What would it take to get a NH recount? Could Kucinich request

[truckin]

one? If he can let's petition him to do it and we can end all the talk about how accurate the scanners were.

[kansasblue]

1. compare hand count (25%) to Diebold (75%)

Brad at Bradblog.com has the suggestion that someone compare the 25% of hand counted areas to the 75% Diebold area.

That info is available at the NH results website.

[kansasblue]

2. ... someone did just that!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4009174

[truckin]

4. Obama won the towns that were handcounted, Hillary won the towns

that used scanners.

What I'm suggesting is that Kucinich request a recount of the ballots, including the ballots counted by the scanners, to verify the accuracy of the machines. If the handcounts match the machine counts, we can congratulate Hillary. If they don't someone will need to explain the differences.

There are no audits in NH and the only way to get a recount is, I believe, if a candidate requests one. I'm not sure if this option is available to all the candidates (it was in Ohio in 2004) but if it is I believe that Kucinich would be our best hope of getting a recount. Gravel could be another possibility.

[OnTheOtherHand]

13. any candidate who got a vote, apparently

See here (hey, that's where Google led me -- you can check it).

What I don't know yet is whether a candidate can request a recount of just some towns -- as Nader did in 2004, if I remember correctly. It would be pretty expensive as an all-or-nothing proposition.

[truckin]

14. Thanks, OTOH. A representative sample would be fine but as

you say, I'm not sure that's an option.

[mod mom]

29. You also have to factor in where ballots are hand counted vs where op-scanned.

There may be a difference in values for say rural v urban, or other factors that could see differences.

[Uben]

3. I'm a Clinton supporter

...and if they want to put up the money for a recount, I'm all for it! I have no doubt the results are authentic, but I think any recount is good.

[truckin]

5. Exactly. If the recount verifies the accuracy of the machines we

can congratulate Hillary and put an end to any speculation. If the hand counts are different from the machine counts, then someone will need to explain the differences.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Very well said - spoken as a true Democrat. n/t

[mirrera]

24. You are awesome! I believe winners are the ones to re-count...

What nobility that would show. Then we could REALLY congratulate her. I am so sick of it being republicans I doubt. I have always said I would feel the same way if it was a Democrat and i do. If it was John Edwards who pulled a "miraculous turn around", i would probably spend 5 minutes being happy, but if the polls were off and the hand counted areas were drastically different I would urge him to re- count. End the suspicion. There are SO many of us (especially in the election forum) who have been watching the machine situation since 2000. We are Hyper alert and just asking the rest of our Democratic brethren to at least be open minded to the possibility that cheating goes on with these machines. We are not idiots. We come from all walks of life, are all ages, and we are on the same side.

[Bitwit1234]

6. What a bunch of crap while we are at it lets make Iowa personally

vouch for all those so called students who registered to vote saying they went to school in Iowa, lets make every person in every one of those living rooms go before a judge and swear they took an accurate count. Gimme a damn break.

People complained that students were allowed to vote and maybe they were illegal, but did the bitch and gripe like this. It's just sour grapes that's all take the defeat and shut the hell up. AFter we said from Iowa there were 49 more states, the doodle boppers can root for their candidate in the other 48.

[truckin]

7. You obviously don't believe that we should check secret vote

counting machines. The Iowa caucus may have it's problems but at least it is transparent.

[Wilms]

12. You're not from around here. Are ya? n/t

[Kurovski]

18. I see you chewed through your restraints again, Bitty.

Welcome to the Election Reform Forum. And aren't you a breath of...fresh air.

[NobleCynic]

21. Pay attention

To cheat in the manner you describe, in order to have an impact you would need collusion among thousands, nay, tens of thousands of college students. To cheat like what may have possibly happened in New Hampshire and have an impact, you would need one person. THAT is the difference.

Edited for grammar.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Voter fraud is a minor concern. Election fraud is an order of magnitude more serious. n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

8. It would take a lot of money and and even more...

stupidity.

What would it accomplish? Even if there were some stupendous, and highly unlikely, upset where Obama won by a few thousand votes, what effect is that supposed to have on the other 48 states?

[truckin]

9. Maybe we would start to verify the voting machines and make

sure they count our votes accurately?

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Who's "we"? And what machines are "we" going to verify?

[truckin]

11. Any state or municipality that uses machines to count votes; which

is just about all of them. And we can check optical scanners by handcounting the paper ballots on a sample basis and comparing those results to the machine counts. This is how 81% of the votes were tabulated in NH. The other 19% were hand counted.

Unfortunately, this option is not available on paperless DREs, or touchscreen machines, and more than 30 million people vote on these abominations.

[Melissa G]

16. self delete

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. This election isn't the point. ElectionS are the point.

Looking carefully into this election has two major benefits:
1) it isn't a partisan (as in party politics) issue. For all our belief that we're better than Republicans with regard to election integrity, if we refuse to investigate because our gal won, then we're not.
2) the result was an outlier - is Hillary really twice as popular in New Hampshire than Iowa? This election is the best opportunity to show Diebold/ESS etc. that we're watching.

[truckin]

15. Here is an email that I sent to Kucinich:

Dear Congressman Kucinich,
You are the only candidate I have sent money to because you are not afraid to speak the truth. Because of this, I ask you to request a recount of the New Hampshire primary. Clinton and Obama’s results were wildly different than the final polls taken. In addition there were some strange numbers between towns where the ballots were hand counted and towns where the ballots were counted by scanners (see below). You are probably aware of these numbers but it is critical that you request a recount. If the hand counts agree with the machines we can congratulate Hillary and if they do not we can find out why.

This could be the most important thing you can do to reclaim our democracy and I thank you for your consideration.

[riqster]

17. Ask Edwards, too

He's come out for paper ballots IIRC. If we have two candidates, it might help.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. He'd have to pay for it. n/t

[kster]

25. I'm with ya truckin

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2637266&mesg_id=2637266

K&R

[Melissa G]

26. See this thread re recount chain of custody

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x489048

[eridani]

27. ALL elections need to be audited

If that was SOP, we wouldn't be dealing with any of this bullshit.

[truckin]

28. Exactly. nt.