Bluejersey dot net.....My review of Holts new & improved HR550, I mean HR 811

[FogerRox]

I emailed his legal council/Chief of Staff Michelle Mulder, and sent her this article.



http://www.bluejersey.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=3976

[John Q. Citizen]

1. The link doesn't work . n/t

[Ellipsis]

2. kick

[FogerRox]

3. Worked for me, twice.

On edit... I think I fixed it, does it link now?

[Ellipsis]

4. just popped up now

[FogerRox]

5. Sorry my bad, I had it saved as a draft, forgot I had to "publish it"

[Ellipsis]

6. Would you mind flushing out what you mean by no paper trails for Opscans?

Do you mean a summary ?

[FogerRox]

7. VVPB for DRE's but no VVPB for opscans

On edit, sorry. A Voter Verfied paper ballot.

[Ellipsis]

8. AH.

I can understand the logic in that, more so from the negative ... if you could compromise the Opscan you could compromise the output device as well.

[bleever]

9. This looks like a really well put-together site.

Is this your project? One of the best state-focused ER sites I've seen.

:thumbsup:

[FogerRox]

15. Not my site, no. But perhaps the best NJ based Left leaning blog

on the net. The D-KOS of NJ , if you will.

[autorank]

10. Very good article.

You touch the key points. That will be useful for Democrats.

Here's an idea for you:

The overall struggle for voting rights in this country is between those who wish to expand and those who wish to contract the franchise.

How does the Holt bill impact the franchies?

Will we have a new crisis? The massive disenfranchisement of voters already registered? The obscure technophilia tha tconstitutes this bill is a barrier to public scrutiny. Therefore it will be almost impossible for anyone but the "experts" to understand and comment upon what's really going on.

Now we're really contracting the franchise - taking away any confidence that your vote was actually counted form all those registered and voting.

Nice work!

[FogerRox]

14. I like this frame, I may borrow it.

The overall struggle for voting rights in this country is between those who wish to expand and those who wish to contract the franchise.

[autorank]

20. Borrow away - here's where I got it.

Democratic Contraction? Political Consequences of Felon Disenfranchisement in the United States.
http://sentencingproject.org/pdfs/UggenManza.pdf

Other goodies like that here: http://electionfraudnews.com/resources.htm

Your post on Holt got me thingking that the more obscure and distant they make the voting process, the easier it will be to create a reduction in those who currently vote, regardless of socio-economic status. I don't know if that's the intent but I bet it's the outcome.

[Cookie wookie]

11. not sure what you mean by "no paper trail for opscans"

since paper is used in opscans. Did you mean no handcount audits of opscan paper? I didn't see that in 811, but read it rather fast. If you have the quote on that right from the bill language, at your fingertips, will you post it here?

Sadly the positive summary list is pathetically short. As to the negative, I think the bill's language is so loose that I'm not sure what it intends to accomplish, except to give more control to the EAC and the states. 550 was stronger. Actually I've long been a supporter of 550, and was really geared up to support the new bill. Am very troubled by it. Did they put it together to make it seem like they were doing something and now they could get it passed, but they really didn't want to do anything? Did so many of the wrong people have their ear, like EAC and Brit Williams types that they tried to please everybody and ended up pleasing only those who would keep our elections opaque and even further out of the citizens hands to do anything about it? What happened? I'm not going to impune Holt's integrity, because I don't believe anything sinister or underhanded is going on with him. But those who had the power to craft the language, whoever they were, they are the ones I question.

[FogerRox]

13. That slipped by, thanks for pointing that out, heres the cite

SEC. 2. PROMOTING ACCURACY, INTEGRITY, AND SECURITY THROUGH VOTER-VERIFIED PERMANENT PAPER BALLOT.
(a)(1)(A)`(i) The voting system shall require the use of or produce an individual voter-verified paper ballot of the voter's vote that shall be created by or made available for inspection and verification by the voter before the voter's vote is cast and counted. For purposes of this clause, examples of such a ballot include a paper ballot marked by the voter for the purpose of being counted by hand or read by an optical scanner...

Thanks for pointing that out, I edited the Diary to correctly cite hr 811.

[livvy]

12. Nice site!

I've read the bill through quickly, and plan to look at it more closely over the weekend. First impression is...it needs some work before I could completely support it, also. Like others have said, at this point, baby steps are not enough. If we want a truly transparent system, one that people can have faith in to record their voices, then let's stop wasting money and time on half-baked systems that leave too much wiggle-room for doubt.

Step one:



Or for those that prefer a touch of wood accents:

Note: no actual trees were harvested to produce this product, but a helluva lot of oil was.

Step two:


Ahhhh....if only it were so simple.

[FogerRox]

16. Juan Melli will be pleased you think so.

Also Holt's HR 811 seems to have vague language concerning developing good handicapped access voting machines. But at 667 words, late at night, I was running out of steam....

I think I covered the basics.

[kster]

17. If only they could find a way to sort them ballots, I know

let the voters do it, automatically!

[yowzayowzayowza]

18. What kinda lame-o activism is this???

Wharz the boogey men? How can you expect to be successful without a rip-roaring conspiracy theory and a heapuv self-righteous apoplexy? Get with the program already!! If you wanna be noticed ya gotta smear some democrats as liars and, all the effective activists no, ya gotta use the "F" word.
:sarcasm:

"On the ground of intersecting highways, join hands with your allies." - Sun Tzu

[Febble]

19. Kick

[kster]

21. kick.nt

[Bill Bored]

22. iVotronic? What about GEMS, etc?

The Internet ban does NOT apply to ANY servers at all! This was a weakness in HR 550 too. But this time, Holt had plenty of opportunities to fix it and rumor has it, he refused. Why?

Baiman and Land Shark are also correct about the loophole that allows machine recounts, and in fact there is nothing in the bill to trigger a real hand recount of paper ballots except a discrepancy in the audit (which is inadequate for close races), or a State recount law.

In short, Holt screwed up big time on this bill. HR 550 was better in many respects. At least it made sense, had some consistency, and could be improved upon by the states. This thing is like HAVA II!

The best bet right now is to contact the co-sponsors and ask them to fix it. Here's a partial list:

Mr. HOLT (for himself), Mr. TOM DAVIS of Virginia, Mr. WEXLER, Mr. EMANUEL, Mr. PETRI, Mr. WOLF, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. LANGEVIN, Mr. COOPER, Mrs. JONES of Ohio, Mr. CLAY, Mr. SHAYS, Ms. KAPTUR, Mr. ENGLISH of Pennsylvania, Mr. HASTINGS of Florida, Mr. RAMSTAD, Mr. MEEK of Florida, Mr. ISSA, Mr. CUMMINGS, Mrs. BIGGERT, Ms. LEE, Mr. CASTLE, Ms. KILPATRICK, Mr. KUHL of New York, Ms. CORRINE BROWN of Florida, Mr. MACK, Mr. SCOTT of Virginia, Mr. ABERCROMBIE, Mr. ACKERMAN, Mr. ALLEN, Mr. BECERRA, Ms. BERKLEY, Mr. BERMAN, Mr. BERRY, Mr. BISHOP of Georgia, Mr. BLUMENAUER, Mr. BOREN, Mr. BOSWELL, Mr. BOUCHER, Mr. BOYD of Florida, Mr. BRADY of Pennsylvania, Mr. BRALEY of Iowa, Mr. BUTTERFIELD, Mrs. CAPPS, Mr. CARNAHAN, Mr. CHANDLER, Mr. COHEN, Mr. COSTA, Mr. COSTELLO, Mr. COURTNEY, Mr. CROWLEY, Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Mr. LINCOLN DAVIS of Tennessee, Mrs. DAVIS of California, Mr. DEFAZIO, Ms. DEGETTE, Mr. DELAHUNT, Ms. DELAURO, Mr. DICKS, Mr. DINGELL, Mr. DOGGETT, Mr. DOYLE, Mr. EDWARDS, Mr. ELLISON, Mr. ENGEL, Ms. ESHOO, Mr. ETHERIDGE, Mr. FATTAH, Mr. FILNER, Mr. FORTUÑO, Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts, Mrs. GILLIBRAND, Mr. GONZALEZ, Mr. GORDON, Mr. GENE GREEN of Texas, Mr. GRIJALVA, Mr. GUTIERREZ, Mr. HALL of New York, Ms. HARMAN, Ms. HERSETH, Mr. HIGGINS, Mr. HINCHEY, Ms. HIRONO, Mr. HODES, Mr. HOLDEN, Mr. HONDA, Ms. HOOLEY, Mr. INSLEE, Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas, Mr. JEFFERSON, Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. JOHNSON of Georgia, Mr. KAGEN, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. KILDEE, Mr. KIND, Mr. KLEIN of Florida, Mr. KUCINICH, Mr. LANTOS, Mr. LARSEN of Washington, Mr. LOEBSACK, Mrs. LOWEY, Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York, Ms. MCCOLLUM of Minnesota, Mr. MCINTYRE, Mr. MCNULTY, Mrs. MALONEY of New York, Mr. MARSHALL, Mr. MATHESON, Ms. MATSUI, Mr. MELANCON, Mr. MICHAUD, Mr. MILLER of North Carolina, Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California, Mr. MITCHELL, Mr. MOLLOHAN, Mr. MOORE of Kansas, Mr. MORAN of Virginia, Mr. PATRICK MURPHY of Pennsylvania, Mr. NADLER, Mrs. NAPOLITANO, Ms. NORTON, Mr. OBERSTAR, Mr. OBEY, Mr. OLVER, Mr. ORTIZ, Mr. PALLONE, Mr. PASTOR, Mr. PAYNE, Mr. PETERSON of Minnesota, Mr. PRICE of North Carolina, Mr. REYES, Mr. ROTHMAN, Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD, Mr. RUPPERSBERGER, Mr. SALAZAR, Ms. LINDA T. SÁNCHEZ of California, Ms. LORETTA SANCHEZ of California, Ms. SCHAKOWSKY, Mr. SCHIFF, Ms. SCHWARTZ, Mr. SCOTT of Georgia, Mr. SERRANO, Mr. SHERMAN, Mr. SHULER, Ms. SLAUGHTER, Mr. SMITH of Washington, Ms. SOLIS, Mr. SPRATT, Mr. STARK, Mr. STUPAK, Ms. SUTTON, Mr. TANNER, Mrs. TAUSCHER, Mr. TAYLOR, Mr. TIERNEY, Mr. TOWNS, Mr. UDALL of Colorado, Mr. VAN HOLLEN, Mr. WALZ of Minnesota, Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Ms. WATERS, Ms. WATSON, Mr. WAXMAN, Mr. WEINER, Ms. WOOLSEY, Mr. WU, Mr. WYNN, and Mr. ALTMIRE.

How many of them do you think actually read the fucking bill?

I'm a former HR 550 supporter but with a Democratic Congress, we should be able to get this shit right. Stay tuned for more suggestions for improvement from those of us who refuse to drink this particular flavor of Kool Aid.

The other best bet is to support a better bill in the Senate, which is a possibility from Dianne Feinstein if whoever screwed up this bill will let us fix the Senate version.

[FogerRox]

23. The internet ban is on "voting devices".

After spending more time reading it looks like HOlt says to Transmit tabulator results to the state level. What is interesting is the section that tell local jurisdictions they MUST verify their numbers with what becomes published at the state level.

Sort of like saying - we are letting the tabulators go, but checking them-

[Bill Bored]

25. Tabulators? I don't give a flying shit about tabulators....

...it's the Election Management Server I'm worried about.

I.e., where the election is defined!

See: http://www.votersunite.org/info/ballotprogramming.pdf
And: http://www.votersunite.org/info/messupsbyvendor.asp

(Which just so happens to be the same fricking machines as the Tabulator.)

And there is NO requirement in this bill to check central tabulators. That's another bill but it won't matter because if the ballot definition files are hacked BEFORE the election, all the precinct totals will be OFF at the precincts or with DREs, voters may not even be able to vote their ballot, like in FL CD 13.

Get it?

This is what Holt wants to allow on the Internet.
See post #24.

[FogerRox]

27. yup, I know...

All ES&S iVotronis are on the net, to the mainframe, right? That sort of fucks ES&S though.

[Wilms]

28. Are they? And do they need to be in order to operate? n/t

[FogerRox]

29. 1st day of early voting broward cnty FL in 2004

I was workig for KErry Edwards.....


They couldn't get the main frame up until 11am, so no voting.... I got interviewed by Anne Kornblut:BOston GLobe, NPR, and a local TV channel.

[Wilms]

30. Are you saying that for, at least, early voting an internet connection is used?

What for? Ballot Style/BDF? :scared:

[FogerRox]

31. Dunno, the individual DRE's could not connect to the county mainframe

= no voting in the county.

[Wilms]

32. Makes me wonder what other machines could be sidelined.

The bill is ambiguously worded as to an internet ban including the server side. But it's clear in banning it for the devices "on which votes are cast".

[Bill Bored]

35. What does that have to do with the Internet? nt

[Bill Bored]

34. What does that have to do with the Internet? nt

[Bill Bored]

33. I am not aware of that. Where did you get that from? nt

[FogerRox]

36. I was in FL Broward county, when it happened.

That was the explanation everyone was given.

[Bill Bored]

37. I doubt there is any reason to connect any voting system to the Internet though.

You may be conflating a plain old dial-up connection with an ISP connection. How could you tell the difference without knowing exactly what the machine is doing and how? Even having an IP address doesn't mean it's on the Internet you know.

Be very careful with this because Holt is fighting tooth and nail to allow voting systems to connect the Internet for no good reason.

I have found no computer scientists who support this -- just Holt.

Furthermore, even the Holt bill, as written, would NOT allow the iVotronic to connect to the Internet because it's a device in the voting system on which votes are cast and Holt prohibits Internet connections to those things (but unfortunately ONLY those things).

[FogerRox]

38. No WiFi, but modems are cool. Arg.

[Wilms]

24. Olde Fashioned Legal Loopholes Allow Rigging of Hi-Tech Elections

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x466243

[Febble]

26. Just kicking the good stuff

up to the top.