Failing to Fight: Sen. Reid: "I think the Ohio count was bad" but glad Kerry pulled plug! (XPost)

[Land Shark]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x101566

[peacetalksforall]

1. Isn't that DLC all the way?

[Land Shark]

2. could very well be, could very well be. I'm not a DNC expert, but........ yup.

Reid believes that being a good american involves never dissenting even if millions of people's rights to vote, each and every one of them sacred, are at stake. Instead, the "good" thing is to instead genuflect to the authorities, and lay down and die so the media can tell millions that your concession means that THEIR right to vote need never be investigated, vindicated or otherwise fought for.

[Kurovski]

4. DNC and DLC are two different groups.

DLC is the corporate-embracing Republican-liters.

The DNC is headed up by Howard Dean, the man who---as he has said--represents the "Democratic arm of the Democratic Party."

[Land Shark]

6. Yup, typo, sorry

[catgirl]

3. He's talking about two different things here...

His statement about pulling the plug is in regards to last week, not two
years ago.

[Land Shark]

9. Sure doesn't seem to be the case, read the transcript

MATTHEWS: Do you think he was treated unfairly in the count or was it just in the campaign? Do you think he got a good count in Ohio, for example at the end of that election?

REID: Well, I think the Ohio count was bad, but he is a good American. He realized that it was time to end the election and not drag this on. I think some votes could have been changed in the state of Ohio, but John Kerry did the right thing. He just pulled the plug….

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16826322 /

[catgirl]

15. You're right, my goof

His comments don't make any sense. ????

[Geoff R. Casavant]

5. I'm glad Kerry pulled the plug too!

I was disappointed at the time, but in retrospect . . .

Suppose the fiasco of the last two years was happening under Kerry's watch rather than Bush's? Sure some things would have been done differently, but it still would have been a clusterf**k to a greater or lesser extent. And back then there was not as much mainstream acceptance of the fact that this is strictly a Republican war.

Kerry's decision to bow out in 2004 helped make the election wins of 2006 possible, and so will contribute to Democratic victory in 2008.

[Land Shark]

7. It's not kerry's personal property -- the office is the properly of We the People

see the American Creed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x466365

[Land Shark]

8. good lord that is twisted logic. Good to lose the presidency to help win pres later??

[Geoff R. Casavant]

10. No, more of a blessing in disguise. n/t

[Land Shark]

11. well, more like making lemonade out of lemons

optimism is one thing, but it should not be the kind of optimism that constitutes a positive belief despite all of the available facts (because at that point it may involve reality-denial and not just a positive attitude about the future given the unchangeable but acknowledged past)

[BeFree]

13. Blessing?

That our country has been taken over by theft and other dishonorable actions? The very idea is as un-American as can be.

[kster]

12. Obviously the Politicians won't help, So why

don't we go to court NOW and start suing to Hand Count the Paper Ballots in 08, if we start now, we will be one up on em.

They will have to explain over and over again in court, prior to 08, why We The People are only capable of hand counting 2% of our PAPER ballots, oh wait, some states have smarter people so they, get to hand count 3% of their Ballots.

If we start now, we can show the people how LAME the Politicians excuses are for not wanting us "We The People" to Hand Count ALL The Paper Ballots.



:)

[L. Coyote]

14. Give them a good reason to help and they will ....

I say knuckle down and start investigating for yourself.
If you wonder if you lack the skills, go out and get them.

Everyone going off on Reid should be working on presenting him with something actionable! He has a government to run, so don't expect him to do the legwork for your cause in Ohio. If you have evidence, bring it out. If you see a problem, investigate.

Below cited is a model study in just one county. Which county are you going to start on?

Defining the vote outcome probabilities of wrong-precinct voting has revealed, in a sample of 166,953 votes (1/34th of the Ohio vote), the Kerry-Bush margin changes 6.15% when the population is sorted by probable outcomes of wrong-precinct voting.

The Kerry to Bush 6.15% vote-switch differential is seen when the large sample is sorted by probability a Kerry wrong-precinct vote counts for Bush. When the same large voter sample is sorted by the probability Kerry votes count for third-party candidates, Kerry votes are instead equal in both subsets.

Read the revised article with graphs of new findings:

The 2004 Ohio Presidential Election: Cuyahoga County Analysis
How Kerry Votes Were Switched to Bush Votes

http://jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

16. well then, lets not give Mr. Reed anymore votes

if he thinks its a mistake to count them.

I am sick and tired of these politicians.

They lie and they pander and they want you to vote for them,
even promising to see to it that our votes are counted.

Then what do they do?

There is more deadwood to get rid of come 2008.

[Bill Bored]

17. There are worse cases than this!

In Ohio 2006, CD-15 for example, a 10% "recount" was conducted in a race with only a 1,055-vote (0.5%) margin. I don't know why, but the losing candidate, Democrat Kilroy, conceded with 90% of the votes left uncounted by human hands and eyes.

You don't have to be a rabid HCPB proponent to know that this is wrong, based purely on the math if nothing else.

This is where this movement should come together, Land Shark, but it's NOT.

What can you and your compatriots do to facilitate that?

[Land Shark]

18. It does open people's eyes to realize that, opscan or DRE, no human eyes have counted

any of the ballots, ever, except maybe some provisionals (if they ever get counted). WIth e-voting that's the typical status: No human being has personal knowledge or the slightest idea based on PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE what the result of the election is.

So Bill Bored you are right as you express that above. Plus a 10% recount assumes the remaining 90% is random which it may well NOT be (like when provisionals as a class or emergency ballots as a class are heavily democratic)

[Bill Bored]

19. Actually, I don't think anything should be assumed about the other 90%.

A race that close requires a full hand count. And I guess we agree about that.

But you didn't answer my question Jaws, which is:

Is there anything that rabid HCPBers and others may be able to agree on?

The reason I ask is that when legislation is introduced, rather than simply saying it sucks, it might be better to come up with a constructive alternative. At this point, I see none.

Kucinich's bill may be a nice idea, but it's probably Unconstitutional for Congress to tell the States how to run their Presidential Elections. Also, it does nothing to address the federal elections that are most vulnerable to tampering, which are US House races. And those in fact ARE Constitutionally under the authority of Congress.

So, one alternative would be to required HCPB for all US House races.

Got any more?

[kster]

20. I tell my kid that Hand Counted Paper Ballots is the ONLY way to go

in order to get the most acurate vote count, What do you tell your Kids?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

21. considering the field for Dem Pres Candidates

I sure hate to see another GOP dominated congress.

AGH.

Not very confident about Dem Presidential candidates.

The GOP voters may get over their Foley trauma and
turnout to vote in 08, so we better be careful.

[kster]

22. You can go back and forth with these people all day long

but COMMON SENSE says, that if someone is trying to PREVENT you from Hand Counting All The Paper Ballots, THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE or else why would they?

I say, let them AUDIT till their hands fall off, but I want to be able to Hand Count ALL the Godamn ballots, but for SOME REASON they have a problem with me Counting All the godamn ballots. WHY? I do not know.

I don't have a problem with them Auditing the machines until the cows come home, so why should they have a problem with me counting All the Godamn Ballots, if thats what I want to do?

[Bill Bored]

23. Why don't you ask them?

And let us know the answer.

Meanwhile I was asking Land Shark for an opinion about what we all could agree on and what we will do to make it happen, esp. once there are bills in Congress that can be proven to be inadequate. Those are the realities.

[EFerrari]

24. It's a terribly disappointing moment when you see someone aware of wrongdoing

who is completely willing to overlook it for their own agenda.