As we had such fun with those "spirituality" articles, I present you "atheist spirituality" by vjack

[More Than A Feeling]

Atheist Spirituality

Can an atheist be a spiritual person, and if so, in what sense? Is it meaningful to talk of atheist spirituality, or should the term be reserved for religious believers? This post may end up generating more questions than answers, but that seems fitting for a discussion of spirituality.

Let me get my bias out of the way at the beginning because it probably colors what I am about to say on the topic. I do not care for the word "spirituality" when referring to atheists. I have trouble getting past the "spirit" part of the word because I do not believe in spirits, souls, ghosts, demons, or anything else that is not part of the natural world. However, I recognize that my naturalism is not entailed by atheism and that other atheists are free to accept the reality of the supernatural.

(snip)

Can an atheist be a spiritual person?

Absolutely. If we think of something like trait spirituality as ranging on a continuum from low to high, atheists can score at any point along the continuum just like anyone else. High scores would indicate someone who seeks spiritual experiences or who experiences the various components of spirituality, depending on how the measure functions.

(snip)

Do atheists need spirituality?

I think this question needs to be reframed in order to be meaningful. Think of it this way: atheists (like everyone else) vary in terms of their need for spirituality. Spirituality is vital to some atheists, and we could appropriately label such persons as needing spirituality. For others, the need for spirituality may be low enough that it would be hard to recognize it as such.

http://atheistrevolution.blogspot.com/2008/01/atheist-spirituality.html

Have at it!:popcorn:

[varkam]

1. Thanks for posting this. I tend to think of myself as a spiritual atheist.

I do think, though, that "spiritual" is a terrible word to describe it for reasons outlined in the article. I don't believe in anything metaphysical really, no ghosts or goblins, nor gods or devils. For me, spirituality is about appreciating the moment, our place in this vast, vast universe, and the fact that we are all members of this thing called the human race (and subsequently subject to all the vices and virtues of our peers and fore-fathers).

At times, I would also say that I have had spiritual experiences. The most recent one was when I was serving dinner at a homeless shelter (whenever I mention that for the purposes of telling a story, I also mention that I am doing it as a form of amends for some of the terrible things that I have done in my life lest anyone think me showy or a good person). I was serving dinner when I came to realize that I saw a little bit of myself in each of the people that I was serving dinner to. For a moment, ever so brief, I forgot what the difference was between "us and them". There was just us. For a few days after that, I can only say that I was filled with a feeling that I can only describe as being simultaneously painful, euphoric, horrifying, and beautiful. Paradoxical, I know.

For me, spirituality isn't really about making claims about the world and how it works. It's about a sort of inner-meaning. I don't generally subscribe to the idea that there is a grand, over-arching purpose to existence. I think that the only meaning that this life holds is that which we are able to give it, that which we are able to find amidst the vast sea of suffering, joy, love, and hatred that we find ourselves swimming in. For me, being a spiritual atheist is all about finding what that meaning is, and what it means to me.

I hope that made at least a little sense.

[More Than A Feeling]

2. Hey, stranger!

Reckon we haven't seen you round these parts lately, but we're shore glad you happened along! That's a very beautiful experience you had there. :hi:

I myself am experimenting with reverence and awe for the natural universe. Dawkins called it "sexed up atheism" in The God Delusion, to which I reply, "And just what is wrong with sexy atheism?"

[varkam]

3. Oh I've been around, just been too busy / stupid to post anything...

...meaningful around here lately.

I liked the term sexed up atheism :rofl:. I'm actually reading another Dawkins book right now, Unweaving the Rainbow. It sort of falls along similiar lines in that it explores the beauty and wonder that is inherent in this natural world. In the beginning of the book, he writes about how fortunate we are to be here considering the absurdly low probability that (a) we would even be here in the first place, and (b) that we are here as us, given all the possible different combinations of DNA that we could of had. The fact that we are here, and breathing, and with each other should be more than enough to make us feel awe and wonder. The vast majority of people that could ever be born will never see the light of day. Kind of interesting, when you think about it (or at least when I think about it).

[More Than A Feeling]

4. Exactly.

Plus, I love the thought of my matter/energy being as old as the universe itself, and I find much comfort in the thought of dissolving back into the universe, so to speak, after I die. In a totally naturalistic and scientific way, of course.

[varkam]

5. This thread is reminding me of...

..something I wrote a while ago on my blog. If you want to, you can read it here.

[More Than A Feeling]

6. If theistic, anthropomorphic, religion were ever on trial, and I were the prosecutor

the first indictment wouldn't be for murder, or genocide, though both would be there. It would be theft of feelings that rightfully belong to the universe.

[Silent3]

22. If there are no goblins...

I don't believe in anything metaphysical really, no ghosts or goblins, nor gods or devils.

...then what exactly has Goblinmonger been mongering all this time? Inquiring minds need to know.

[NMMNG]

7. Thanks for posting that.

I have them on my blogroll. I left my mark on that one. :hi:

[More Than A Feeling]

9. Wow, I didn't even notice all the comments.

Kewl. Damn, there are more than one or two, aren't there?

[NMMNG]

11. Mine was #13

Not bad at all. :thumbsup:

[More Than A Feeling]

12. Pretty sweet. Soon we can start our own caucus in the atheist movement or something!

First order of business, raiding UU societies/churches for members!:evilgrin:

[NMMNG]

13. Shhhhh. You'll scare the fundies.

They already think we're plotting to take over Amurka. :rofl:

[More Than A Feeling]

14. We aren't?

Oh...hold on, I have to make some urgent phone calls! :silly:

[Evoman]

8. Even when atheists use the word, I still don't know what it means.

I have no need for the word, nor do I find it necessary to harp on about my connectednesss to the universe or other people.

I love people, I love nature, and I love me some astronomy (anyone remember my post about "Us" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x113118 ). But this spirituality crap rubs me the wrong way and seems to me more of a way of pretending to be deep and special.

But whatever. Do what you have to do, you sexy spiritual people. Evoman has jobs to apply for. No matter how much I connect to it, the stupid universe doesn't seem to want to give me any money.

[More Than A Feeling]

10. Aw, now why'd you have to go and mention jobs, you killjoy!

:P

I have my own work-finding difficulties, and the stress is eating me up inside. I just want it to end, so much so that for a moment, I considered going to Alaska to find work this summer, and I HATE the cold, even just midwestern cold..

[Evoman]

20. Alaska is beautiful.

And in the summer, it isn't even that cold.

[varkam]

15. I think someone has a god-shaped hole in their heart!

:P

Grumpy atheist.

[moggie]

16. This is Evoman you're talking about

He has a god-shaped hole in his arse.

[trotsky]

17. LMAO n/t

[Evoman]

18. Mmmm...not so much.

It's less god shaped than mashed-potato-mountain-from-close-encounters shaped. Under certain light, it bears a stunning resemblance to a young Robert Redford....made out of mashed potatoes.

[Marrah_G]

19. I'm not quite sure what the hell it means either

Although I am pretty sure most would toss me into this category who's meaning I haven't a clue about.

Now stop posting shit I agree with.

[skepticscott]

28. Nor should you

Spirituality is a Rorschach word....it means whatever each person decides that it means for themself, and that meaning is in every case perfectly valid. The only thing to agree on is that we won't agree on it.

[heidler1]

21. Thank you for a interesting post. Even though I don't believe in standard spirituality.

I've had lots of experiences that other people might call spiritual, like waking up in the middle of the night with a invention idea, that was sometimes even worth money, or the solution to some computer problem while working for IBM or how to solve a family problem. I see these things as being run through the gamut of mental testing for feasibility, while asleep, and one by one are rejected until one solution stands out as un-reject able and this automatically wakes me up so that my conscious mind can rejoice and share the moment.

After I retired I volunteered to be on the Board of the Area Agency on Aging where in we distributed about three million $ of Fed. money each year. I found myself fighting the system so I resigned after about a year. Having never used the system personally I'm not sure I thought about it correctly. This too interfered with my sleep, but not in a favorable way.

[cosmik debris]

23. It seems strange to me.

The article seems to say that spirituality is there whether you need it or not. But I just can't buy that.

Spirituality provides no evidence of its existence and flunks the Occam's Razor test. Accepting the concept of spirituality is the same as accepting the concept of god because it requires that you waive the need for evidence as well as the reasonability test.

I suppose that an atheist can be spiritual because we all disbelieve for different reasons. But it seems strange to me that a person would dismiss the spirit called god and accept some other spirit.

[More Than A Feeling]

24. This gets back to the amorphous character of the word's defintion.

People who talk about the letter of the law, not it's spirit, or about the spirit of the times, are unlikely to be suggesting that our courtrooms or societies are haunted

[cosmik debris]

26. But in those cases

spirit is synonymous with some emotion. So we could equate spiritualism with emotionalism? Would the lack of spiritualism be lack of emotion? Or just the proper interpretation of emotion.

And there I go wandering off on a tangent.....

[More Than A Feeling]

27. That seems like the most sensible interpretation to me.

We could call it emotionalism, but appropriately, spirituality might elicit a more emotional response for some. ;-)

[heidler1]

25. Saying that your a Spiritual Atheist to me is like Randoid Ron Paul saying he's a Christian.

Having a leg on either side of some fence is comforting for some people.

[varkam]

29. I didn't realize that I have one leg on either side of the fence.

I always thought that not believing in a god, an afterlife, or souls made one an atheist. Who knew?

[More Than A Feeling]

30. Yeah, we can't do that.

The last thing we need are "no true atheist" games, and its just plain wrong.

[heidler1]

32. Weren't you in on the rejection of the Fundamental Atheist games?

I stayed out of that one because to me it was meaningless. This dilution of the word Atheist is more basic. IMO If you like the big tent idea as applied to Atheism, lotsa luck, I doubt that it will work very well. The believing Atheist was rejected. The gullible Atheist seems silly.:sarcasm:

[More Than A Feeling]

33. You're kidding, right?

After all the disputes we've had with religious folk who alter their definitions in self-serving ways, you want us to do the same? No dice. I don't think its silly, and even if you do, being silly does not make someone not an atheist.

[varkam]

35. It seems you have more of an issue with the terminology I used

as opposed to the ideas that I subscribe to (as, after all, I'm completely a materialist - so it's kind of hard for me to be anything but an atheist as materialism necessitates atheism).

[More Than A Feeling]

36. Speaking of nothing in particular, how's life as a moderator?

I've thought of going for it myself before. As much time as I spend on here, might as well be of some use to someone else.

[varkam]

37. It would be great except for the primaries.

I can't tell you how sick I am sometimes at some of the things I read on here about how Barack eats babies and Hillary is actually an android, etc etc. I guess people need something to fight about.

But you should apply next time we need mods - you'd make a good one!

[heidler1]

31. Yeah and it's a barb wire fence so don't lose your balance or it's rip time.

[varkam]

34. As H&E notes...

I would rather stay away from the "no true atheist" gambit.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

38. I think it depends upon the individual

those who say the only things that are real are those things that you can measure in some way and who discount intuition and emotions aren't going to buy any of this, I think. I find it difficult to speak of spirituality to people like this because their view of reality is so very different from mine it is like we are not speaking the same language.

For those who feel spirituality is important, I am sure that they see their experiences as individual and possibly unique; something that can often be impossible or quite difficult to talk about.

[More Than A Feeling]

39. I don't think intuition and emotion are being discounted.

I think they are being directed, by reason. Not used to determine "what's out there," but instead to determine how we feel about it, and how we react to it. For example, the components of spirituality mentioned in that blog post:

Many components of spirituality have been posited, and while consensus remains elusive, some of the more popular include vitality, connectedness, transcendence, and meaningfulness. One of the most commonly described experiences of spirituality involves a sense of one's interconnectedness to others and a dissolving of self-other boundaries.

And here's an example of an entire movement dedicated to doing all of that, in a fully naturalistic manner:

World Pantheist Movement

[varkam]

40. I think emotions are very real, even though I subscribe...

to a totally naturalistic world view. Emotions are essentially the result of neuro-chemical interactions in this lump of meat that we have in our heads. Not very romantic, I know.

I think the problem comes in, though, when people try to use emotions or intuition as an epistemological procedure for divining truth about the world. That is a problem, of course, that is proportional to the claims that one makes. In other words, emotions to not make for good evidence, but in my mind certain things (like just being able to experience the world around you) are not about making claims or arguments - but just about being...if that makes any sense.