Chrisianity shits all over a truly unique island and ruins their culture

[Ian David]

Women, not men, choose spouses on island
By RUKMINI CALLIMACHI, Associated Press Writer Fri Feb 2, 2:10 PM ET

ORANGO ISLAND, Guinea-Bissau - He was 14 when the girl entered his grass-covered hut and placed a plate of steaming fish in front of him. Like all men on this African isle, Carvadju Jose Nananghe knew exactly what it meant. Refusing was not an option. His heart pounding, he lifted the aromatic dish, prepared with an ancient recipe, to his lips, agreeing in one bite to marry the girl.

<snip>

In this archipelago of 50 islands off the western rim of Africa, it's women, not men, who choose. They make their proposals public by offering their grooms-to-be a dish of distinctively prepared fish, marinated in red palm oil. Once they have asked, men are powerless to say no.

<snip>

"Now the world is upside down," complained 90-year-old Cesar Okrane, his eyes obscured by a cloud of cataracts. "Men are running after women, instead of waiting for them to come to them."

<snip>

Records are not readily available, but islanders agree that there are significantly more divorces now than in the years when men waited patiently for a proposal on a plate.

<snip>

There are matrilineal cultures in numerous pockets of the world, including in other parts of Africa, as well as in China's Yunnan province and in northeastern Thailand, says anthropologist Christine Henry, a researcher at France's National Center for Scientific Research.

<snip>

Although priestesses still control the island's relationship with the spirit world, their clout is waning, as Christian missionaries have established churches here.

<snip>

She says the Protestant church she attends has taught her that it is men, not women, who should make the first move and so she plans to wait for a man to approach her. To make her point, the teenager pops into her hut and returns holding a worn copy of the New Testament, its pages stuffed with post-it notes, letters and business cards.

More:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_re_af/guinea_bissau_ladies__choice

[LiberalVoice]

1. Personally I think any religion or culture that forces someone...

...to marry someone is pretty shitty.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. It is sad when a religion destroys a culture

The fact that there are more divorces than before shows that the old ways were better for these people. A religion should make things better for a person and society, not worse. Too bad the missionaries that are there aren't teaching the equality that one finds in so many Christian churches where women are ministers and bishops.

[msongs]

6. ...or that there are many bad marriages that do not break up. nt

[sam sarrha]

3. Abraham was obviously schizophrenic by todays standards, it only follows that the religion spawned

by his insanity would also be schizophrenic.. the same with Islam..The Prophet also would most likely to be schizophrenic by todays medical standards.. look at Dar fur.. the laws of stoning women, child slavery.. in the Koran slavery isnt dinied but there are a lot of laws about the treatment of slaves.. and just google:Islam and slavery..slavery is a REAL problem in north africa, Female genital mutilation, subjugation of women, but on the other hand all the gods of the linage of Abraham are merciful..

[spoony]

13. Judaism?

[sam sarrha]

18. all the cults of abraham

[struggle4progress]

30. Slavery's too common in Asia also: do you blame the Buddhists for that?

People can always find excuses for their own inhumane behavior: but of course such excuses are after-the-fact self-justifications and really don't explain why people choose to act unethically.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

4. Ok, what's in that red palm oil?

"I had no feelings for her," said Nananghe, now 65. "Then when I ate this meal, it was like lightning. I wanted only her."

They make their proposals public by offering their grooms-to-be a dish of distinctively prepared fish, marinated in red palm oil. Once they have asked, men are powerless to say no.

It seems like a very sweet way of asking someone to marry you, but you should be able to refuse the dish.

Heck, I asked my husband to marry me!

[Ian David]

5. Technically, they always CAN refuse, and can even divorce...

but it brings shame upon their family to refuse the marriage.

But in a population of 2,000 people, it's not like a stranger pops into your tent and demands you marry them.

It's much more subtle than that.

By the time the woman "chooses" her husband, there is already some kind of relationship there.

And this system has WORKED for them.

[okasha]

8. And apparently, if you read the whole piece,

it goes right on working for them. You've fairly seriously misrepresented the body of the article, which mainly "credits" contact with the mainland and the tourist industry for changing customs--and notes that those customs persist despite outside contacts. The islands' culture is in flux, but it hasn't been "shat on" by Christianity or the hospitality industry as far as one can see from the article.

[Ian David]

9. Point well taken. n/t

[Solo_in_MD]

7. A little disengenuous...that culture was doomed anyway

I know that is a negative thought, but when isolated cultures run into the real world, they tend not to survive for long. I doubt the church brought the capri pants and sequined sandals (yeech!) there, but modern clothes is also a source of conflict there. 2 generations and the old ways will be gone...

Real World: 1
Small Pocket: 0

[Ian David]

10. They will all be under water in about fifty years anyway. n/t

[parasim]

14. I, for one, hope that you are wrong

and that initiatives like this will help preserve "the old ways" of this indigenous culture and in turn help to safeguard the rich biodiversity still present in the region.

New Initiative Will Conserve Sacred Sites Rich in Biodiversity

-snip

The new project, backed by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and indigenous peoples' groups such as the Foundation created by Guatemalan Nobel Peace Prize laureate Rigoberta Menchu, has secured preliminary funding from a multi-billion dollar development fund, the Global Environment Facility.

Menchu said, “It may seem accidental, but is not accidental, that where indigenous peoples live is where the greatest biological diversity, the diversity of nature, exists too. The values on which indigenous peoples have built our complex systems are founded in the ethical, spiritual and sacred nature that links our peoples with the whole work of creation.”

“This is why we demand the formal recognition of our conservation efforts, of our protected territories, of our sacred places, of the ethical values that support our lifestyles," she said.

-snip

To the Bijagos community, certain areas are off limits or access is confined to those who have completed their ceremonial duties. In many of the sites certain activities are banned such as sexual relations, burials, the shedding of blood, and construction of permanent settlements.

“These traditional practices of the Bijagos that limit periodically the free access to certain areas and their natural resources effectively assists in the preservation of the sites for flora and fauna," said Oviedo. "An interesting overlapping is that the most valued sites for biodiversity also happen to be the most sacred ones."

-snip

http://ens-newswire.com/ens/mar2006/2006-03-19-01.asp

[Solo_in_MD]

16. Unfortunately I am not

- I grew up in Hawaii, and saw what happened there and all over the south pacific.
- I saw how fast the children of immigrants to the US have "gone American" and left the ways of their parents
- Given satellite and the Internet no place is safe from Hollywood and the MSM

2-3 generations and its gone by and large. The UN effort is quaint but will fail as a practical matter. The youth will go with Ipods etc. Though a few might follow or at least try a preserve the older ways, the percentage is so small that it a couple of generations, it ceases to matter.

I am not advocating this disolution, but clearly it is the most likely course.

[Igel]

17. In principle, every culture is 2 generations away from

being a memory.

If the young people want to preserve the culture, it will be preserved. If there are pressures against preservation, its survival depends on how strongly the people want to preserve it. If they want to preserve it the way their parents and grandparents had it, i.e., using that as the definition of "pure" and "authentic", they may have to want it very strongly. (If we want definitions of 'purity' and 'authenticity' that have greater time depth, then we're moving into la-la land.)

If the young people don't want to preserve it, it doesn't matter. The people on this island weren't *forced* to alter their marriage traditions; they chose to.

To have some advocates put up a barrier means either they don't trust their young people, that they think they know better than the young people. Elders frequently do this. They usually lose, or become oppressive--and when that happens, the kids often leave the farm for the big city.

Now, there are cases where a culture was simply destroyed by force and oppression or assimiliation--Islam and Christianity certainly score high in this, although Chinese and Russian communisms were no slouches, and we have to admit that ideologies and Abrahamic religions have nothing over on what happened in Europe and India *before* Xianity with the Indo-Europeans moving in, or with what happened to the Khoe-San in Africa when the Bantus got iron and a good source of starch.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. Reminds me of how christian missionaries corrupted the "native" civilization

of Hawaii in the 19th century and destroyed it in the process.

[Solo_in_MD]

12. They came to do good, and they did well

Though I will admit to be conflicted about it, Kam schools last I heard was being allowed to retain its racist admissions policy

[parasim]

15. Indeed...

It also reminds me of the indigenous people which I am a direct descendent of, the Samis of northern Scandinavia.

The christian missionaries came along and killed all of the noaides or shamen, and burned their sacred drums in the process. They then forced the people to move away from their matriarchal society to a patriarchal one while abandoning their own religion in favor of christianity.

[struggle4progress]

22. Exactly which historical event are you discussing?

[AnnieBW]

19. Sounds Like Heaven

I wanna move there and be an anti-missionary.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Mourn for people, not for lifestyles.

Bemoaning the "destruction of indigenous culture" is all very well, but it's no excuse for compelling people to continue to live in those ways if they choose not to.

The OP makes no mention of any coercion or compulsion being used on these people. If they choose to live one way rather than another then fair enough.

[moobu2]

21. Not surprised

Christianities prime directive is human cultural homogenization. In the past they used physical force, murder, rape, genocide etc…nowadays, the “do gooders” just use subtle manipulative tactics, fear and shame, and a few shiny trinkets.

[struggle4progress]

31. What nasty and bigoted stereotyping! There's no such "prime directive"

[struggle4progress]

23. Why is this an example of "Chrisianity shits all over .. island"?

What do you actually know about the history of the Bijagós Archipelago? Do you know when Christian missionaries first appeared there -- or anything about the islands during the European colonial period?

[Ian David]

24. See what Moobu said

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=110625&mesg_id=110684

People need evangelists like fish need electric shavers.

[struggle4progress]

26. So the real point of your post was to put "Chrisianity" and "shit" together in a subject line

[okasha]

27. And indulge some manufactured outrage

along the way.

[Ian David]

29. That's usually enough to make it worth getting out of bed in the morning. n/t

[cain_7777]

25. Christianity shits on everything, what's new?

[struggle4progress]

32. Is there any content to your post besides mere nastiness?

If there is, I'm not seein it :shrug:

[spoony]

33. The moderators don't have a problem with it,

apparently. So if anything our complaints will be deleted.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

28. Your subject line has a tendency to be redundant.

:P