Anyone Here Familiar With Islam?

[leftyladyfrommo]

A Baptist fundamentalist caught me this morning and told me what a horrible person Mohammed was in real life. He killed people and started wars.

Anybody out there know the truth of this. These fundamentalists are prone to making up history. And I don't know much about the real history of Islam.

[bryant69]

1. Well Moses killed people and started wars.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. I read something the other day about Moses being on drugs

and that the bruning bush and parting the Dead Sea and other stuff was the result of this drug that was commonly used in that area. That would kind of make sense.

[Taverner]

2. Somewhat familiar - Mohammed was a military leader as well as a spiritual one

They did start wars.

Then again, so did Christianity. So did every patriarch in the bible. So did Moses, and King David. Joshua would be on trial in the Hague if he were alive today - for genocide.

[Solly Mack]

3. That's their criteria for a "horrible person"?

Then Bush must really be on their shit-list.

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. Well, in all fairness -

they were trying to get a woman out of Afghanistan. It was a ghastly stroy. This woman was 15 and was forced to marry a 40 year old man. She was then brutalized - her nose cut off, burned - it really was horrible. And it is horrible the way women are treated in Afghanistan - I would be the first to stand up and admit that.

But I'm not sure that Islam is really at fault. I just don't know much about the religion.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Mohammed advocated for equality in roles between husbands and wives.

The Wahabi don't recognize this salient point while Sufis do.

[pbca]

6. Only to an extent

What I know is that Mohammad was a soldier to begin with (as opposed to a carpenter) and there were wars, but he didn't start them - he and his soldiers were chased out of Mecca by it's rulers at the time: The rulers of Mecca chased and attacked them, and Mohammad and his followers ended up defeating those soldiers - returning to and capturing Mecca.

Whether or not he is horrible or who started the war I guess would depend on which side you were on at the time.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. But I don't think he was the devil incarnate. Which is what these

people were saying about him. You know, they tend to think in black and white.

[pbca]

10. No..

He was a soldier, he was attacked, he fought - he won

I don't think it really says anything negative about him, unless you're an ultra-pacifist

[jwirr]

13. One of the problems of judging a historical figure by the rules of today

is that our times are very different. Back then most men were somewhat involved in violent wars no matter which side you were on: Islam or Christian. We still idolize the Knights and the medieval leaders like Richard the Lionhearted. What they need to understand is that he was probably no different than any of the rest - just a better warrior. He won.

[Blue_In_AK]

8. My new son-in-law in Muslim

but I haven't had a chance to talk to him about religion. Mostly we talk about rugby.

[kestrel91316]

11. If Mohammed was a terrible man and started wars and killed people,

then we God-fearing Americans should be falling down on our knees and worshipping him just like we do our own Caligula. 'Cause those are good old-fashioned American family values, if you listen to the RW.

[9119495]

12. There is too much to this one for a post here...

but if you'd like a short and easy read to get a great answer to your question, I would suggest you read "No God but God" by Reza Aslan. The short answer is the pastor is wrong. His band of monotheists fell out of favor with the powers that be after it bloomed...sound familiar. Unlike Abraham, who got the message late in life, and Christ who was martyred, Muhammad was successful in winning converts and because he was around for a long time he had to actually create a community of believers and give structure to the faith.

[Warpy]

14. You could always tell him to read the book he's always thumping

and I mean all of it, cover to cover, like a novel. It's amazing the perspective you gain when you don't just concentrate on the few verses you find comforting.

Mohammad was not a nice man. He accepted child brides. He railed against competing religions and said people who failed to submit to his deserved to die. He would not be on my list of polite dinner guests.

However, by the standards of his time, he was a miracle of compassion and tolerance. He gave women rights their Christian sisters could only dream about for the next thousand years, like the right to own their own property instead of being property and the right to be educated.

It's very telling that both Christians and Jews continued to live under Islam even with the special taxes they had to pay as infidels instead of fleeing to Christian areas.

[pitohui]

15. what difference does it make?

i don't know what mohammed or jesus said a million years ago but i know that my muslim in-law had to leave the country of her birth to have opportunity

however nice a guy mohammed may have been to his wives and daughters, however nice a guy jesus may have been to a whore, the fact remains that the most devoted of their followers are opposed to equal rights for women and that's what matters today

don't argue facts or history with a fuckwit, it wastes your time and annoys the fuckwit

or to put it in polite language your baptist pal might recognize, don't cast pearls before swine, and make no mistake, fundies are swine

[kineneb]

16. Islam is overlay on various cultures, gets warped by them

I have actually read most of the Koran (in English trans.). Much of what gets blamed on Islam is actually pre-existing cultural patterns. Especially in Afghanistan, what we see is ancient tribal custom, not really Islam. Most of the Koran is given over to retelling the Old Testament, and drawing lessons from it.

For its day and place, the rules in the Koran are remarkably humane, especially towards women. They given rights to their own property in the Dark Ages, something which women in Europe did not gain until much later. Many of the day-to-day rules are only applicable if one is a nomadic desert dweller. Filtering out the cultural baggage leaves one with essentially the same rules as the OT and NT.

Everyone forgets that Islam as a religion is 600 years younger than Christianity.
2000-600= 1400

How was life in the Christian world in 1400?
Answer: Full of political strife, corruption, wars, hunger, disease, and extreme poverty next to extreme wealth.

And how were 15th century European women treated?
Answer: As possessions, as breeders of heirs, and as a means for binding political ties. Sound familiar?

I am not apologizing for the faults of those that have contorted the messages in the Koran. I simply wish to point out that we are all human and prone to error.

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[Boojatta]

18. "Everyone forgets that Islam as a religion is 600 years younger than Christianity."

Are you suggesting that Islam has not had enough time to grow up or that Christianity caused 600 years of harm and Islam inherited the problems?

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. He did kill people and start wars

But then, he was a military and political leader and not simply a religious one. Does this make every military and political leader who started wars and killed people -- George Washington, Joan of Arc, Moses, King David, just to name a very few -- all horrible people?

Edited for grammar.