Defrocked pastor's church hopes to change rules on gay clergy

[struggle4progress]

By GIOVANNA DELL'ORTO
Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - ... Members of St. John's Lutheran Church last weekend filed by their pastor, hugging him and exchanging jokes. Gleeful children rushed past toward a treats-laden table.

Many in the 350-member Atlanta congregation say they don't plan to let the Rev. Bradley Schmeling leave the pulpit on Aug. 15, as ordered last week by an Evangelical Lutheran Church in America disciplinary committee because he is in a gay relationship.

Defying the order could end Atlanta's oldest Lutheran church affiliation with the ELCA, cutting off the small church and its members from the large denomination's resources, including community service programs, hymn books and access to synod officials for guidance on legal, financial and spiritual matters.

St. John's members hope it doesn't come to that. They want the denomination to change its rules about sexually active gay clergy at its biennial churchwide assembly Aug. 6-12 in Chicago, just days before Schmeling is set to be removed from the clergy ...

http://www.jacksonville.com/apnews/stories/021607/D8NAJLE04.shtml

[DeSwiss]

1. Do you believe that every human being was born to live in freedom and equality?

This is the fundamental question every Christian must ask themselves. It has been my belief for many years, that the issue of homosexuality could be the church's undoing. Because the question, rather than being one of ancient verse of the Old Testament, runs directly at odds with the verse in the New. At least those words that are attributed to god.

We are to believe that god loves us. So much so that he became his own son, and then sacrificed himself in atonement of our sins. Thereby paying the price of hell and damnation for us. In exchange, all he asks is that we love one another. That we put away our swords and shields, and to beat them into plowshares. To, "do unto to others, as we would have others do to ourselves." This is the foundation of Christian belief.

But the church's position is anathema to their own savior. It asks that we deny forgiveness and acceptance just in this instance. They ask that gay people live with less rights and dignity and acceptance in society. And they ask that this be permanently inscribed into our laws and constitution. In so doing, undermine the constitution's prohibition to "make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

And their position generally goes against the American sense of fair play. For many of these churchgoers in particular. Some of them have actually read the book. And the church forgets that many of their members are gay. And others have brothers and sisters, cousins and aunts, and friends from a lifetime -- all of which informs them to the truth. And places them at odds with the church's' pronouncements that being gay is evil and ungodly. They refuse to accept this.

And there are even a few among the Christian right that do not accept the idea that homosexuality should be punished. Of course its because they believe homosexuals can be saved or cured, or both.

But who is the church besides its people? Can the church exist without them? Are we to take society back to another period of civil exclusion? Lead by the church? This -- "church of love?"

There is a glaring disconnect here that must be resolved. The church is gambling its authority will prevail. That the written word (and their interpretation of it), will overtake the substance of reality -- and bend it to its will. If they win, what then is their legacy? Where do they stop? Why would they stop, after weilding such power? Which group is next?

In Europe, the church decries the absence of members. That the people should come back to the church. Is there any wonder why they do not? Maybe this is the beginning here....

[xchrom]

2. sigh -- and the spirituality of hate continues.

conservatives continue to disregard the notion that without love -- all prophecy, knowledge, and faith is in vain.

if one were to replace the word love with the word god -- or the word with the word we -- with paul's words to the corinthians they would come light years closer to what the spirit of christ intends.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. Well said.

[xchrom]

4. thank you.

[redqueen]

11. Beautifully said.

:thumbsup:

[struggle4progress]

15. You should actually read what's at the link and, for background, you should

look at this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=111544&mesg_id=111544

It is true that the church committee that investigated this case did say that the current rules required his removal -- but they also recommended the rules be changed. So the committee is forcing the issue. And his congregation is supporting him. So it's not entirely clear to me that this reads "spirituality of hate continues."

[xchrom]

17. you're right i should have.

[Doondoo]

5. Defrocked Atlanta pastor's church hopes to change rules on gay clergy

ATLANTA (AP) -- It was a typical Sunday scene and, in its own way, a small act of defiance. Members of St. John's Lutheran Church last weekend filed by their pastor, hugging him and exchanging jokes. Gleeful children rushed past toward a treats-laden table.

Many in the 350-member Atlanta congregation say they don't plan to let the Rev. Bradley Schmeling leave the pulpit on Aug. 15, as ordered last week by an Evangelical Lutheran Church in America disciplinary committee because he is in a gay relationship.

Defying the order could end Atlanta's oldest Lutheran church affiliation with the ELCA, cutting off the small church and its members from the large denomination's resources, including community service programs, hymn books and access to synod officials for guidance on legal, financial and spiritual matters.

St. John's members hope it doesn't come to that. They want the denomination to change its rules about sexually active gay clergy at its biennial churchwide assembly Aug. 6-12 in Chicago, just days before Schmeling is set to be removed from the clergy.

"We are not an activist church, even though we can stand for issues of justice," said Charles Fox, who occasionally assists Schmeling at Sunday worship. "He exemplifies the kind of love and empathy I envision Christ to have had."


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SOU_RELIGION_TODAY_GAOL-?SITE=VARIT&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-02-16-00-02-26

[youngdem]

6. Personally, I don't understand why any gay person would want to be a Christian

Just as with the Log Cabin Repukes. WHY IN THE HELL would you join a belief system that as a cornerstone of its theology, rejects who you are as an abomination and sin?

[RoBear]

7. I've been of the same opinion for some time now...

I grew up as SuperCatholic, but gradually became aware that this was not what I believed. Interestingly (or not?) the most significant event I can remember is when I confessed masturbation (at the time a mortal sin) and the priest jumped on me full force. I think I knew at the time that he often busily cruised a nearby rest area to make sexual contacts with other guys. That might be why hypocrisy is the thing that infuriates me most...

[harrison]

8. There is a difference in Christianity and Christendom.

Don't blame Jesus because his followers ain't getting it right. Hell, Jesus didn't even invent Christianity. Personally, I think he meant for all of us to become Honorary Jews.

[cosmik debris]

9. That is not entirely true

Not all Christians hold that theology.

[cyborg_jim]

10. Indeed.

Except that the cornerstone of the belief system is not the rejection of gays - it is the rejection of the human. A far more serious thing in my mind.

[redqueen]

12. Hmmmmm

That's a very interesting thought... but is it really the cornerstone of Christianity? Perhaps there is enough difference between OT and NT "christianity" to consider them separately? Or would you say it applies equally to both?

Fair disclosure: I consider the bible to be folklore written by tribesmen... it is nice if you go for that sort of thing and can ignore the faults for the niceties, but completely unnecessary, IMO.

[cyborg_jim]

14. The underlying Christian message is quite simple:

Humans are so shit that only by killing one of us in the most gruesome way possible will he even consider not ruining our shit for eternity.

I don't think you could get much more self-loathing if you tried.

[struggle4progress]

16. It escapes your attention that the crucifixion was an act of the Roman military occupation?

[JerseygirlCT]

13. You know, at every baptism, our (Episcopal) congregation

is asked:

Will you strive for justice and peace among all
people, and respect the dignity of every human
being?

As I point out at every opportunity, what part of that is so hard to understand? Not every straight human being, every human being.

Homophobia and bigotry just doesn't fit in there.