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What groups are still working to Make 'Em Pay for the stolen election?

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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 01:05 PM
Original message
What groups are still working to Make 'Em Pay for the stolen election?
I'm trying to compile a list of organizations and even individuals who are continuing to gather evidence and pursue strategies to create repercussions for those who stole the 2004 election. I believe that if they can "get away with it" without any significant penalties in the face of such compelling evidence as there was this time, that we have little hope of ever having a fair election in the foreseeable future. I know they've already gotten away with it in many ways, but I beleive there are still things that can be done, and I want to know who's working on them.

Here's a start:

Left.org is pursuing use of the 14th amendment re: fair elections to decrease the size of Ohio's congressional delegation (see http://www.left.org for details about this strategy)

Rep. John Conyers, Jr. and the House Judiciary Committee Democratic staff have referred to their "ongoing investigation" of the election. Does anyone know what they're doing on an ongoing basis, and what their fugure plans are?

Black Box Voting is continuing to work to obtain evidence in at least Florida and Ohio and is training people in various places to do the same.

What else are you aware of? Please be as specific as possible and include contact information.

Thanks!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. the Moss v. Bush suit is still going on
haven't heard much of it lately, but supposedly they were able to submit all their documentation/statistics/affadavits, etc. into the case since the Ohio AG decided to try to to fine them.....i do wonder how that is going right now....
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. CASE, Freepress , the Ohio 4(attorneys), GAO (initiated through Conyers)
I am interested in hearing what (legal, not the DU letter writing) actions are underway against Blackwell. Looking at the inter-fighting between Petro (Repug OH AG-who is rumored to be seeking governorship) and Blackwell (also running for governor in '06), it might be prime time to go after him.

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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Can you share more details about what CASE is doing?
And do you have any hope for the GAO?

I'd also like answers to your Blackwell questions.

Sorry I left the Ohio 4/FreePress/Moss v. Bush issues off my original list. Of course they should be included.

I'm collecting this info to help the folks I work with figure out what strategies to take on next.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. USCountVotes...

But you already know of them, and they are more academically oriented than looking to push lawsuits.





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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. USCV is developing a tool to use in investigations
The question is, will anyone really be doing the investigating, and what will be done with their/our findings?
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm kinda wondering that in a way.

I'm working with them on the collection, but I'm wondering whether Freidman and the rest of the statisticians are going to continue to tackle stuff, or they just want to fight with Mitofski.

Like for example they haven't done NC, even though there are loads
of data for it in an easy to use form.

That said, Kathy says they by no means consider 2004 over.

(Oh and check out the thread on GA, that guy has gone ape on getting docs and is definitely looking to press a case.)

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seaclyr Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. I'm guessing USCV has a ton of stuff to work on
They may have more leads/ideas than they know what to do with right now. Also, they're probably working on getting the material ready for publication in academic journals and so on. And, most of them probably have teaching/other research to do. I'm imagining that they will continue, but in a time frame that reflects these constraints.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. The January 6th Coalition
A new/continuing project from your friends at thedeanpeople.org

www.january6th.org

If you represent a group, we would like you invite you to become a Coalition Partner.

As a Coalition Partner you would help us in our effort to increase public
awareness of the importance of the January 6th Electoral Vote Count:

In 2001, it was the day the US Constitution legally went into breach as a
result of the Stolen Election of 2000.

In 2005, it was the day we saw a glimmer of hope for the rebirth of our
real democracy, with a ragtag cooperative of grassroots activists,
representing only The People, successfully making themselves heard
above the Din of Cynicism that is the DC/Media Aristocracy.

In the future, it can be used as lifeline for our democracy. One that has
been desperately needed for many years.

We need you to help tow the lifeline. Contact us for more info.
---

www.thedeanpeople.org
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eaglenetsupport Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Need for quality investigation
You can add our group to "still working on it", Counsel for Government in Exile.

As I see it, there is only one way to get to the bottom of election fraud in 2004. The dems don’t have the spine or the votes (should they come to their collective senses) to do this in how we’ve come to expect of our government services to address grievances (FBI - Civil Rights Commission, Congressional hearings, appointment of Special Prosecutor to name a few).

A proper federal suite should be filed in key federal jurisdictions. It doesn't have to be a slam-dunk but needs to establish probable cause that a crime has been committed. In the “remedies” portion the litigants ask for the court to appoint a Special Prosecutor to insure this can never happen again. Mandamis should be considered.

The information to prosecute these crimes is there in massive quantities of documentation, participant witnesses, and money trail. No operation of this magnitude could be totally obliterated. But to get there it will take the authority of government to get to this evidence.

While the Presidential and Congressional capability to appoint a special prosecutor was “expired” the Office of Special Prosecutor is and always has been a part of the judicial branch and is alive. This is precisely the kind of case the office (I believe 1935) was created in the first place. If anyone knows a better way to get to the evidence I’d sure like to here it.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. When you say "our group," who do you mean?
Do you mean DU?

And are you pursuing this strategy or still in the thinking about it stages?
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eaglenetsupport Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. "our group"
Means Counsel for Government in Exile
We are new, (established 5 Nov 04) We are building a site and will be introducing a new concept to Internet organization capabilities.

Our focus is to fix the problem with the initiative procedure. But simply as a matter of justice and exposure, punishment should occur. We aren't big enough (yet) to pursue both avenues. I have significant experience in election law and that experience dictates pursuit of both. Either or should not be the question.

I would help with (para)legal research and can counsel within my experiences, but WE as a group, can't take the lead in litigation though that could change because I am speaking with attorney's of like mind all the time. Our state, Colorado, while there were problems, we would not be the strongest case. If I got involved in a case I'd likely be looking at Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, Washington state, and possibly California (I like the ninth circuit precedence).
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks for the explanation. Have you knowledge of "sunshine laws"
in Ohio and elsewhere? I'm wondering if and how we could use those to get posession of some of the evidence needed in the various investigations.

Do you have suggestions about how people without legal experience could get understandable info on these laws?
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eaglenetsupport Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. elections research - get the data
*************Disclaimer
I am not an attorney, therefore I can not give legal advise. I can talk about my personal experiences, and I can say “what I would do if I were you”. No information in this document should be construed by any entity or organization to be legal advise. Those wishing legal advise should consult an attorney within the jurisdiction they are interested.
*************

Basically that depends on the state sunshine law and what information you are shooting at. Lets pick on Ohio as you mentioned that state in your post.

The first thing you do in any legal matter is PULL the law and READ IT. Usually you can just google with a search string something like <ohio “sunshine law”> Almost all states have provisions in there laws stating that the language of the law must be written in a manor that common laymen with modicum of education can understand.

From this Ohio Attorney General page
http://www.ag.state.oh.us/site_map/sunshine_laws.htm

I pulled this PDF “2004_yellow_book.pdf” You’ll note that the doc is annotated with pertinent court rulings of tests to define and explain the law in the various tests it has encountered. I’ve pulled a list of the sunshine laws and the document disclosure laws from each state with citing and sections numbers of the revised code that can be pulled for your state. I put them both on my server so you don’t have to hunt so hard.
http://eagle-access.net/2004_yellow_book.pdf
http://eagle-access.net/sunshineallstates.doc

Most states have sunshine laws that primarily deal with public meetings, making private meetings of governing bodies illegal and requiring open meetings. In the case of Ohio, theirs is quite extensive and includes an “Open Meetings Act” and a “Public Records Act”. It appears to be one of the better sunshine acts I’ve seen.

Whether the public document discloser laws exist in sunshine or elsewhere in the particular states laws all states have provisions for discloser of public documents.

So Ohio would be a potential sunshine law that could be applied to garner data on the decision making process that went into choosing to place too few machines in democratic precincts. Here is an area were the “lay researcher” can have a great impact. Begin with a theory, like how did they organize the purposeful placement of too few machines in democratic strongholds? Similarly, How did they decide to place/keep antiquated 30-40 year old punch card machines in democratic strongholds (responsible for the majority of spoiled ballets) with full prior knowledge that 8% would be disenfranchised by spoilage, (around 250,000 voters if memory serves correct).

If I were a researcher in Ohio I would begin with Mr. Blackwells’ “calendar” or schedule. I’d want to reconstruct everything he did in his public performance as the Chief Elections Officer for 18 months prior to the theft. This is my root document. Perfecting the search would be ordering all minutes to all listed meetings in particular, meetings with the county elections officials that assisted him in the erroneous decisions. Order all minutes to those meetings. Order all transcripts or recordings of all those meetings. Order all info on number of machines available and how they are/were dispersed. Order that same info from across multiple previous elections including some for primaries.

Now, a month or so later your going to be sitting there with possibly thousands of documents. It may not look like much evidence but there is a ton. Before you, you’ll have many of the conspirators’ names and the meetings in acts in furtherance of the conspiracy. Now the hard part. Analysis and perfecting your research with subsequent requests for information that will expand on your discoveries. You should have some experience at this analysis or locate someone that does. It doesn’t have to be an attorney. It can be a para-legal or just someone with some experience.

Keep in mind that the conspirators are not going to state in a public meeting anything as easy as ‘OK remove three machines from each of these 16 precincts because they are 75% democratic’. They’re going to talk about that in the hotel or privately. What you are looking for is obvious evidence of certain decisions made but no allusion in the record as to why. That’s evidence of private meetings. You are trying to demonstrate that decisions are/were being made out of the public eye, a violation of the sunshine act. You will invariably find that these individual county elections officials didn’t just error in choice of number of machines per precinct. With this root evidence alone, our attorneys will show the court the unlikely hood of mere error in booth numbers. The attorneys will ask the court, which is more plausible, their explanation of simple error or the more likely scenario a coordinated act. Is it more likely that these six county elections officials all arrived at the same error in the same manor only at democratic precincts across multiple jurisdictions or the more plausible explanation, they acted together.

Your looking for evidence of known problems with machines and how they arrived at keeping them. For example, it has been reported that Blackwell has admitted publicly that he knew the punch card machines would disenfranchise and in fact has already slated them to be replaced with, you guessed it, touch screens with no paper trail.

Or another method might be to pass this info to those that CAN analyze. Getting the basic research can be a great help to legal folks. Back ground research of this nature can be very time consuming to an attorney putting together a case when their time is at premium, and many times just doesn’t get done.

By my count, there are at least 10 methods being utilized by republiclone operatives to disenfranchise. Develop theories for each scenario and attempt to devise research that will produce evidence to each type of conspiracy. Take anecdotal reports (that aren’t evidence by themselves), such as mountains of complaint forms filled out by voters and devise ways to get to the info that might exist in the public record. If I had a magic wand I’d wave it across every state and produce all the root info to see were the real search needs to happen. Note, the juicy stuff usually won’t ooze out till the second and third round of document requests if the clones have done a fair job at obstructing justice. But they will not be able to hide it. Their only chance to keep it hidden is we can’t get the research done and or we can’t get it in front of a proper body for adjudication. Rest assured it’s there, the conspiracy is too great to hide it all.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. This is soooooooo helpful, thank you! n/t
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. There was meeting in Florida last weekend on Florida fraud,etc.
some considering filing ethics complaints, reporting obvious fraud and malfeasance to proper authorities. See action plan at
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

Since the EIRS reports document thousands of cases of fraud and malfeasance in 20 states, I don't understand why there hasn't been action on this.
http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Have you tried contacting PFAW with this question?
It sure is relevant, and you're among thousands who are wondering!
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