Date of Christ's birth

[realFedUp]

-lots of scholarly writing (and guessing) on
Jesus's real date of birth...I read one
book that thought March 25th was more true
to the real date, which means this year Christ would
die on his birthday.

http://www.cornerstonechurchofskippack.com/pastorsdesk/questions/qa21.html

Question: What is the date of Christ's birth?

Answer: This question would be much less difficult to answer if the angels had announced to the shepherds the exact date as an annual celebration! But, of course, they did not, and we are left to research (guess?).
Neither is the ancient church of any real help in this regard, for although it celebrated Christ's resurrection from the beginning (indeed, every Sunday!), it did not celebrate His birth until the mid-fourth century. By this time birth records were long gone.

Luke, the inspired historian, helps somewhat by naming Caesar Augustus of Rome and Cyrenius of Syria (Luke 2:1-2). This, along with the aid of secular history and archaeological findings (Roman records, etc.), allows us to pinpoint the very year (almost!): about 6 B.C. Yes, that's right, our calendar is now known to be about 6 years off.

But what about the day - December 25? That guess may be as good as any. The Eastern church observes January 6. But many feel that on those cold, wet, windy, winter nights in Judea, shepherds may not be so easily found "in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night" (Luke 2;8). Perhaps March or April is a safer guess - lambing season.

Another problem: December 25 was for a long time a pagan holiday. It seems that "Christians" joined the celbration adding a new flavor: rather than worshipping the sun god, they could worship "the Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2), observing a "Christ's Mass" the same day. Perhaps their intention was to Christianize the pagans. Perhaps it was to remove the distinction between Christianity and the Roman cult and so make them more acceptable. But with the decline of Roman influence, Natalis Invicti, the pagan sun festivals, fell into the shadows. The Christmas custom remained - by that time it was solid Christian tradition.

continued

[ewagner]

1. Thanks for the nice post

It's refreshing to see a frank discussion of these topics.

[realFedUp]

2. sure....I don't think the actual date matters in faith

I think history is important but
when and how we celebrate certain holidays has
less to do with history than faith.

The historical Jesus is important to
study IMO...what was going on at the time.
What attracted groups of people to what
he was saying...who else was opposing
the Romans and their surrogates etc.
Even if you don't believe he was God
incarnate...how what he said, did and his believers
changed history for the next 2000 plus years
is worth knowing about.

[Dhalgren]

3. The birth of Dionysus is also given as in the spring.

It may be true, but is also symbolically "reaffirming". Sources of inspiration and "connectivity" are always welcomed.

[ktowntennesseedem]

4. Plus the fact that Herod died in 4BC means that is the latest possible yr.

The exact date is impossible to determine, and it is widely thought that the stories surrounding Christ's birth came about years later when people started wondering about it all, to the details are at best sketchy.

But since it's a matter of faith anyway, historical accuracy isn't important in the first place. (Just don't try to sell that to a fundamentalist Xn!)

[onager]

5. January 8

At least, to the Coptic Christians in Egypt that's the date of Jesus' birth. The Coptic Christmas is an official government holiday in Egypt, even though the population is 94% Muslim.

I spent most of January working in Egypt, arriving there on the 6th. I am an atheist, and was just grateful for an extra day off work to recover from jet lag. (January 8 was on Saturday, which is normally the first day of the work week in Muslim countries--the same as Monday in the U.S.)

[A HERETIC I AM]

6. Our calender is Heliocentric, that is to say, based on the seasons

of the sun and it's movements. When viewed from north of the equator, the sun rises and sets further northward during the fall until December 22nd where it rises and sets at the same spot on the horizon for 3 days. On December 25th, it rises for the first time at a more southerly position, signaling that the Earth is tilting back on it's axis. This is why the pagans AND the xtians celebrate the birth of "The Saviour" on Dec. 25th. The Sun is the "Light of the world" and the return of spring means life through the new growth that will occur.

This is also why Easter Sunday is never on the same day. Easter is ALWAYS the FIRST Sunday, after the first full moon AFTER THE SPRING EQUINOX

Sounds delightfully pagan, doesn't it?


THATS CAUSE IT IS!!!!

[onager]

7. Even the name "Easter..."

...was stolen from a pagan fertility goddess, IIRC. Which accounts for the symbolism of bunnies, eggs, etc.

Now when it comes to symbolism, the holiday that cracks me up is St. Valentine's Day. No matter how much the Church tried to sanctify that one, I think that even the dumbest believer in any era could grasp the symbolism of a long shaft penetrating a heart-shaped object.

[El Supremo]

8. Epipany is January 6th.

Members of some Christian denominations give presents on that day and not Christmas which is still December 25. I think the Coptic Church is still on the Julian Calendar, so who knows when their Christmas is?

Now, the date for Easter is different for the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

[Igel]

9. There's also an argument for his birth being in the fall. n/t

[Mich Otter]

10. Fall was tax time

I seem to remember the claim that Jesus was born in the Fall because that was when the farmers sold their crops and paid their taxes.
Can anyone speak to this idea?
The government then, it is now, was quick to get their share before the money was spent improving the quality of life for some, or spent on grog by others.

[Roland99]

11. If Joseph and Mary had stuck by traditional Judaic rules for royalty...

Joseph was of the Davidic line and the rules dictated he and Mary could only conceive in the month of December (resulting in a birth in Sept., the holiest of Jewish months.)

However, Joseph and Mary jumped the gun and Mary conceived a few months prior, ending in a spring birth for Jesus.

[dryan]

12. Actually....

Christ's birth was set on December 25th when the Christian calendar was first codified around the 4th century. That's why some feasts are "movable" and some set. At that time there were still large parts of the empire and outside the empire (Roman) that weren't Christianized. One of the largest cults was the cult of Mitaris. He was worshiped especially among the military. Mitaris was born of a virgin and his birthday was December 25th.

Bible scholars believe that Christ was actually born in the springtime because the shepherd were guarding their new born lambs and baby lambs are born in the springtime.

Also, if you want to be really technical, Jesus's birth probably happened about 3-6 years earlier that the year it is based in tradition. That's why we see more and more BCE which means before Christian Era.

[Roland99]

13. You just confirmed what I just wrote

:silly: