Happy Easter. Science News = The Resurrection of Jesus Christ a big LIE? Drug fooled Romans!

[L. Coyote]

Anthropologist Wade Davis studied the zombie phenomena in the Caribbean, even finding a zombie with a coffin nail scar on his face. More importantly Davis discovered the links between tetradoxin poisoning, Japanese fugu (puffer fish), and apparent deaths. Tetradoxin slows metabolism sufficiently to fool medical examiners, as Japanese who enjoy the expensive fugu delicacy have discoverd. Knowledge of African puffer fish effects migrated with slaves, and was uncovered by Davis in the Carribean.

For those who were not there for the cruxificion, Joseph of Armethia, a leading physician of the time, was there, and he handed the sponge of bitter bile to Jesus on the cross.

Now, another anthropologist has put all these facts into a single idea, but has not published the paper yet. Joseph and Jesus fooled the Roman soldiers into believing Jesus was in fact expired. Jesus excaped a Roman death sentence and became a political hero. However, when the drug wore off, walking wasn't fun, and politics was out of the question, what with the hand-shaking. But, he did wake up from the effects of the dangerous drug instead of dying on a cross.

It should be noted, on behalf of the would-be resurrected savior's good reputation with faithful believers, that you do not become a zombie just from taking tetradoxin. As is the case with most 2,000-year-old mysteries, becoming a zombie is more complicated than that!

Hey, I'm not down on the dude. I know how difficult walking on water is, and Jesus walked on water with holes in his feet, which, I assume, is far more difficult.

I do think it will be useful to the future of humanity if science classes teach the scientific version too! :rofl:

Oh yeah, not only don't dead people come to life days later, but in yet another news flash from biologists, rabbits DO NOT lay painted eggs!

[displacedtexan]

1. Sounds vaguely like The Passover Plot.

Did you read that book?

Why did Joe of A. need 100 pounds of burial spices?

Some things that make you go HMMMM in that book.

[L. Coyote]

3. Answer: In case they got caught, he and Jesus could show the burial spices receipt.

:rofl: My best guess! :rofl: Like I said, these guys weren't zombies! :rofl:

[Blue_In_AK]

4. I really enjoyed that book.

I read it probably 30 years ago.

[Wizard777]

7. That purchase would not be uncommon for a spice trader.

It's kinda like asking why Sam Walton would need 100,000 tubes of vagicil. Hmmmmm....... Possibly for resale?

[Richard D]

2. This was the idea in a book . . .

. . . called "the Passover Plot".

[L. Coyote]

5. The book predates this knowledge to science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passover_Plot

The Passover Plot (ISBN 1-85230-836-2) is the name of a controversial, best-selling 1965 book, by British Biblical scholar Hugh J. Schonfield .....

While the book predates this knowledge, I suspect that Schonfield would not contradiction this events version's plausibility. He might find it fits his views.

[mantis49]

30. And it was also an idea in a more recent book,

a novel by Christopher Moore: "Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal."

Funny book!

[Wizard777]

6. I thought Joseph of Armethia was a spice trader? n/t

[displacedtexan]

8. I just remember reading that...

Joe of A. took a huge bag of spices into the tomb
on Friday and carried "it" back out.

Why take such a big, long bag of spices into the tomb?

Hm. What exactly did he carry out of the tomb?

[Harry Monroe]

38. He took a big long bag of "spices" into the tomb??

Probably came out with a big fat doobie!!

[sam sarrha]

9. the Romans probably liked him more than the other Jews of the day, it is said that Mary was raped by

a Roman soldier and impregnated before the wedding to Josef.. common for occupationists thruout history to break in the brides before the wedding bed. to humiliate, oppress and dominate the locals.. it was a small world then.. everybody knew.. they may have gone easyer on him because of that

rent the DVD .. "the War Lord" ,charlton Heston one of my top 10 m0vies, explains this very well

[Wizard777]

28. The Panthera theory. That's up there with the Rite of the Virgule (short sword.)

Oh how to put this? Lets just say that Short Sword was a comment on Panthera's manhood. He was unable to break her hymen.

[Thothmes]

32. Would doubt that the soldiers of 10 Fretensis

would develop a liking for a criminal they were assigned to execute

[tomg]

34. I don't think it was the X Fretensis.

They had been stationed in Judea, but had been transferred to Syria well before 31 ce. After the destruction of Jersualem under Titus in 70 ce, they did become the permanent troops in Jerusalem for awhile. Possibly might have been legionares attached to Pilate, but more probably a local auxilia stationed at the Antonia. Execution was considered a really miserable detail.

[Thothmes]

37. You are correct about X Fretensis.

it III, VI and XII were all in Syria.

[spoony]

10. "Jesus walked on water with holes in his feet"

*flip, flip* What gospel are you reading?

[catnhatnh]

11. Yeah, But if you're poking fun at other peoples religion....

...and on their' high holy days in order to to demonstrate your brand of "big tent" liberalism, you might want to get your main chronology correct by noting Jesus' feet were ventilated at a point after water-walking and to note the biological point more directly involves childrens tales than the theology you mock....But thanks so much for the "thoughts"....

[L. Coyote]

12. I do not discriminate. If we accept one LIE, what happens with the next truth?

I do not discriminate against any religion.
People don't walk on water or rise from the dead.
I have to say, "Sorry, that is not possible."

This has nothing to do with politics, for me.
Albeit politicians take advantage of religions.
It is simple rationality (a scientific world view).

A nation that believes one guy can walk on water and rise from the dead could poses a threat to the rationality of the whole world.

:rofl: We must act before the terror of Easter's irrationality wins over reason. :rofl:

Would the terror of Bush's irrationality wins over reason if the USA were a nation of rational people instead of flocks of faithful?

[catnhatnh]

16. If "simple rationality" brings you to the conclusion...

that it is a liberal and democratic thing to denigrate the religion of other posters during one of their most solemn observences and to accent it with rollicking smileys to note your derision, then congratulations...
you've proven to me exactly the level of your intellect.

[spoony]

17. I look forward to your thread pissing on Purim as well, then.

As well as the holidays of other religions. And as for truth, you can't even keep a simple chronology straight, so you'll pardon me if I find your grasp of truth tenuous at best.

[LeftyMom]

13. There's no credible evidence the Jesus character ever existed.

I'd think people'd have to prove that, and prove somebody crucified him, or at least get some good reason to suspect it, before there'd be any point to speculating about whether he was drugged before crucifixion.

[L. Coyote]

14. You are saying this history is not credible. That's plausible, but unlikely given

all we know of the history that follows the story. It is likeliest Jesus existed, and likely was a thorn in Roman occupation, and sentenced to dead for anti-Roman politics. And his sentence was one typically applied to slaves, the likely primary political conflict with the Hebrews, a population self-identifying as liberated from slavery!

[BurtWorm]

18. Likeliest according to whom?

Likely that a man-god was born of a virgin, raised the dead, walked on water, was raised himself from the dead and ascended to heaven? That's likely?

[spoony]

21. You don't read well.

The poster was talking about the existence of a man, and said nothing whatsoever about any detail of that existence.

[BurtWorm]

22. The OP was full of supposed details of the "scientific" version of Jesus's life--or "death."

Lots of details--none of them based on actual facts, all based on supposition of what must have happened to the guy Christians say rose from the dead. This is very common, for people to scoff at the official biography then turn around and make up one of their own that fits better with their version of reality. Few people stop to consider that maybe the reason the Christian biography is so bizarre is because it's pure myth. Instead, they say he "most likely" existed. Why "most likely?" There's absolutely no good reason to think so.

Happy Easter.

:hi:

[spoony]

25. The OP, as much as I disagree with him, did not argue for

any of the things you used as examples. The post you replied to was solely about Jesus existing, something most people accept whatever their beliefs about his divinity or attributes.

Happy Easter.

[Silent3]

52. The OP's argument, while not claiming the divinity of Jesus...

...is still based on the idea that the popular Christian story of Jesus is very close to true, at least in outward detail.

It makes much more sense to me, however, that the Christian Jesus, and not just the divinity of Jesus, is largely myth, with either no real person at all behind the myth, or perhaps a composite of one or more real people with popular religious themes of the day -- say, perhaps, a Jewish rabble-rouser against the Romans combined with something like the Egyptian god Horus.

I'd need a whole lot more proof that there was an actual Jesus living circa 1 AD, traveling with a band of apostles, tried before Pontius Pilate, sentenced to crucifixion, who as far as the crowds looking on could tell died on a cross, yet somehow appeared to rise from the dead three days later... I'd have to take all of that to be a reliable story before worrying at all about how the apparent death of this Jesus could have been faked.

As it stands, pondering how Jesus could have simulated resurrection from the dead merits little more consideration than trying to figure out how Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer could have faked a luminescent nose.

[Realityhack]

55. what are you refering to

"unlikely given all we know of the history that follows the story."

As far as I know the case for a historical Jesus outside biblical accounts (which are hardly a reliable source and would be circular anyway) is quite thin to non-existant.

What history that followed are you referring to and why does it make a historical figure of Jesus likely?

[DavidDvorkin]

15. Exactly

Coming up with theories to explain religious mythology is silly. It's mythology, and the mythology includes miracles.

Might as well speculate about how Athena really could have sprung fully grown and fully armed from Zeus's head.

[spoony]

19. Lol, I didn't think anyone still used that old line

There are numerous extra-Christian references to cite, if I honestly cared to sway you.

[tkmorris]

23. Not so much actually

Most all of the non-Christian references to Jesus derive from stories told by Christians. NONE are first hand accounts, that I am aware of. If you have any references that are convincing, please do pass them on. The question interests me on an intellectual level, I do not ask simply in order to tear you down.

[BurtWorm]

24. I'm guessing you don't care to sway because you don't have confidence in those sources.

And I don't blame you for that. They've all been critiqued into ineffectuality.

[spoony]

26. You guess as poorly as you read

I, unlike numerous atheists here, am not interested in changing anyone's opinion. I don't really care what people believe, so long as they don't act like superiour prats and denigrate believers. Funny, though, that a Christian is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't push their beliefs you'll say it's because they can't, and if they do then they're fundy proselytisers.

[BurtWorm]

27. I don't care what you believe, but I won't take an assertion about why you believe what you believe

at face value. There may be no definitive answer on whether or not there was a Jesus, but there are better answers about how strong the extra-biblical evidence for a historical Jesus is.

[varkam]

53. As far as I'm aware, the only information about Jesus' life comes from...

the gospels - which were written decades after his (supposed) death. Additionally, none of the historians who were Jesus' contemporaries thought it worthy to give him any mention. Also, there are many, many similarities between Jesus and mythological figures that came before him. Just those three things taken together makes me a skeptic on the existence of Jesus - I could be wrong though. If you have any other info, I'd be interested in seeing it. :hi:

[fascisthunter]

31. Nah man... He Was a Cool Hippy

that smoked tons of the best dope around.

[tomg]

35. I think there is some credible

evidence for the historical existence of this figure. I don't, theologically speaking, have a horse in this race, but historians relatively contemporary to the time do mention him: Flavius Josephus (ce 37 - 100 although the actual reference is disputed) and Tacitus ( who is writing a little bit later but close ce 56-117 and really has his facts down pretty cold). I mean, it isn't hard and fast, but there is a reasonable basis. Everything else that goes along with it - the mythus - is an issue of faith, not what can be seen as the likely (if contested) existence of a historical figure.

[Pavulon]

20. So jesus got bad sushi like homer simpson?

the chemical does not generally make zombies. It is highly toxic and leads to death after paralysis of the muscles needed to breathe stop functioning.

ever wonder why people eat it? Because it gets you HIGH, all warm and tingly as minuscule amounts of the toxin mess with your system.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/07/16/WholeFugu_gallery__470x354,0.jpg

[L. Coyote]

29. In just the incorrect dose, it is a near death experience.

There is an anasthetic plant in the Peruvian Amazon used by healers for GI infections that gives the needle and pin sensation. The tea first numbs the larynx and your voice goes high soprano, then fingers and toes, then as fingers and toes go numb, elbows and knees are getting needles and pins. You have to lie down and wake up in the morning, when all the bad little things in your GI tract are dead and you hold food again--a real lifesaver medicine. It is dangerous, and the healers would not share the plant identity, just the tea.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. Having fun at the expense of soemone else's religion?

How kind and caring

[Pastiche423]

39. How is it at the expense of someone else's religion?

The article in the OP is supposition, just like the stories in the bible. Is it supposed to be a no no to say anything against xtianity? If so, then where is that written?

Every time a poll is taken on DU wrt to religion, the highest percentage goes to non-xtians. That is one of the reasons I love DU so much.

[Stinky The Clown]

40. That all may be true, but religion is a matter of faith for many people ......

.... and so long as they don't project it on me, I will give them the ability to practice it and believe it in peace.

Besides, it might be called 'othering' to project your non-belief on believers.

[Pastiche423]

41. But that's the problem I have experienced throughout my life

"...and so long as they don't project it on me". I am so f'ing sick of it being projected (to use your word) on me, especially when I politely request that they keep it to themselves.

Btw, I will be "othering" any time anyone wants to claim that the United States of America is a xtian nation. It is not. Our founding fathers formed a secular country. Our 1st amendment states there should be a separation of state and church.

If xtians don't like to hear that, then as far as I am concerned, that's tough shit.

[Stinky The Clown]

42. If you're looking for an argument from me, you won't get one .....

..... cuz I'm right there with you.

[Pastiche423]

43. Cool

[MonkeyFunk]

46. Why is it that

anyone's political beliefs can be attacked here with impunity, but people get upset of anyone challenges their religious beliefs?

What's so different about them?

[Realityhack]

56. You are arguing

for a special treatment of religion where unlike other beliefs (say aliens, chemtrails, faeries) it is not subject to any criticism or investigation. Thats an arbitrary, silly, and arguably dangerous distinction.
Just because it involves 'faith' it's off limits huh? Count me out of that one.

[Occulus]

36. Well, well.

Irony ain't dead after all.

[TheMightyFavog]

44. Let me guess. The people behind this...

Were a secret organization dedicated to preserving Christ's bloodline known as "The Grail"

(If you get this obscure pop culture reference, I will automatically consider you an awesome person.)

[FloridaJudy]

47. Hardly obscure

This one surfaces every few years or so, most recently in a really badly written best-selling novel that was turned into an even worse movie. Hint: even Tom Hanks couldn't save it.

The badly researched "non-fiction" book had a kinder fate. That got turned into a really trippy cyberpunk Hollywood opus with great popular appeal. The two sequels to that movie sucked swamp water, though.

[TheMightyFavog]

48. Actually, this wan't what I had in mind...

I was thinking something more in the line of a comic book.

[FloridaJudy]

45. There was a fascinating interview on NPR

With John Dominic Crossan - a former priest who researches historical documents about Jesus. He's come to some very different conclusions than the usual party line.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88675603

[SoCalDem]

49. I'm guessing that his family removed the body in secrecy

so that it would not be defiled.. then they made up the story to "continue" his mystical ministry..

The whole faith is based on mysticism & magic

water to wine
fishes
loaves
the whole virgin birth story
fasting for 40 days

etc etc

[michaz]

50. And you would pick today to knock someone's religion? Good going, jerk!n/t

[struggle4progress]

51. Old idea: Karl Friedrich Bahrdt proposed something like this prior to 1800

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/schweitzer/chapter4.html

[Realityhack]

54. not a new idea, and this pre-suposes

that he existed at all.

In addition I seem to remember something about the wording used for him being 'seen again' transitioning from earlier accounts to later ones from a word that could mean in a spiritual sense to one that meant literally.

[Sanctified]

57. Couple of issues.

First Jesus took a Roman spear in his side, if he was not dead before being impaled by the spear he was certainly dead after it. Second many of his disciples that witnessed his death and saw Jesus resurrected went to their deaths via martyrdom standing by their claims. I think if the resurrection was bullshit these disciples would have recanted before being tortured and executed.