experiencing this dreadful contamination." Today, asbestos is everywhere -- in brake pads, roofing shingles, insulation, corrugated paper and fire protection. Despite the fact that most Americans believe that we have we have banned asbestos, this deadly substance remains in products we use everyday. The health effects of asbestos can take up to 40 years to set in, but the consequences of asbestos exposure are often deadly. Among its many victims, Minnesota Congressman Bruce Vento (D-MN) died of mesothelioma from exposure to asbestos. "Asbestos contamination is not a thing of the past - far from it. It is killing and injuring countless numbers of people," Wellstone said. "We must do everything we can to end this devastating problem. While many recognize asbestos as a contaminant, in fact a carcinogen, I believe the American public would be shocked to know that asbestos is still being added to products on purpose." From:http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:uB2IDWMw-FUC:wellstone.senate.gov/asbestos.htm April 18, 2000 Wellstone Stands With Steelworkers in Opposing Asbestos Legislation Bills Before Congress Would Rob Victims of Their Basic Rights (Eveleth, MN) --Senator Paul Wellstone, joining steelworkers in Eveleth today, announced his opposition to a proposed settlement which would prevent workers afflicted with asbestos-related illnesses from collecting the compensation they deserve. Wellstone said legislation before Congress, if passed, would deprive workers of their basic right to receive just compensation for illnesses they unknowingly contracted while working in factories polluted with asbestos."This legislation is a slap in the face to steelworkers and other Minnesotans who struggle to put a roof over their families' heads and put food on the table; never mind pay high medical bills for diseases they contracted for doing nothing more than putting in an honest day's work," Wellstone said. "It would rob them of their right to just compensation, it would rob them of their right to see justice served on those responsible for making them sick, and it would rob them of their right to get their lives back on track. I will do everything I can to honor the labor of these workers, and friends like Bruce Vento, by fighting this legislation in the Senate."
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-19-03, 06:24 AM (ET) Reply to post #37
38. Thanks again stickdog
I think you've found the real reason we don't have Paul around anymore.
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opus460 (12 posts) Jan-19-03, 02:31 PM (ET) Reply to post #37
39. Bill number S.2641
I think we should all write to our Senators and ask the status of bill # S.2641 (Ban Asbestos in America Act of 2002). Seems they're just trying to let this die in a committee.
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Nottingham (1293 posts) Jan-19-03, 02:43 PM (ET) Reply to post #39
40. Hopefully the Bill didn't die like its Co Sponsor!
This is worse than Dioxin! Have Any Dreams Lately!
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-19-03, 03:07 PM (ET) Reply to post #39
41. Thanks for the info opus460
good idea. I was wondering who to send this stuff to. A hand written note along with a copy of what stickdog has posted here. A top 20 list of people that just might take it to heart if they only knew. Any suggestions? Maybe Grace employees families? Wellstone's family? Maybe they already know.
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opus460 (12 posts) Jan-19-03, 04:35 PM (ET) Reply to post #41
44. Show me the money!!!
Robert M. Tarola, Senior VP and CFO, W.R. Grace$1000 to Republican Senatorial Committee 1/22/01 Paul M. Norris, Chairman, President, CEO, W.R. Grace$5000 to Republican National Committee 10/10/2000$3000 to American Chemistry Council 3/6/2001$5000 to American Chemistry Council 4/16/2002$1000 to American Chemistry Council 2/22/2000$500 to GW Bush 6/4/1999 There could be more, just don't have the time to look it all up. Another interesting angle would be to look for any connections with Skull & Bone Society. Also looks to be strong links with the American Chemistry Council and Homeland Security.
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-19-03, 04:49 PM (ET) Reply to post #44
46. opus460 have you read insiders post 36
what do you think, interesting huh?
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reprobate (1755 posts) Jan-19-03, 05:11 PM (ET) Reply to post #46
47. Seemslikeadream
I'm a , but this seems like a stretch. Could you put it together for me? My mind keeps hitting walls on this. George Washington on crossing the delaware: "Move your fat ass, Henry. And do it slowly so you don't swamp the boat."As told by Gen. Henry "Ox" Knox. Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use, first to shrink wrap peoples brains, and then as cerimonial shrouds to bury the dead. Arundhati Roy
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seemslikeadream (441 posts) Jan-19-03, 06:13 PM (ET) Reply to post #47
48. You want me to say it outloud!
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-03 AT 07:04 PM (ET) Oh, no tooooo scary. You know though I have always been fasinated with the art of demolition. You know when buildings become useless or hazordous to peoples health and have to be imploded and all the rubble hauled away to a special dump. Maybe an EPA regulated dump for harmful materials. Somewhere safe from, lets say ground water? Maybe Insider post 36 would elaborate, that's where my nightmare started.
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opus460 (12 posts) Jan-19-03, 06:31 PM (ET) Reply to post #48
49. Fresh Kills Landfill
Most of the WTC wreckage was taken to this landfill: http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dcp/html/fkl/ada/about/1_0.html Though I haven't heard anything regarding the environmental impact, I hope there is a study done on the lower Manhattan and surrounding areas (including where I previously lived across the Hudson in NJ) residents over the next several years/decades regarding asbestos related illnesses.

[Desertrose]

21. I am speechless...how did I miss this before?

Thanks for posting this again SLAD

Its all making a lot more sense now...scary scary sense.

[seemslikeadream]

22. This was one of the first threads on Grace

There's other really good ones but I can't get to them now. Look at the date, almost 2 years ago!

[Carl Brennan]

25. WR Grace also had a large number of put options purchased

before 9/11.

Note: Cheney's wife Lynne is on board of directors of Lockheed which is also on this SEC list.


http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a048.htm
Google: "W.R. Grace"+options+WTC.
......."Just a month after the attacks the SEC sent out a list of stocks to various securities firms around the world looking for information. The list includes stocks of American, United, Continental, Northwest, Southwest and US Airways airlines, as well as Martin, Boeing, Lockheed Martin Corp., AIG, American Express Corp, American International Group, AMR Corporation, Axa SA, Bank of America Corp, Bank of New York Corp, Bank One Corp, Cigna Group, CNA Financial, Carnival Corp, Chubb Group, John Hancock Financial Services, Hercules Inc, L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc., LTV Corporation, Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc., MetLife, Progressive Corp., General Motors, Raytheon, W.R. Grace, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., Lone Star Technologies, American Express, the Citigroup Inc. ,Royal & Sun Alliance, Lehman Brothers Holdings, Inc., Vornado Reality Trust, Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter & Co., XL Capital Ltd., and Bear Stearns. "......
Also: http://www.entrefilets.com/trading_ap.htm
And.....http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/sept11/suspicioustradingact.html

[Carl Brennan]

30. ~~~~

[Xenus Sister]

17. Samantha Smith?

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id287.htm


Keep up the good work guys! I'm constantly being amazed.

[Slit Skirt]

15. ...OH MY GOD....

there is so much information on this election hitting DU...we need to make sure we keep all of it

this is war...this is a coup

[donsu]

24. If you didn't know about this before, you need to go to Bush Body Count

http://www.bk2k.com/bushbodycount/idex.shtml

[bear425]

27. link broken? or scrubbed...

[Wombatzu]

31. new address -->

http://bushbodycount.com/