buddhism is just a religion

[niyad]

this was the editorial in our local, reichwing fishwrap this morning. would love to hear some views here--keep in mind that focus on the family is right up the street, as is new life--and we still have the scandal of the fundies trying to force everyone at the air force academy to be fundies


BUDDHISM: SORRY, IT'S JUST A RELIGION
Why the faithful say they're not religious

Buddhists want to build a sprawling center, a mega temple of sorts, outside of Colorado Springs. The center would house private retreats and meditation courses. The group has raised some 80 percent of the $825,000 it needs to buy land and get started. It could open in the summer of 2009.

It's a great idea. Colorado Springs is nothing if not a military town and a hub for religion and athletics. It's the home of mega churches galore, and hosts the world renowned Focus on the Family. More religion means more Colorado Springs and that can only be good. County planners should do nothing to impede progress on the Buddhist center. It's religion, so everyone should get out of the way.

In some other Colorado cities and counties, places more known for Buddhism and hostility to religion, planners have tripped up plans for Buddhist mega centers. A major center near the Springs would attract new residents, lead to growth, and further diversify the city in a positive way.

The only troubling aspect involves a growing misconception among some Buddhist faithful that goes like this: "Buddhism is not a religion."

"A religion means coming back to a paradise lost," said Lama Ole Nydahl, a Buddhist quoted in Saturday's Gazette story about the growth of Buddhism in Colorado Springs. "Buddhism says we never lost it. It was always there. And now we are finding it."

That's nice, but it doesn't make Buddhism something other than religion. Buddhism falls squarely into any definition of religion from any credible source. That's why the communists ejected it from Tibet. It's a set of beliefs. It's a philosophy and set of values people live by. It's a practice. It involves leaders and icons, such as the Dalai Lama, monks and Buddha himself.

More and more, however, followers of religions that aren't traditional in the United States are declaring their disciplines nonreligious. There's a reason for it.

Public schools throughout the country are bringing yoga sessions into their curriculums. Some enlightened parents, who've complained that yoga is a deeply spiritual Hindu tradition, have been told that Hinduism isn't religion and the mantras have been secularized. Imagine secularizing rosary prayers and forcing public school children to recite them with beads in hand.

About.com, a Web site that claims expertise on all matters, wants us to believe that Hinduism isn't religion. The site's Hindu entry says: "Hinduism is a way of life, a dharma. Dharma does not mean religion. It is the law that governs all action."

Sure, and the Halekha, the collective body of Jewish law that governs all action of observant Jews, isn't religious. And the New Testament, a book that governs all actions of some Christian fundamentalists, isn't religion. Oh, and About.com isn't really a Web site. No, it's something far different.

Some adherents to Buddhism, Hinduism and a growing slate of new-age religions want to parade their beliefs as non-religious for a very simple reason: religion is under attack in the United States. Through ignorant and malicious misrepresentations of the First Amendment, anti-religion activists are challenging the free speech rights of religious people, using artificial constructs that say the law protects us from hearing and seeing religion. Even in Christian-friendly El Paso County a valedictorian was told by public school administrators to apologize for thanking Jesus in her graduation speech.

Groups such as the ACLU and the Freedom From Religion Foundation work tirelessly to scour religious expression from public, arguing the Constitution protects us from having to hear annoying or controversial beliefs. In fact, the Constitution protects religious expression and only forbids laws that would force people to accept a particular belief.

And what's included in religion, by law? Almost anything involving belief. A federal court even ruled "atheism" is a religion, freeing a prison inmate to hold study sessions similar to the Bible studies other inmates held.

It's easy to understand why some new Buddhists wants society to exempt them from the label of "religion," which would tag them for exclusion and abuse. If it's not a religion, their children can say "Buddha" at graduation. Nobody will try to ban their favorite speakers from the Air Force Academy with a fabricated law called "separation of church and state." But it's a religion, by any measure imaginable. It's a religion that should be welcomed with open arms by Colorado Springs. And it's a religion that should stand tall, helping to defend the religious freedoms of all.

http://www.gazette.com/opinion/religion_36024___article.html/buddhism_religious.html

[htuttle]

1. The word 'Buddhism' by itself is fairly non-descriptive

There is a vast difference between Tibetan Buddhism (which is, in fact, much like a religion) and Zen Buddhism (which is no more a religion than the belief that shouting 'Serenity Now!' will help you calm down).

[Warpy]

2. Buddhism runs the gamut from a very sparse philosophy/psychology

through a very ornate and ritualistic folk religion rivaling that of Rome.

You can't dismiss the whole of it as "just a religion" because so many adherents aren't religious, at all. That means many don't chant, read Sutras, burn incense, or become monks. They only do the core practice of deep meditation, one that requires no deity or supernatural dimension, at all.

Dismissing it as "just a religion" is as much a mistake as saying it's not a religion, at all. It very much is a folk religion for some people in several sects. It is very much not a religion for others.

[Heidi]

4. And some just practice love, compassion, equanimity, sympathetic joy.

That's hardly a religion, in my opinion and experience. As many see this, it's just doin' the best you can do. Who cares whether that's a religion or not, as long practitioners don't force their beliefs and practices upon others?

:hi:

[bananas]

9. That's also true of Christianity, Hinduism, etc, etc.

[Warpy]

14. Not quite

because all of those have gods that require at least the ritual of prayer.

[bananas]

17. Yes quite

Buddhism is an atheist religion.
Monotheist religions have one god, polytheist religions have more than one god, atheist religions don't have any gods.
The number of gods is irrelevant to whether or not something is a religion.

[Warpy]

18. You just want to define everything in your own terms

It does not work that way.

But thanks for playing.

[bananas]

21. LOL - you've got that backwards

It's not "my own" terms.
Poor baby - you've been a practicing a religion all this time, and didn't even know it!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

re·li·gion Audio Help Pronunciation Key
–noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

—Idiom9. get religion, Informal. a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

<snip>

[Warpy]

29. There are a couple of things that are wrong with your interpretation

I am telling you my definition of myself. You, on the other hand, are trying to define a person you simply do not know. You are clutching a dictionary like it was graven in stone and passed down through the ages like it was the final authority for all things on the face of the earth, yet you won't listen to a primary source.

What is wrong with this picture?

Think again and do keep trying to be this entertaining.

Buddhism is a system of ethics and a psychological system. It has no gods. It is not a religion unless you consider the ceremonial aspects developed by people who need the ceremonial folk religion.

Now do try to find a better dictionary.

[bananas]

30. I apologize

I was tired and cranky and made a snarky comment.
You aren't practicing a religion.

[bananas]

31. Ok, here's the problem

I am telling you my definition of myself. You, on the other hand, are trying to define a person you simply do not know. You are clutching a dictionary like it was graven in stone and passed down through the ages like it was the final authority for all things on the face of the earth, yet you won't listen to a primary source.

The dictionary just lists the common definitions of words.
I don't clutch to it like it was graven in stone.
The meanings of words evolve and change over time,
and the meanings are often vague and imprecise.
On the other hand, you seem to believe that there is only one true definition for the word "religion".

you won't listen to a primary source.

I've listened to and known primary sources.
Are you a Buddhist monk?
Did you grow up in a traditional Buddhist household?
In one of your posts, you said you learned Buddhist meditation to control pain.
If you're just using meditation to control pain, then no, you're not being religious.
And if that's the case, I wouldn't consider you a primary source on Buddhism.

Buddhism is a system of ethics and a psychological system.

It's a lot more than that.
If that's all you know of it, you're missing a lot.

It has no gods. It is not a religion unless you consider the ceremonial aspects developed by people who need the ceremonial folk religion.

You've taken a few small parts of Buddhism and claimed that's all it is.
Buddhism has a long rich history.
Saying this or that isn't part of Buddhism is like some Christians who say Pat Robertson isn't really a Christian,
or Baptists saying that Catholics aren't really Christians.

[DeSwiss]

20. "Atheist religion" = misnomer

[bananas]

22. Nope. nt

[DeSwiss]

26. Religion:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion">religion - re·li·gion Pronunciation

–noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Atheism has no "superhuman agency." Period.

- Have a nice day!

[bananas]

27. "esp." means "especially", not "exclusively".

edit to add:
You also left out:

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

[DeSwiss]

28. I have no issue with Buddists...

...being considered a religionists. Personally, I see them more as followers of a philosophy because there's no test of faith, no rigid rituals one must perform, and no sacred texts that must be inculcated into the belief systems as with Christianity and most of the others.

What I do find almost hilarious are those who wish to place atheism into the same camp as the religionists, when the very concept denies the validity and relevancy of all religions. But then I suppose that it makes it easier for the religionists to label atheists in this way so then they have competing "beliefs." Apparently the idea of "non-belief" is unintelligible.

But again, atheism isn't a belief nor a religion, its a lack thereof. A total absence of belief and support for religions. And while I don't consider myself to be one because I hate labels and refuse to be sucked into that whole mess, I do not for one minute accept the fairy tales of religions. Any cursory historical and/or anthropological review should put this matter to rest. But many refuse to do so in order to maintain the fantasy. I don't agree with this, but I understand why. Fear.

Religionists to me seem to be so worried about convincing everyone else about the veracity of their little mythical tales, tales about "how we got here" and "who did it," and they seem to forget that this isn't the point...

- Have a nice day....

[cosmik debris]

3. Semantic arguments used to promote an agenda

This is clearly a semantic argument. And the agenda is crystal clear. But that doesn't make the argument valid.

And using About.com as a source with "expertise on all matters" is silly.

[niyad]

6. oh, believe me, I know the semantics from this waste of trees.

I am debating about an ltte about this, and am hoping that I can get some really good ideas (by the way, I sent a copy of the editorial to Americans United, thought they might find it interesting)

I loved the "fabricated law of separation of church and state" part. strict constructionists only when it benefits the reichwing fundies, that's the gazette.

[cosmik debris]

7. That line cracked me up too

In fact, all laws are fabricated. I wonder how the author feels about zoning ordinances. Or school speed zones? Damn those fabricated laws.

And of course you can't forget that the "free exercise" clause is part of the same sentence as that fabricated "separation clause". They bear equal stigma!

[niyad]

12. actually, many years ago, the gazette was adamantly opposed to zoning.

used to praise houston for its lack of zoning.

it loves the free market, but has no problem with all the tax-free religious groups here in town.

[electron_blue]

5. How about the fact that there is no God in Buddhism?

Someone's panties are in a wad.

[bananas]

13. Buddhism is an atheist religion.

Some religions are monotheistic,
some are polytheistic,
some are pantheistic,
and some are atheistic.

[Beregond2]

8. Obviously,

from a legal POV, it is a religion, and should be treated as such. On the other hand, it is so different in nature from western religions, it is easy to see how people in this country might conclude it isn't one.

Actually, it isn't quite true to say that there is no God in Buddhism. When asked about God, the Buddha maintained "a noble silence," which has been interpreted in many ways. In my opinion, he wanted to keep people's attention on their own awareness, and not get sidetracked into metaphysical speculations. But if God is defined as the fundamental field of consciousness one unites with in a state of enlightenment, then there is certainly no objection to the idea of God inherent in Buddhism.

I think the comparison of yoga to the rosary is misleading. It would be impossible to strip the latter of it's religious content and retain any purpose at all. Yoga can certainly be practiced as a form of exercise, without the spiritual underpinnings, and be of benefit.

[bananas]

23. That's an interesting thing about Buddhism

Since it doesn't say much about "God", it's compatible with other religions,
so there are Buddhist Christians etc.
Kind of like dual citizenship.
And of course Hinduism includes Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu,
and the Catholic Church canonized Buddha as a saint.

[Dorian Gray]

24. "...and the Catholic Church canonized Buddha a a saint."

They did? When did that happen?

[bananas]

25. How the Buddha Became a Roman Catholic Saint

Real-life Buddhist monk Shinzen Young talks about it here:

http://www.shinzen.org/Talk_Archive.htm

<snip>

How the Buddha Became a Roman Catholic Saint (16 minutes) -- Originating in India, Buddhism spread to other cultural areas such as China and Tibet. As the result of interactions with the preexisting cultures there, new forms evolved. Now coming to the West, Buddhism is engaged in a vigorous cross fertilization on three fronts: with the psychotherapeutic community, the sciences and the "native" religions of the West, especially Christianity. But Buddhism's encounter with Christianity began in a sense a thousand years ago. The outcome is both revealing and surprising. Listen to Windows Media Version http://www.meditationtraining.com/SaveShinzenSiteRedirect/talk0201.asx

<snip>

[Acadia Blue]

10. Its an ethical philosophy not a religion.

[bananas]

11. No, it's a religion, and it's ridiculous to say it isn't.

The Buddha himself established monasteries,
he made rules for the monks to follow,
monks were required to take religious oaths,
etc etc etc...

[Warpy]

15. The Buddha also said all that was unnecessary.

[bananas]

16. You're confusing Buddha with Jesus

Jesus said all that was unnecessary.

[Warpy]

19. Actually, both did

but some people desperately want ritual, from a gambler who wears his lucky shirt for weeks at a time without laundering it to people who demand gilt palaces and incense smoke to accompany their chanting/prayers.

However, what really defines a religion is its gods. Some Buddhist sects recognize the existence of various gods, although even they say gods all come from the same place, the mind.

[jjray7]

32. the label

Is the label "religion" really important? Other than for tax purposes (501(c)(3)), I don't see the point. Even in the area of taxation, educational institutions are exempt in the same manner as religious organizations. Buddhism just is. Once you start with labels and boxes, the thing one describes gets mangled in some fashion.

[ZombieHorde]

33. According to the English language, Buddhism is a religion.

From Dictionary.com

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
If you create your own definition of religion and/or Buddhism, then Buddhism can be anything you want it to be.

The Dali Lama has called Buddhism a religion. Although I have found my own Buddhist religion helpful in generating love and compassion, even for those we consider our enemies, I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.http://www.spiritual-endeavors.org/peace/dalilama.htm

I believe that Buddhism in the U.S. enjoys tax exempt status for being a religion, which makes it legally a religion as well.

So, the dictionary, U.S. government, and the Dali Lama consider Buddhism to be a religion.