Muslims medical students refuse to obey hygiene rules

[genie_weenie]

AWESOME! I want my doctor to not wash prior to tinkering with my intestines. After all if you look at the facts, washing ones hands does not help in stopping the spread of disease.

Muslim medical students are refusing to obey hygiene rules brought in to stop the spread of deadly superbugs, because they say it is against their religion.

But the Islamic Medical Association insisted that covering all the body in public, except the face and hands, was a basic tenet of Islam.

"No practising Muslim woman - doctor, medical student, nurse or patient - should be forced to bare her arms below the elbow," it said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/03/nislam403.xml">Enjoy the Insanity.

[cbayer]

1. RW, fearmongering bullshit. let it die.

[Bobbieo]

2. I WANT MORE THAN YOUR WORD ON THIS!!!!

[aquart]

3. Do they say whether male doctors may wash their hands?

Will a private washroom solve the problem? Or are they trying to prevent women from entering the profession?

I didn't click the unknown link so what's the context here?

[NMMNG]

4. Aye.

Dr Charles Tannock, a Conservative MEP and former hospital consultant, said: "These students are being trained using taxpayers' money and they have a duty of care to their patients not to put their health at risk.

"Perhaps these women should not be choosing medicine as a career if they feel unable to abide by the guidelines that everyone else has to follow."


I'm with him. Patient health and safety trumps religious beliefs. If they can't comply with guidelines they need to find a more suitable career.

[Bobbieo]

5. My son had MERSAs ( Mercers) and it took 5 weeks of hosptal care

to clean it up.

[Warpy]

16. What the hell are these ever so modest young things going to do

the first time they have to insert a urinary catheter into a male patient? Disimpact feces from a male patient?

Clearly, unless they're being trained in Islamic countries where their only contact will be with female patients, they're in the wrong professions if they're going to be such fuddy duddies about handwashing.

I worked with strict Muslim nurses and doctors here in the US. The women discarded the hijab because it got in the way, but they did wear long sleeves and scrubs. Everybody pushed those sleeves up to do a thorough scrub no matter who was walking past the washstand. There was little problem with contamination since long sleeved disposable gowns were worn over our clothing during any patient contact with infected patients.

I have to say I've never known a Muslim nurse or doctor to be that prudish.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. More from Dr Majid Katme - "vaccinations are unlawful for Muslims"

A leading Islamic doctor is urging British Muslims not to vaccinate their children against diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella because they contain substances making them unlawful for Muslims to take.

Dr Abdul Majid Katme, head of the Islamic Medical Association, says almost all vaccines contain un-Islamic "haram" derivatives of animal or human tissue, and that Muslim parents are better off letting childrens' immune systems develop on their own.

Dr Katme, an NHS psychiatrist, said: "If you breastfeed your child for two years - as the Koran says - and you eat Koranic food like olives and black seed, and you do ablution each time you pray, then you will have a strong defence system."

The Department of Health and the British Medical Association have criticised Dr Katme, saying his suggestions are likely to increase infection rates of children in Muslim communities. Other Muslim groups have also condemned the suggestion.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/muslims-urged-to-refuse-unislamic-vaccinations-434027.html

Glad to see other Muslim groups have condemned that - perhaps the "Islamic Medical Association" is a fringe groups of nutters.

[Bobbieo]

7. I'm not the least bit religious, but I can see that

Muslims do not seem to relate very well to today's modern world.

[varkam]

17. I'm sorry, son. Allah wants you to have Polio!

:puke:

[cloudythescribbler]

8. Yeah, and Christian Scientists oppose modern medicine altogether -- some way we muddle thru ...

[Silent3]

9. Yes, Christian "Scientists" muddle through...

...sometimes with fatal results. Since Western medicine isn't strictly forbidden, however, just avoided, many CS are practical when it comes to emergencies -- and I think most, on those occasions when they do opt for more conventional treatments, would want their surgeons to wash their hands before cutting them open to mess with their innards.

[Realityhack]

14. As the above poster mentioned...

with sometimes fatal results. And IIRC that sometimes ends up in court when children are involved with mixed results (not surprising given our countries religious extremism).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. People, it's THE TELEGRAPH

Britain's printed equivalent of Fox News.

Nudge-nudge-wink-wink-say no more.

[moggie]

11. It's not about refusal to wash

They're not refusing to wash. They're concerned about the new rule requiring hospital doctors to be bare below the elbow when around patients, to reduce infections. Sleeves can harbour a lot of bacteria.

I wouldn't read much into the story. First, it's the Telegraph, a RW rag which will always spin stories against multiculturalism. Second, they're students: you expect a certain amount of dumb ideas from students. They'll either wise up or fail. Third, I'm guessing that UK "Islamic Medical Association" is little more than one guy with an agenda. Perhaps he doesn't like Muslim women becoming doctors?

[cloudythescribbler]

12. very thoughtful -- my own response earlier left much to be desired nt

[Dorian Gray]

13. Then I am not going to a Muslim Doctor

who does not practice the proper hygiene for my treatments.

[Realityhack]

15. Ok this seems a lot like a 'hit piece' but...

despite the fact that they seem to be quoting a tiny extremist group this does raise some interesting questions.

First off it seems to me that anyone failing to obey an anti-infection spreading policy against sleeves should immediately be fired/removed from the program regardless of the reason. period end of story. But here we have another case of fringe religion raising up to challenge well established medical practice.
IMO this parallels the US case of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions, and raises a fundamental question about peoples right to inflict their religion on others. Can I get a job as a stripper and then refuse to take my cloths off on religious grounds and keep my job? How do the cases of these Muslims or the above mentioned pharmacists differ if at all?

Secondly it brings up an excellent point regarding extremist Islam (and to some degree other religions) especially when either made into state law or practiced widely. It would appear to me that sticking to these strict interpretations clearly makes it impossible to ever compete in the modern world. If 50% of your brilliant minds are kept down because they are women, and people are dying because you don't like vaccines and hygiene rules, etc. etc. how do you compete (as a culture/country/group) in the modern world? Isn't it neccisary to drop at least some of the religious BS to become a modern civilization and trade/compete in a global economy with countries/groups/etc. that don't all feel like being as backwards as that? How does this reflect on the current US position on many issues especially among evangelicals?