Anyone have a minute to respond to a Salon article discounting the WVWV problem?

[EFerrari]

The article is here:


Friday, May 2, 2008 16:46 EDT
Voter suppression in North Carolina?

Did a pro-Hillary Clinton nonprofit group make voter suppression robo-calls to keep Barack Obama's voters from going to the polls in North Carolina on Tuesday? That's the charge from part of the liberal blogosphere this week, but it's a charge based on no solid evidence of wrongdoing. While the calls were misleading and probably against the law, a close look at the facts leads to the conclusion that the group responsible had no malicious intent, but is just another well-intentioned but bungling nonprofit.

The North Carolina Attorney General's Office has asked the group, Women's Voices. Women's Vote, to cease and desist from making the calls, and WVWV agreed to do so. The group's leader, Page Gardner, who has donated to Clinton in the past, has apologized. Board members -- including one Obama supporter who's also an elected delegate for the senator -- have said the calls were a mistake, and that the group wasn't trying to suppress African-American voter turnout.

Last Thursday and Friday, North Carolinians received the following message:

Hello. This is Lamont Williams. In the next few days, you will receive a voter-registration packet in the mail. All you need to do is fill it out, sign it, date and return your application. Then you will be able to vote and make your voice heard. Please return the voter-registration form when it arrives. Thank you.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/05/02/robocalls/index.html

Can you take a few minute to write a response?

This is mine and I'm sure most of you can do better, lol:


The argument of this article is that because the primary wasn't targeted, no vote suppression happened.

That is ironic, similar to the time CBS called Jeb Bush's office to verify that vote caging had happened in 2000 Florida -- and then didn't report the story because his office said it didn't happen.

If I tell you my interest is to register new voters, and instead I create chaos before a vote, and not once but over and over, I hope you question my expressed aim.

Election fraud usually has a front to legitimize the project. Vote caging efforts usually front themselves as "legit" voter fraud prevention projects, for example.

The voters targeted by these calls and mailings are the same voters on whose backs our federal elections have been stolen for years and in precisely this way. Discount this group of incidents, because North Carlina is only one of the venues this group disrupted, at your peril.

The same database will be used to suppress these very votes in November. Do you really want to give these serial offenders the benefit of a doubt? If so, you are playing fast and loose with someone else's vote.

[leftofcool]

1. There was an article this morning in the news on this

appears to have been a few idiots from this group but does not appear to have been anyone directly connected to either Obama or Clinton Campaigns although this group has supporters in both camps. It is still being investigated by NC and I don't think any packets were actually mailed out. I can't remember where I saw the article, there have been so many.

[msmcghee]

2. Thread running already . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5796816

Jump in, the flames are fine!

[EFerrari]

3. This is an action thread, but, thanks. n/t

[Donkeykick]

4. In that Salon article,

I agree with Shaun Dakin.

[EFerrari]

5. There are too many seasoned insiders on the board and in

management to believe the moran argument.

And, NC isn't the first place they "booboo'd". It's just the most recent. :shrug:

[Donkeykick]

6. sfexpat2000:

I actually cringe when I think about donating my time to my local DHQ this Fall. There are so many overburdened people in charge of different candidates trying to win a seat, that the whole thing is quite perplexing. I have went home so many times with a headache after a day of phone banking, going door to door handing out literature, that I can't count them--especially in 2004!

You can only imagine what it is like to actually be in charge of this sort of thing. Think about it.

[EFerrari]

7. I do hear you and thank you for your work on our behalf.

My whole deal is not against Clinton -- at all.

Your good work will lose something if we don't handle vote suppression, that's all. :)

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. UPDATE: N.C. NAACP files formal vote-suppression complaint against Women's Voices, alerts U.S. DOJ

and thanks sfexpat, we need all the help we can get.

Thank you soooo much!!!!

We dont take shit on our voting rights - noey noey noe!!!

Its in Late Breaking news, please kick kick kick

WillYourVoteB...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3295587

You said it needed to go further, now it has.

The NAACP in North Carolina is very effective.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

16. "Lamont's" calls tell people that are registered that they are not

According to the NC NAACP complaint:

Lamont's calls tell people that are registered that they are not and that the only way they can vote is to wait a few days, get a form in the mail, fill it out and mail it back in. As one commentator said, "Whether the result of deliberate design or massive negligence on the part of WVWV and/or its vendors in terms of the timing of the calls and the determination of who would be called, the end result is something which rightly raised suspicions about the intent of this program."

Does WVWV really want to help voters register to vote?

"The robo-calls in N.C. were part of a massive set of calls and mailings in 24 states in late April 2008 that included Kentucky, West Virginia, North Carolina, and Oregon--all states where the voter registration deadline has passed and the primary is approaching. Two months earlier, on 6 and 7 February during other primary campaigns, Lamont, or someone acting for WVWV, made millions of calls in 22 states, including Virginia. At that time, the registration deadline had passed in Virginia and the primary was days away. The resulting chaos led to an investigation by the State Police and more promises from WVWV to change its deceptive practices."

For more see
N.C. NAACP files formal vote-suppression complaint against Women's Voices, alerts U.S. DOJ of concerns Saturday, May 03, 2008

NC allows same day registration during early voting, but the anonymous robo calls didn't mention that.
Regardless of what state you live in, you can report information about the origin of the calls at 1-866-OUR VOTE (1-866-687-8683)

[Senator]

9. Sorry, But I'm Sticking With The Dems On This

The ones actually working to register voters.

Frankly, I don't see how offering someone an opportunity to register suppresses anything.

As for "the timing issue" -- I would think it might actually improve one's results if an opportunity is offered when the fact that someone is not registered happens to be on their mind -- like near elections, no? I would also note that this group has been accused of having sinister motives by making their contacts before, during, and after certain "critical dates."

And if they do in fact target particular demographics with specific characters/actors/callers in an attempt to put them at ease, then I'd judge that be somewhat tacky -- but likely rather effective -- modern marketing techniques. Nothing more.

I realize that the cacophony of Hillabamania easily drowns out this small objection. But I'm just hoping that the ER forum might stay free of this clearly GD/P-worthy kerfluffle.

--

[EFerrari]

10. This has nothing to do with the primary, or, for me it doesn't.

And their lame excuses for their serial offenses doesn't pass the smell test.

[Wilms]

11. I've been an active supporter of leaving the primary "kerfuffle" in GD:P.

This issue, however, easily qualifies as an election integrity issue to be concerned about.

If the reports are remotely true, and it seems that they are, those behind it are engaging in election fraud.

[mod mom]

12. Some of us feel that not only the integrity of the vote BUT EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE VOTER

is key. When calls target minorities with misinformation DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHAT PARTY MEMBERS ARE GUILTY OF ENGAGING IN VOTER SUPPRESSION?

Principles over party!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

13. telling black voters they aren't registered and have to fill out a new form is disenfranchising them

especially since the callse were made on 4/24 and 4/25 right in the middle of
our early voting.

Early voting in NC: 4/17 through 5/3

The calls failed to tell voters that IF they needed to register, they could
do so at early voting sites.

The calls told voters they WERE NOT REGISTERED, and gave incorrect information
on how to register.

[EFerrari]

17. Have you called the Judiciary Committee offices yet?

I did last week and sent them a list of links. And I told them I had no faith in the remains of the Justice Department unit that deals with the Voting Rights Act, etc.

Can't hurt.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. I called Conyer's office

and the staffer said Conyers was following this closely.

was a bit brisk with me, sounded super busy.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

14. *Warning: Deceptive Robo Calls Made to Voters in NC, Kentucky, Oregon and WVA

*Warning: Deceptive Robo Calls Made to Voters in NC, Kentucky, Oregon and WVA
182,236 calls in North Carolina, millions in over 20 states.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5822206&mesg_id=5822206

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

15. Also see: WVWV robocalls: Anatomy of a cover up

by jakester Sun May 04, 2008
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/4/195617/7630/473/509054

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

19. May 5: yet MORE illegal robo calls, a new one this time

More illegal robocalls in Durham? Ryan Teaguebeck Raleigh News and Observer on May 5, 2008 - 11:14am.

A Durham voter got another odd robocall about voting.

Christina Headrick, a former reporter for the N&O, says she received a misleading call Sunday from a "woman with a professional sounding voice" about mail-in voting.

Here is what the woman said:

"Have you ever wondered how you can vote by mail? From the convenience of your own home? Your vote has never been more important than it is in this critical election year. And this is a great way to ensure your voice is heard. If you would like to vote by mail, please press 1. If not, hang up."

Absentee ballots must have been requested before last Tuesday and returned in the mail by 5 p.m. today. In short, there is no way that it would be helpful for anyone to receive information about mail-in voting yesterday.

She tried to look for a caller ID using *69, but the number was either out of the area or from a restricted caller. It is against state law for robocallers to not identify themselves.

She has notified elections watchdog Democracy North Carolina, which is asking Attorney General Roy Cooper and the State Board of Elections to look into the calls.

http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/more_illegal_robocalls_in_durham

[EFerrari]

20. I'm sure this is just another innocent effen' mistake, too.

:grr:

[diva77]

21. would be interesting to check phone logs of people who received calls in

error to determine whether anyone tried to contact anyone regarding the confusing calls before all the nearly 180K+ calls had been made...just a thought

In trying to come up with a nonpartisan approach to confronting this problem, I suggest using The NIST White Paper which recommends an error rate of no greater than 1 in 500,000 for voting machines to record votes properly on VVPAT. Therefore, if calls are to be made to voters regarding information for registration, errors in disseminating information which may cause a voter to not have his/her vote count should not exceed 1 in 500,000 calls.:grr:

The offending robocaller should be charged with violating voters' rights.


on edit: info. for NIST from http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2089&Itemid=26

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

22. we don't know yet who they called, and robo calls were anonymous

so the people receiving them didn't know what organization was behind the calls
or where to get more information about the call.

182.236 calls made on April 24 & 25

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

23. for clarity: 182,236 calls made in NC in 2 days - Apr 24 & 25

in case some people prefer to just scan the thread and not read it.