So now, what about Judas?

[InvisibleTouch]

Heard a song on the radio this morning that revolved around the betrayal of Jesus to his enemies by one of his closest followers; "one of you will betray me and spend the rest of your life regretting it," something thereabouts. Now, I am not a Christian, but was raised in a Catholic family so I know the mythology/characters in passing, and we're obviously talking about Judas. Who (I think - but someone correct me if I'm wrong) is roundly reviled in the Christian faith for his unspeakable act of betrayal.

But think about it. In order for the whole story to fall into place as it did, it was determined from the beginning and indeed required that Jesus suffer and die for the sins of the world. If Judas hadn't "betrayed" him, it wouldn't have happened. So wasn't that act utterly and completely necessary - indeed, even noble, in the greater scheme of things? Shouldn't Judas, rather than being reviled, be highly revered in the Christian faith?

Or is the horror not that just anyone did it, but that it was done by someone who was close and trusted? This I could somewhat understand from my own life, where I have found the worst of all crimes to be personal betrayal by a close friend. But even then, if I take the long view from a perspective of years later, I find that those actions taught me things I needed to learn and shifted my life in ways that perhaps were "necessary." Indeed, forced me to "rise from the dead" in a minor sense, and become stronger for it.

Anyway. Thoughts?

[Submariner]

1. In this story, I believe Judas was forgiven by God

The gospels, if I recall correctly from sister school, were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The first writings or accounts of the crucifixion were written 35 years after the crucifixion.

Well, we all know how much story can change from one person to another overnight, or over a weekend, so one can imagine how twisted and exaggerated the Jesus and crucifixion story got over 35 years. There has been no evidence found of a Jesus ever existing, so there probably isn't any for Judas either. Just stories and fables from men during the flat earth society era of human history.

[InvisibleTouch]

2. True...

...I'm aware there's no evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus, and it is interesting how the gospels change and grow and expand with increasing time from the supposed event. But you must admit it's a powerful symbolic myth that has affected the lives and outlooks of millions of people. For the better or for the worse is up for debate, and surely a very individual matter. I just found it interesting that the story could not have unfolded and reached its all-important conclusion without the action of the designated "villain."

[angrycarpenter]

3. Judas hung himself from a tree.

According to catholics that is a first class ticket to the lowest pit of hell.

Dantes Inferno has Satan frozen in a lake with judas in his mouth being forever chewed on.

[pocoloco]

5. And how could Jesus allow that to happen?

I think there is much more to the story than meets the eye

[angrycarpenter]

6. Jesus was only human

He almost certainly existed. The story was of a rebellion against the authority of the temple and it's secular power, taxes and required sacrifices. The words are mostly his but the rest is a bunch of made-up stuff to attract followers.

[nemo137]

11. that's because the lowest circle is reserved for treachery

If I remember correctly, it goes treacherous to family, hosts, and benefactors, but it's been a year or so since I had to read the Comedy. You'll note that sharing Satan's mouth with Judas are Brutus and Cassius, Caesar's betrayers.

[angrycarpenter]

13. It's been 25 years since I read it

I had forgotten that he had company. I read it as a young man because I liked the pictures.

[Warpy]

4. Asking questions like that was always forbidden

by the forbidding old nuns in Catholic school while I was there. Since I was a rebel, I was forever asking them and getting told that some things were mysteries of the church and I was just supposed to accept them as an act of pure faith. Since that wasn't in the cards, I spent many a day on my knees on the cold, hard marble floors of the church.

I finally raised enough hell that I was sprung at the ripe old age of 10.

[Zebedeo]

7. Romans 8:28

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Each of us (including Judas) has free will and can choose to do evil or good. Even when we do evil, God finds a way to use it for good in the end.

[davidinalameda]

8. great post!

I had always that thought that Judas had gotten a bad rap, and that Jesus knew that he would betray him, and that Judas HAD to betray him

you have just made me rethink that

thanks

[Hunter Muir]

10. Christianity is a fraud.

If one can credit the New Testament, Christianity did not have a creditable beginning. Judas betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver; while Peter denied Christ thrice. Peter, with the connivance of a confidence man named Paul, went on to capitalize on Christ’s betrayal through the hoax of his resurrection in the world’s longest running pyramid scheme. (Paul’s chain letters, the “Epistles,” are still being circulated in Gideon Bibles left in cheap motels, and there are new suckers signing up every day!) Judas, at least, had the decency to return the money, and go hang himself.

[Zebedeo]

16. Have a Happy

Easter!

[Zebedeo]

18. Thanks, dwickham

Happy Resurrection Day!

[Meshuga]

15. How is it free will

When predestination is involved?

[pingzing58]

9. The bible uses the word "paradidomai" in Greek meaning to "hand over" not betrayal.

In Wikipedia under "Gospel of Judas": According to Elaine Pagels, Bible translators have mistranslated the Greek word for "handing over" to "betrayal".<5> There is a different Greek word for "betrayal", so the original "handing over" should have been applied to make the text read correctly. The Greek word for "handing over" is used in the original texts of the bible in the letters of Paul and the Gospel of Mark.

αποκριθεις δε ιουδας ο παραδιδους αυτον ειπεν μητι εγω ειμι ραββι λεγει αυτω συ ειπας (Mt. 26:25).

Judas did not betray Jesus but handed him over to the Sanhedrin. I believe that there is a historical reason for the money as perhaps used as bounty like a bounty hunter today.

[nemo137]

12. I think a lot of the thrust of the Holy Week was abandonment

Judas betrays Jesus, Peter denies him three times (there's a great painting of this at the Art Institute in Chicago) and the final words from the Cross, in at least one of the Gospels, are "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

It's the idea that you have to be broken down completely to be born again. If some random man had handed Christ over to the Sanhedrin, it wouldn't have had the same role in the story, he had to be betrayed by someone close to him. There's probably a learned commentary on this out there, but as far as I can see, its role in the story is separating Jesus from man as well as God, leaving him completely alone on the Cross.

[merh]

14. And I see the message as different

Judus hung himself, he was that ashamed, contrite, distraught over what he did. My view was that at the time he was asking forgiveness for his sin and as we know, if we only ask for it, even upon the moment of our death, God will give us his forgiveness.

Even as a child I knew that and had disputed the nuns when they said he was the evil betrayer. His betrayal was necessary, and as you say, the betrayal of a perfect stranger would not have had the same impact. Its harder to forgive a friend that betrays us than it is to betray someone who doesn't know us.

[ZombieHorde]

17. I have always thought that Judas was a Biblical hero.

I just typed this in a another post not 5 min. ago. It is funny to come here and see this thread.