Is Jesus the Savior?

[ghardy68]

Since Christianity is only 2500-3500 years old how could Jesus be the savior since the Earth is Billions of years old and the bible says nothing about other galaxies?

[natrat]

1. there is no jesus or god or any of that

it's a load they feed people to keep em in line,,,,saviour? save ourselves and family and friends and this fragile land

[WI_DEM]

2. yes

he is my savior and that is all that counts to me. If anybody else disagrees that is their belief system.

[papau]

14. Amen - and well said :-)

:-)

[lavenderdiva]

22. mine too... n/t

[mmonk]

3. In the time of Jesus

saviour meant someone who was going to deliver the Jewish people from foreign rule. So it depends on what you mean since the definition or meaning has changed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Christianity is nowhere near 2500-3500 years old. While based

on an older religion, christianity's primary books were written just 1800-1900 years ago, and for the most part codified 1650 years ago.

Which doesn't change your question a bit.

[ananda]

5. evidence?

Is there any historical or scientific evidence whatsoever that anyone's particular Jesus ever existed?

No? Didn't think so.

Sue

[Dogmudgeon]

32. There's plenty of evidence

The historical Jesus is fairly well documented by the standards of the time. The religious mythos is drawn mainly from the Bible, tradition (i.e., folk tales) and a few apocryphal texts. There are also several accounts of the presence of Christians, dating back to about the time Jesus is thought to have been alive.

Non-belief in a religious creed is no basis to assume that its personages didn't exist, either. If you want to apply a similar "scientific" standard, then no one existed before the invention of photography.

--p!

[mutus_frutex]

34. Please provide some historical evidence of the existence of Jesus

I would really like to see it.

[aneerkoinos]

35. Only indirect evidence

The most plausible (but not only) explanation for the existance of wide literary tradition around Jesus/Christ and his teaching is that there was indeed some religious teacher that left such an impression on his contemporaries that perhaps a decade after his death people collected his sayings into book/books and about a generation after his death started collecting hearsay and rumours about his life and deeds and putting that in books, most likely also making stuff up in the process to get a better story.

[mutus_frutex]

36. I know..

The other poster talked about "plenty", so I was just wondering if something big had happened since the last time I checked.. ;-)

I don't really have a formed opinion regarding the existence of a historical Jesus. I can neither accept it nor deny it. If I remember correctly, the only reference to him outside of the gospels comes from Suetonius. The rest of the references are truly doubtful.

Cheers..

[Canuckistanian]

6. If he is, we need him now

Before the so-called "messengers of the Lord" destroy the planet and a centuries-old way of life.

[Wright Patman]

7. Where do you get

2,500 to 3,500 years old? There is some suggestion Christ was born as long ago as 4 B.C., but that still makes it impossible for Christianity to be anything other than approximately 2,000 years old.

I sure hope Christ is the savior. Can I prove that? No. That's why they call it the Christian "faith."

I also am quite confident that the "Christ" worshipped in most fundy churches cannot save anyone. Those churches might as well serve as the local GOP headquarters in most cases.

[ExpresS]

29. Now that is funny.

*Quote*

There is some suggestion Christ was born as long ago as 4 B.C., but that still makes it impossible for Christianity to be anything other than approximately 2,000 years old.

*End Quote*

Considering "B.C." stands for "Before Christ" (more recently changed in the scientific community to B.C.E. - before common era) it would be difficult for Jesus Christ to be born before his accepted place-holder in history. In other words, he cannot exist before he was born.

Regardless, I understood your intended meaning.

[trotsky]

8. Reminds me of questions I had in Sunday School.

What happened to all the people that died before Jesus?

There's nothing in the bible to answer that question, so every Christian sect that claims to have an answer is making one up.

[mike_c]

9. isn't it time to put that tired old myth to bed...?

It's just another reason to justify bigotry, intolerance, oppression, and murder. Same as it ever was.

[politicaholic]

10. I think there are much more pressing things that you could fret about...

Questioning religion is not going to change anyone's mind. If they are simple minded enough to believe every word in the bible then they're not even close to being smart enough to change their minds.

Example #1 - George W. Bush - way too stupid to rethink his own position on anything. It's looking pretty obvious that the American people don;t like his SS scheme, but yet has he changed his mind?

[MemphisTiger]

11. Aww, c'mon he changes his position on nation building

He said during the 2000 campaigne that he was not in favor of nation building, I guess that one was just a joke

[undergroundpanther]

12. Sometimes

I wisdh there was a savior..Someone who could wake up people,shake up people and break this trance and get rid of the corruption in high and low places,apparently somethings gotta happen, when too many good people are not doing the right things and they stop caring and risking for each other to keep society ethical..and I don't wanna be around when this stupid game reaches the boiling point and becomes very ugly very fast all because we all stood by too long,trusted the wrong people, and said it couldn't happen_to me_when it occured to us that bad people took too much control over all our lives..and created horrors that never had to be..but are..

[undergroundpanther]

13. We have to be our own saviors

for the sake of each other now. I don't believe it myself,but according to the Christians bible Jesus himself says does not know the date of his return..so what do we mere humans do to stop bad people from hurting us in the meantime and destroying our democracy.Prayer isn't too effective of a weapon for getting justics in politics or in life if the"enemy" is people who have no consience..and too much power and can fake having a consience..
Any Christians wanna answer that one?

[El Supremo]

15. Revelation 13:8

Revelation 13:8 "the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world."

Jesus is everybody's savior. Whether they knew about him or not.

[rniel]

16. My question is

How could someone who is the son of God sit back and let his teachings and message get so misused and perverted beyond belief.

[Roland99]

17. 2500 - 3500 years old? I'm assuming you failed math in school.

;)

Considering Jesus died either around 30CE or as late as 60CE (or so), I think you're a bit generous as to the timeframe of Christianity.

That said, your question poses no contradiction.

I'm assuming you're trying to blast the Fund-A-Mentals that take literal translations of the Bible to mean the earth is ~6,000 - 7,000 years old? If so, what is the basis of your contention?

[YankeyMCC]

18. Way to jump into the fray there ghardy68 n/t

[sakabatou]

19. Jesus was not the savior

War is still going on. The Temple has not been rebuilt.

[Stunster]

20. You're assuming that time is a fundamental feature of reality

But in fact, it may well be an illusion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x14152#14245

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. If that's true

so fucking what?

[Stunster]

23. If time isn't a fundamental feature of reality

the topic question loses its force, since the question presupposes real temporal distance between Jesus and early humans, and at a deeper level of scientific analysis, this distance may well evaporate....

A recent book arguing for the view that physical nature is truly timeless is A World Without Time: The Forgotten Legacy of Godel and Einstein, by Palle Yourgrau.

Another is, Time's Arrow and Archimedes' Point, by Huw Price. More details on his views here: http://www.usyd.edu.au/time/price/TAAP.html

And this from several years ago in the Los Angeles Times:

November 16, 1999

Time, Space Obsolete in New View of Universe

Many physicists are embracing a revolutionary, still mysterious idea
called string theory. The concept rejects several familiar notions and includes the existence of 11 dimensions.

OF SPACE, TIME AND STRINGS. Rocking the foundations of physics. First in a series

....No idea has been harder to give up, however--for physicists and
laypeople alike--than everyday notions of space and time, the fundamental "where" and "when" of the universe and everything in it....

.....Now, some physicists are taking this revolutionary line of thinking one step further: If their theories are right, in the words of Edward Witten of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, space and time may be "doomed."

Concurs physicist Nathan Seiberg, also of the institute: "I am almost
certain that space and time are illusions. These are primitive notions that will be replaced by something more sophisticated....."

So, that's fucking what---the question may well be based upon an illusion.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. So fucking what?

What the fuck is the use of a point of view that thinks time is an illusion?

[Stunster]

25. It's useful in showing

that the question of this topic thread may well be predicated on something that is not really the case, and hence help to show that the question may rest on a misunderstanding.

Timelessness also seems to a growing number of physicists to be highly relevant to the development of a successful theory of quantum gravity. For instance, string theory has been developed this way, and the concept of timelessness is explicitly adduced in Brian Greene's fine book, THE ELEGANT UNIVERSE (pp. 376ff).

Of course, if one is not interested in whether questions are based on misunderstandings, or in finding a successful theory of quantum gravity, then it may not be of much use to you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Who gives a toss what it shows?

[More Than A Feeling]

27. that would be because the ancient Israelites who wrote the Bible

didn't know about other galaxies.

[Stevepol]

28. Jesus gave us a pattern. The Christ spirit is what saves.

The Christ Spirit has always been and always will be as long as man inhabits the earth; it is one with the creative spirit that is God. It is the basic spiritual pattern that's imprinted on all souls. Jesus became the Christ by his life and works. We all find our greatest level of expression and being thru the Christ Spirit as well. If that's considered salvation, then there is only one.

There's only one Christ Spirit and it lives in all religions and all people. Jesus lived in a specific plot of land at a particular point in time. He fully exemplified that spirit for his time and place. Jesus for that time; the Christ Spirit for all time.

The Christ Spirit is what tells us that as we do to others so we are doing to ourselves and so we will have visited on ourselves at some point in our lives on this earth, either this life or a future one. By identifying with that spirit we draw closer to that pattern and thus closer to God.

But these are just words. Only when it becomes personal and a part of our lives does it mean anything. The same was true in Jesus's time.

[ExpresS]

30. How does the religious right explain...

carbon dating? When I ask this question to christains the tell me that carbon dating is false and unsubstantiated.

I interpret this as, "Carbon-dating is the DEVIL!"

[Must_B_Free]

31. In my opinion, he is one saviour

among many.

Christ was a teacher; the roman empire under Constantine latched on to him (embrace, extend) and perverted his messages into a vehicle of oppression.

In my opinion the crucifixion was turned into an episode of terror - if you look at the way the constantinian Christians interpret the crucifixion it is all about hs suffering.

By contrast, the original agrarian meaning of the story is that of the cycle of seasons, death and rebirth.

[mutus_frutex]

33. Who?? nt

[FM Arouet666]

37. 2500-3500 years.

Perhaps you mean the judeo portion of the judeo-christian faith? Either way, the whole jesus as savior business sounds ridiculous. If you walk around NYC preaching an end to the sins of mankind you will be locked up in Bellevue, 2000 years ago, you could become the son of god and a savior. Guess there is a lot to be said about getting in on a racket early. :evilgrin: