I feel very alone. I do a Democratic TV show. Our guest today

[saracat]

was a political strategist who works for both parties.Actually he is a Dem who works for more Repugs. I don't understand or like it either. The point is we had a panel discussion and I presented the point of view that Kerry couldn't have gotten the vote count 55 million without a lot of previously inactive voters and the unification of Deaniacs, Clarkies, Edwards fans and yes, former Naderites. I was mocked for even suggesting such a thing! I also said that many people were upset that Kerry concede apparently early, before the votes were counted.( this is not necessarily my viewpoint, but one I have heard advanced) Many have said they thought they had voted for a fighter and didn't get one.Some have compared him unfavorably to Gore.He held out 31 days and Kerry (they say) lasted eight hours. I was told no one feels this way. There were not enough of those other candidates supporters to even talk about and anyone angry about the concession was not a mainstream Dem and marginal.Again too few to count. I explained that many people were upset about the money left over and in fact, some thought they should get their money back! I was told such people are childish and stupid,and again , a minority. I said that I didn't believe that they were that marginal, and that they might not be traditional Dems, but we owed whatever success we had partly to them and that their disappointment with our lack of fight, and perceived misuse of money, might have them questioning future support. I also said I had heard from people who would never vote for Kerry again. Once again, the position was, this is negligible and not worth dealing with. Basically, I was humiliated on the air and treated as if I was a delusional nut case. I would like to know how you guys feel. Not everyone will agree, but I feel my statements are at least somewhat representational of what we hear in the grassroots. People are saying these things are they not? I think the Party is very remiss not to listen to the grassroots and they are doing it again! I would have hoped they might correct these perceptions and find a way to unite the party under the big tent, but I guess they don't want to hear anything. I am so very disappointed.

[Union Thug]

1. I think i would burn my voter registration card and reregister...

as a Green or <insert party that better suits you>. Fuck 'em.

[saracat]

5. Thank you. That was almost my reaction,

but I do want to work within the party! However I don't see how it is possible to make any progress if we don't acknowledge the wide spectrum of people who supported us this season. Many were ABB or merely joining what they perceived as the most "electable" party. I am afraid we will lose all these people and find ourselves a minority party! And then no one will win.

[Eloriel]

29. Why do you think more and more African Americans are

registering Independent?

Sure, some of them are young, not very well educated about civil rights, and perhaps lean a little Republican (ignorantly, as so many rank and file Republicans do), but a good many are just f'ing fed up with being "marginalized," as this jerk exemplified so well.

These people (consultants) need to get out and TALK to "the people" -- not just for an hour or two but for days and days, weeks and weeks. Get the hell out of D.C., shirk off their myopia, arrogance and rank stupidity.

They're all ingrown toenails. A party like this deserves to die, IMO.

Anyway, you KNOW you're not alone. So sorry for the horrid experience. Wish I could wave a magic wand and make it disappear -- or better yet, jerks like that. :-)

:hug:

[truehawk]

46. i BELIEVE WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CALLED AND CANVASSED AND DONATED

The DLC types only won in 1992 and 96 because Perot was also on the ballot, and did the really heavy lifting talking about ISSUES.

In 2000 they blew the power of incumbentcy.

The DLC is a bunch of out of though beltway dillitants.

[kikiek]

2. I wouldn't take what a fence sitting political strategist says to heart.

I don't believe he speaks for the democratic party. He has to be very ignorant to not realize the number of people who are questioning this election. We want proof not only that every vote counted, but it was counted right.

[saracat]

8. But the others on the panel did, and they do speak for the "Party'.'

And we are a Democratic television talk show paid for by the Party. I am not concerned with the strategist so much as the other people who are "real" Dems and some are state officers.

[crispini]

13. You don't say what state you're in,

but even state party officers have been known to be clueless. We're facing this all over the country, old-guard party officers are getting overwhelmed with the influx of new people and new ideas. some are adaptable and excited about it, some are cantankerous and closeminded.

That just means you, and your friends in the party, need to unite and get rid of them. :)

Step 1: become a precinct chair. You will then be able to elect your county party chair. :D

[saracat]

15. Giggle. I am a District Chair!

I have high hopes for our soon to be elected county chair.She is also a devote/ of the "system" but I can work with her.As for state chair, I have a vote but only money buys that position and that position sets the tone of the Party.I see few changes there. But at least I can be a pain in the duff on the state level and maybe someone will listen.

[crispini]

19. LOL, go figure.

Well enjoy your hellraising and keep on keepin on. :)

[ccarter84]

51. right with ya

no worries, there are plenty of disillusioned dems' right now, we're licking our wounds, and feel a little betrayed by the (perceived or actual) acquiescence of the kerry camp so quickly after all their words of fighting. I have hope that its a front, and that they're doing something...but yea I could be just a hopeless romantic in that sense.
and yes people did link together behind kerry, because like it or not he was our only alternative to bush, and a vast improvement compared to aforementioned deceptive failure.
hang tight and don't let the rightwingnuts get ya down
-CC

[missouri dem]

54. I am a lifelong dem. and most of the party hacks do not get it.

They need wake up or be marginalized. Their philosophy is the status quo and don't want to rock the boat. They do not see that the boat is sinking. Do what you can within the party but be prepared to work with Move On or some of the other new groups. New wine needs new wine skins.

[crispini]

3. You said this guy was a "political strategist"

who works for both parties... how so is he an official representative of the DNC and/or Democratic Party?

And if he's not, what does it matter what he says? he's just another talking head with an opinion. Big deal. That and two bucks will get'cha a cuppa coffee.

[shelley806]

4. I agree with all of your points. I'm sure you didn't sound like a

"delusional nut case." I think that time will tell that Kerry won this election, so it will make all of this conversation moot anyway. Read the Kerry e-mail that's been posted tonight if you didn't receive it. It is encouraging.

[autorank]

11. Stand pat and let history catch up with you. It won't be long.

These types of people should not force us out of the Democratic Party. We need to help them stay in when folks like you take over. The learning curve is steep for people who've elected to drink the cool aide of conventional wisdom. You did fine by not throwing hot coffee in the guy's face.

Remember how obscure Dean was at the start and he caught the party on fire. Next time that happens, we don't let the weasels douse the fire.

Just imagine how upset you would have made them if you'd asked why in the hell Kerry and Co hired a four time loser in presidential races as his key campaign pro. Nice guy, very smart, and terrific on TV but he's lost a bunch of times.

We did well and just need to pick up about 5-6 more points. If people would stop bashing Red States (which is totally idiotic), we're there.

Thanks for standing up for views that I strongly support.

[shelley806]

6. P.S. You are not alone!!! eom

[Carolab]

7. Agree 100%

It's time to dump the DNC/DLC and the whole lot of them.

Time to start our own party addressing the needs of WE the people. We need to stop taking direction from either of the corporately controlled parties and start moving in the direction of our own survival.

True, we banded together and we were f'd over. So let's fight to stay unified together and work on our OWN solutions.

The election was stolen. It was planned that way. Nobody is fighting to prove it except for US. That much seems clear. So what does that say? They WANTED it this way and we're just supposed to "get over it".

I say, we get over THEM. Join our forces, work together.

[politicasista]

9. I fault the leadership of the DLC, and DNC as well.

Hopefully they will get a chairman with a brain.

[kedrys]

39. Canada has a Liberal Party that's doing rather well...

...and done well for years at that. Perhaps we should start our own.

[Marnieworld]

10. everything that you said was true

they just want to supress the truth for whatever reasons theuy have. The media is an echo chamber wher they just repeat "conventional wisdom" so no one has to make an effort to know facts and to think for themselves.

Saracat, with your 1000+ posts, you know more about what is really happening then the bunch of those talking heads. Have faith in yourself, pick yourself back up and speak truth to power once more. You are not alone. You have many many friends here. Count me as on because I thank you for saying what you did say. Hugs.

[saracat]

14. Thank you. You make me want to cry!

They continued this conversation over dinner and what is truly frightening ,is, I think they might believe it. I am also disappointed because I thought several of them were friends that I knew better.I had no idea that they were so dismissive of other people's views. They are very into the "system". I even heard the strategist give a speech about the "pendulum swinging to the right because it had previously been to the left and will end up in the middle" I hate that speech.As far as I can see, this election broke all those rules and they no longer apply.

[Union Thug]

16. This reminds me of the kind of elitism that righties exploit...

By discounting your views, they have shown what little value you or any of us that agree with you represent to them. If this is the new democratic party, I'm F*ing gone.

When the Democrats have made it clear that the working people no longer matter to them, the working people ought to tell them to shove it. Let them go be their little corporate/business friendly party for dieting Republicans. I want a party that fights for the working class, not one that hobnobs around with CEO's.

Again, a big, one fingered salute to these guys. I'm with YOU!

[saracat]

21. Exactly right.

I ran for state vice chair two years ago and I advocated that we banish elitism and return to the party of Roosevelt. I also said registering voters (which they are very enthusiatic about doing) is great, but it is more important to give them something to vote for and, to make sure they actually go to the polls, or mail in their vote. Otherwise it is pointless. I also feel that the volunteers should be the ones rewarded, not the fat cat contributors . I think you can do something for big donors, but you must express your appreciation for the volunteers. They didn't even buy anyone a coke on election nigh,t and people had come to this big hotel directly from working the polls. You couldn't even get a drink of water unless you paid $4 for it. That is wrong. Particularly as they had an entire floor with food and drink for the fat cats and their friends that was entirely free! And the Party had more money than they knew what to do with this year! BTW, they think I am cheap for complaining, but I don't care. Everyone should be respected, and many of our people don't have money. I couldn't afford the $8 drinks they were peddling and I am not ashamed to admit it! The ironic thing is, the more money you have , the less you pay! High rollers paid nothing, Moderately high rollers paid only $2 a drink ( I snuck into that room and a friend bought me a drink!) But the real workers get socked!

[Union Thug]

26. Geez, and with that 15 million dollars in the bank..

you'd think they could have sprung for some crackers and water... The wonders never cease.

[saracat]

27. Ohhh, the Kerry people didn't pay for anything.

The fancy party was paid for by our state party. How do you think the Campaign ended up with 17 million in the bank? Not by buying drinks for the volunteers!

[regnaD kciN]

30. Talk about clueless...

I even heard the strategist give a speech about the "pendulum swinging to the right because it had previously been to the left and will end up in the middle"

Excuse me, but in what decade and/or what parallel universe had "the pendulum swung to the left?" Seems to me it's been on the right (with occasional drifts to mid-center) for the past twenty-five years.

When you say that this guy is a Democrat who does more work for Republicans, that's all you needed to know. The guy's not just a DLCer, he a downright DINO. I'd take anything he says with, to use a new saying appropriate for this fundie age, a Lot's wife-sized pillar of salt.

;-)

[nashville_brook]

64. i totally agree, and add

that i think it's impossible to make any judgements about our leadership until we have a *real* examination of the vote. don't even let them get past this, rhetorically, you have no choice b/c if we label ourselves losers, and we really aren't -- then we are pissing in the wind.

we need to be playing outsider politics. we have to "call foul" before the first monday after the second wednesday of december. be there or be square.

[smartvoter]

12. You are correct.

The sentiment is not just out here, either. I hear these same sentiments -- especially the part about not fighting with all these documented problems -- everywhere, and I am in a decidedly red state. I even know Republicans -- one a policy analyst -- who have looked at the voting pattern and said they have no doubt Bush and Rove would have turned the country inside out before they conceded under these circumstances. Opinion of Kerry at this point is not particularly good with many people on both sides of this election in terms of his willingness to fight.

How many of us have heard this (more or less): "Where is the young Kerry who fought in Vietnam and then fought to end the war?"

[Chimpanzee]

41. These feelings are not owned by DU

There are many, many, non-internet non-conspiracy-nut regular Americans that feel something stinks with this election. FUCK the retreaters and towel-throwers!

[Only Me]

17. I have a concern with the people we use to 'represent' our party in the

main stream media. I'm not sure how that all works. Does a person call a particular person and ask them to come on the show or do they invite themselves? We have alot of strong party leaders..many we hardly ever see on any kind of regular basis. Instead, the people that are weak, or somewhat controversial or almost antagonist of their own party because of some issue or another, are usually what we see on many of the t.v.shows. I know this may sound way off to you, but sometimes I think that it could be "deliberate" of some in the media to portray the Democratic Party with 'less than idea representatives.' I think the media thrives on making us look bad. It has been proven hundreds of times over just within these last four years. The obvious 'turn a blind eye' attitude the media has taken to MANY of the questionables of this president and the administration says so much about the serious state of our news media. This topic for example..'Kerry didn't fight hard enough. Kerry didn't spend the money.' They spend valueable airtime breaking down the Democratic candidate or the Democratic party. But where were they during the last four years? Certainly not tearing the Republican party to bits. This administration has gotten by with media bans,s sanitizing the coverage of the war, a vice president with questionable interests in Halliburton, starting an unprovoked war, and the list goes on and on. They give us just enough to give the impression of impartiality.

News Anchors and Journalist have the power of being familiar to the public...and in away the public trusts their statements or personal comments and take them to be true. When the media gives the impression Kerry (or anyone else) was/is anything.. it sticks in the publics minds and an opinion takes root.

I live in the south. The county I live in went blue during the elections, every county around me went red. I have been very active and I can tell you most Kerry supports in my county deeply respect the man. Even alot of the Repugs here liked him..most said they voted for Shrub (Bush) because they didn't want to switch mid-stream during awar. Some said some religious reason...but really not as many as I had expected. The majority were because of mis-statements they heard from the media or the over-coverage of negativity toward Kerry.ALOT of misinformation..they really fell for the 'take the bibles away' thing Cheney was spouting. The Republican party played on the fact that Kerry was not as familiar a face to the American people. They have a saying here.."I'd rather be bit by a snake I know, than one I don't." Kerry just didn't have time to convey a sense of security and familiarity to these people. Being Familiar is
really important to Southernerns. If they feel like they know you,
they might can trust you. I think to win the south you must educate, educate and be seen and heard alot.

Just some of my thoughts on things for what ever there worth.

[Leilani]

18. saracat, I think you were right!

I just watched Washington Week in Review, & they did a piece about Clinton's Library opening.

The reporter said all the Dems were there, & it turned into a convention of questioning what had gone wrong with the election, but the consensus was that Kerry was a bad candidate, & it was a bad campaign.

So, I think anyone who really knows what's going on, knows there were lots of problems, & lots of disappointments.

I also see people turning into Kerrybots...he's wonderful, no problems, it's everyone else's fault, let's not think about or examine problems. We wouldn't want to change things, would we?
It's a defensive stance.

[saracat]

25. LOL! I used to call the more incompetent DCC Kerry Kids

the Kerrybots! I don't think The fault lies as much in Kerry as what the DNC and The DLC and the media did to him. I think Kerry had all the equipment necessary to be a great candidate and the media gave us a false picture. I remember the Newsweek article about how both Edwards and Kerry were restrained from letting loose on the SBVFT. Their instinct was right. I think Schrum was a disaster. I could even believe he was a plant. But finally it wouldn't matter if Kerry were Jesus if the votes aren't going to be counted or the machines are preset for Bush. Even if Kerry had won(and we may never know!) the media wouldn't tell you. We have a lot of work to do if we are to reclaim this nation.

[KoKo]

37. Agree, with what you said on your show and most of the folks on this

thread. I am a Precinct Captain and the only people who worked their butts off and made a difference where I am are former Dean, Kucinich and even a few former Nader supporters. We were the driving force behind peace marches, behind updating the outdated voter records and local party machinery.

And, yet it's been a fight with the party insiders all the way. And, I've heard most of what you said...plus that we have to stay to the middle and not be disruptive, not question the voting or the way the Board of Elections handled the Early Vote with long lines that turned away many Democrats. And, yet we have a Democratic Governor...but the machinery that runs the Dem party is to some of us "Repug Lite."

I feel the party insiders have used us, yet don't take us seriously and we had to fight to hard for even the small changes we were able to make.
We have a Progressive Wing of the party forming. Some of the people involved though appear to be as unwilling to support innovation as the mainstream Dems but there's really no alternative for us "Activists" except to leave the party altogether.

I'm supposed to attend fundraisers for the party in the Spring. I do not want to give a penny to the Democratic Party. They had four years to get their act together and we end up with lost seats in the House and Senate, another stolen election, media that's in such lock down that I've never seen anything like it (and I was around during Nixon) and we have Donna Brazille, Harry Reid, and Joe Biden to look forward to as our spokespersons. I really don't understand it and working within the party I am dumbfounded as to how they think we can survive acting like losers with no spine.

I can only think that it's the lobbyists and big donors who have caused this...and we were supposed to be the grunts who did all the work for them. :shrug: There's no way I would support Kerry in 2008. I have hope that this "Strategy" that's he's behind the scenes working to get the vote recounted is true. But, we heard to often that Daschle had a strategy, and his "strategy" turned out to be losing seats in the Mid-terms,losing seats in this election and in fact losing his own Senate seat in the end. What kind of Campaign Ops would call that a "success" and point that as the way the party should go in the future?

Thank you for trying on your show to get the points accross. If they hear it enough maybe it will sink in eventually that they have a BIG problem. It's going to take alot of work, and many will probably go third party or give up in disgust if some changes aren't made soon at the top level.

[Cha]

62. They said that about Gore..too!

That he was a "bad candidate"...it's all bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

We had two very good, brilliant men and they were cheated out of their rightful place in history by the anti-Christ.

[jhgatiss]

20. How does one get a TV show?

I want one! (Or at the very least a radio show?) I think more people need to log in here and take the pulse of the community. I had a friend today say that he wanted his money back from Kerry and that he was pissed off that Kerry didn't use the money here in Ohio to win. I countered that there was probably little left to do with it at that point because I heard that TV time had been purchased out. And he said we needed more people to GOTV... I said that what we really need is organization not more manpower and by that time it was too late to impose that onto the system. And me? I always talk about VOTER FRAUD! :)

[saracat]

23. Your local cable station can help you produce one.

We use cable access but there are many ways to do such a thing. You can even buy radio time if you are interested. Radio ,oddly is much more expensive than cable TV. If you can line up sponsors, you can use them to prebuy your time and voila! You are on the radio. You must get ratings though and sell enough of the sponsors product to stay on the air. The market is similar both nationally and locally. And TV time could have been purchased. I was stunned that they took the ads off the air in my state .I thought it was due to lack of money. I also special ordered and constructed local yard signs because we didn't have any. A boatload came in 2 days before the election.And I thought we didn't have money to afford them. My last donation won't be recorded anywhere because I purchased signs at the printer with it thinking we didn't have enough money! Sigh.( one of the reasons I couldn't afford the $8 drink!LOL!)

P.S. I do have a media and entertainment background, so that helps a bit! If you don't ask lots of questions and get people to help! And they will!

[HeeBGBz]

31. Ooh, cable access channel. Make your own news report.

eom

[countmyvote4real]

22. You were not humiliated. Your questions were deflected.

I wasn’t there to watch, but that’s my assessment from your posts in this thread.

The questions you raised have all been posted here. They’ve all had a fair share of rebuttal. I can’t say how either or any position translates into the real world, but you were smart to bring them up for the purpose of real discussion and debate.

It seems that you were most caught off guard by the panel members that were most threatened by this discussion. You said that the strategist works both sides of the aisle, so your questions were not as threatening to that person as it would be to the Dems on the DNC payroll.

What the hell is a Dem these days? We’re still all over the spectrum. The same as we’ve always been. But we have never been for the infusion of Church and State or any number of misguided policies that don’t reflect the spirit of our Constitution.

If you are humiliated for just asking, then I wonder if loyalty oaths are next. If that is going to be the outcome, then we’re both going to have to find another party.

Peace

[m berst]

24. you are courageous and an inspiration

It takes a tremendous amount of courage to stand fast for your perception of reality when others are dismissing it. I think your perceptions and observations are completely accurate. There is much more truth and power in what you are saying than there is in what they were saying. That makes you worth 100 of them, though they will tell you that "nobody thinks that way." Right. In other words you are a nobody? Somebody thinks that way; somebody pretty important to many of us - you.

Any help or support that you need, I wouldn't hesitate to reach out to the other members here who understand and are able to see the truth. You should not be isolated and alone ever, because there is a growing army of compatriots who are with you, and because you are truly doing the good work for all of us - the difficult, heart-breaking work of putting yourself on the line for what you believe.

I always look forward to your posts here, and you are being heard and you are making a difference in people's lives.

[illuminaughty]

28. Saracat, you are not alone. In fact your viewpoint is getting

more crowded by the minute. They (dems) are scared as they should be. I'm someone who talks to everybody and as I was printing off info for our "stolen elections" meeting, we got quite a discussion going at Office Max. Young, old, African-American and you can't imagine how glad these people were to talk, or to hear someone confirm their suspicions.

Very few are buying these results. And the Party should acknowlege this immediately or they are doomed. I don't know what agreement has been struck, but the silence or the "better luck next time" statement is just infuriating people. Maybe (I hope) the Dems don't know how to brace the country for the facts. It was a coup. No doubt. Or maybe they don't want to admit that they are controlled by the Republicans. I don't know. But people are very aware that there was no mandate and that this must be resolved or we will not participate in this so called democracy. They did not pick a bad candidate, groups worked their asses off, and people voted in record numbers...they just changed them.(the numbers)

You are not cheap for mentioning the money. People here who worked for organizations felt very taken advantage of in the end. I know people who lost business. I spent a great deal of money running off copies. I told them I did not have a cell phone and knew I would need one at the polls. No problem, was all I ever heard. In the end, I had to go out and purchase a cell phone the day before the election. This would be fine except for the fact that these leaders are in hiding and the ones that are speaking are either delusional or they are liars. This movement about the election is steam rolling even more than the movements before the election so they have been warned. Join us, or get out of our way.

[Slit Skirt]

32. that is too bad they treated you that way....

but hold your head high..unfortunately, I think your views are correct...people are angry, at least I am... and perhaps that is what is wrong with the dems....many times they didn't listen and respond during the campaign....and now here we go again..they do not want to address the real problems..kerry didn't fight like he said he would and we have massive fraud in the election process..on top of that there is this money left over and they won't fund a recount.

this is unfortunate.....they will lose all of us if they do not start listening.

[dewaldd]

33. Agree 100%. Will never donate to dems again. Will vote Green.

The Dem leaders have revealed themselves to have their tongues up the corporate ass, with no concern for the common person.

[onecitizen]

34. Hmmmm. it just goes to prove........

what I have felt for some time now: they don't know what the hell us mainstream, grassroots, ordinary, everyday Dems feel. Nor do they care. They are so "inside the Beltway" driven, they cannot think straight. They need to get off their duffs, get in a car, go see what WE think and feel for real.

[PATRICK]

36. In the 60's

(boy are you tired of hearing that) we had a name for the disease called "institutionalism" where myopia rules and expects that everything outside hums along to their tune. The media does reinforce really blah and stupid thinking that now has this muddled herd ready to shrug off social security because the bosses in charge say so.

They HAVE infected large numbers with defeatism by reinforcing media claptrap which is 100% of the information diet of most Americans INCLUDING our ever approval seeking "leaders". No one ever read Marshall McLuhan about the media swaloing the brain. No one remembers the past. No one remembers yesterday's ideals. Not one of them knows what drives their volunteer army. Not one has a strategic brain that has not rotted into wormfood. Not one deserves a job leading real Dems in a campaign. If they think their great majority will come out for useless campaign fodder futility they will be making MORE excuses and more derision to protect their job. Naturally the ones on your panel already are going with the MONEY to the GOP. I only hope they take their lies and incompetence with them.

I would have kicked these fat losers out and got some real Democrats off the street.

[onecitizen]

58. I think "we" have an

opportunity of a lifetime here. I have never seen the people so fired up about anything since VN. Now, a smart Dem strategist would jump on this (maybe Dean will)and mold it into a REAL movement. With what we did on the Sinclair issue, we should realize we DO have power as a group. The Repugs learned that a long time ago and we're just beginning to. But sadly, I do not think our "leaders" have realized it yet. :(

[bobbieinok]

60. repubs sidelined the old guys who 'didn't get it' Newt crew took over

[HEAVYHEART]

35. Keep on keeping on!!

You did great and stood your ground. You are not a "delusional nut case". THEY ARE! Continue to stand your ground and don't let this one incident discourage you from standing up for what you believe in, as there will probably be many other incidents you will experience as such. So many changes in this country were made by and implemented by people like you. People who's views were not necessarilly always accepted by the masses, not at first. So don't back down. I think you did great. I would've done and said exactly what you did on the show, because I agree with you and I believe in everything you said. I believe in you saracat.

So keep your chin up. You make me proud!!!! ((HUGS))

[DividedWeAre]

38. you should have gotten up and coldcocked the piece of crap

you should have gotten up and coldcocked the piece of crap just for being a piece of crap. pieces of crap traveling around in human bodies don't care what you think, they are trying to manipulate you and your audience. that is what they do.

first, if you care about your audience, don't have pieces of crap on your program. secondly, if one slips in, be prepared to handle them. fight back with the truth and if that doesn't work, turn their meanness back on them. EXPOSE THEM. if you don't know how to do that, then you are not going to get the truth out and you need to hand over the program to someone who can.

people cannot humilitate you if you are strong in your beliefs. seriously.

[saracat]

42. I don't book the guests and are not allowed a say in their selection.

but my producer and the co-host think he is wonderful and always devote a show to him at election time. I was glad to make the points I did. I did shut him up even if I was treated with withering contempt! When I said I was humiliated, it was not for my beleifs, but how I was treated by them and their conduct. They were contemptuous and dismissive, but I said what needed to be said anyway. Too bad they wouldn't meet me halfway!

[DividedWeAre]

59. less caustic reply

it depends on what you want to do. if you are looking to further discourse, then you are stuck because it will get worse. the best thing is to talk to your producer and booker and tell them that you don't want to be a punching bag for haters, shouters and loathers. you need to let your anger show a little. stand up for yourself, your show and your audience. they at least need to know how you feel about it.

if your goal is to further the democracy and/or the democratic party, you will have to adopt some of the haters tactics, but only with them. don't let them get away with anything.

and, either way, realize that by just trying to meet them in the middle, you come up short. your goal is for the discussion to end up half-way so that your audience can decide. that may mean that you go past half-way to even things out.

good luck, i wish i had a show to work with.

[BREMPRO]

40. i agree with your point of view... and reflects the opinions of other

dems, progressives and naderites i know. My sense is that there is a conspiracy among the establishment to marginalize opinions that don't meet the corporate line. Our voice is in the majority, yet the corporate/goverment/MSM establisment would have us believe we are in the minority. its really frustrating. I saw Brian Williams on the letterman show last night- he's apparently going to take over the reins from brokaw at NBC- he showed his corporate colors by ridiculing democratic positions and flashing the red state map AGAIN to push this conservative domination (by acreage, rather than voters.) we have a real battle ahead against the money and influence of these forses. DU is certainly biased, but more reflective in my opinion of the majority of people of this country- the ones that haven't been brainwashed or born again. Don't lose your voice- WE NEED YOU!

[John Q. Citizen]

43. saracat, the fact that Kerry in his e-mailed message even mentioned

honest and transparent elections tells me he thinks that someone out there feels it's a problem.

I know I do.

[saracat]

55. I got that from his message too. I get the impression that

Kerry is not too fond of the centrist movement either. If you listen to his choice of language, he is saying don't cave in to them.

[Junkdrawer]

44. The country has moved Right --- until you ask people what they think...

Poll after poll show people are just as liberal as ever. We're constantly told "you believe X" in the hope that, through repetition, we'll come to believe X.

[truehawk]

45. I think they are in DENIAL their ACTIVISTS ARE HERE

[Ducks In A Row]

47. Since I think that most Dems think the way you described, then

the panel was made up of the wannabe-rethug that call themselves Dems, and then screw the rest of us over.

It's the way things are done now, on the air only that sort get the pulpit, letting someone like you in merely for cannon fodder.

The solution is to get involved in the party structure

http://www.democracyforwashington.com/civicspace-0.5/?q=pcostructure

You start at the Precinct, then we go up from there.

That's what I'm doing now because there's no way I'm going to let these freepers-types control my party.

Actually, I don't think Oregon's not as bad as most states, but if I start now it will stay good.

[Generator]

48. They don't have a clue!

Mainstream media and mainstream Dems, ala the DLC seemed only too eager to piss all over Kerry the second he lost. (which is different than the anger many like you & I have felt)

I'm a "mainstream" Dem in many ways, not as Left leaning as many BUT the DLC sickens me because they always sell out.

I was angry at Kerry conceeding so soon. So was my husband. We both liked Kerry and thought he would make a great President. I think most wanted a fight.

Never vote for Kerry again? HELL you need to tell them that some mainstream types like me were so disgusted we are never going to vote for any Dem in a presidential race again because it doesn't matter-the votes aren't counted, and the votes of the miniorites and poor are certainly not counted if they even get a chance to vote. It outrages me because I believe my vote is sacred, and as a white women in Oregon-I have it SO easy. It's my protest, dammit. Count the votes.That's what a Democracy is.

I've voted Dem since 1984-how mainstream do you have to be?? A mother that pays taxes-and I'm ready to take to the streets. We are angry and I honestly think JOHN KERRY gets that-not the Dem leadership- from watching his video.

Also, WE have eyeballs. I don't trust anything the mainsteam media says anymore-and I certainly don't trust anything that comes out of the Bush administration. Why do they? They were so eager to have us start questioning our "values" and everything else. NOW that makes any "mainstream" Dem livid. There is nothing wrong with our values.

There is something wrong with those that are allowing our constitution to be changed, and ignored and shreded while loosing the seperation between church and state.

And heh-DLC stop pissing on Kerry-he's better than you.

[MoonRiver]

49. You speak my feelings exactly.

And frankly I am becoming increasingly turned off by the Democratic Party.

[mbee]

50. I've noticed the DLC Democrats have fallen for the line of crap about

moral values deciding the election. Could it be that the power brokers from both sides are guilty of fraud? There has to be an explanation because it is quite obvious to me that Bush did not win the election.

[bobbieinok]

61. and they get the 'moral values' stuff from EXIT POLLS that 'are inaccurate

?????????????????????

[sandnsea]

52. A Dem who works for Pubs?

And you're surprised at the response? Why?

[saracat]

56. No. I wasn't surprised at him. I was surprised at the other people

who agreed with him.

[sandnsea]

57. Ah, I misunderstood

I thought it was just you and the one guy. I'm not surprised. Most people just don't think the way DUers think, they really don't.

[Cadence]

53. I think you did the right thing

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer

There aren't a lot of people in the mainstream media or even so called mainstream member's of the party that have been strong enough to have a voice and really represent what the majority of democrats are feeling. That's been the problem all along. Look at how refreshing Howard Dean was and how he really kicked things into high gear for the democrats. Frankly I'm sick of all of the so called democrat pundits that we have right now and I wish they'd step aside to make way for some fresh and strong voices.

But until mainstream media stops celebrating the right wing view and marginalizing the left (which is reflected by their choice of pundits) we aren't going to see a shift in power because there is to much fear. It sounds like the people on your program were succumbing to the fear and it is easier to walk the middle then hold up one of the sides.

[ever_green]

63. grassroots=large number of people IMO

I'm sick of them considering us to be such a minority. Just because the media portrays it that way.