Orthodox Jewish youths burn New Testaments in Or Yehuda

[Purveyor]

By The Associated Press

Orthodox Jews set fire to hundreds of copies of the New Testament in the latest act of violence against Christian missionaries in the Holy Land.

Or Yehuda Deputy Mayor Uzi Aharon said missionaries recently entered a
neighborhood in the predominantly religious town of 34,000 in central Israel, distributing hundreds of New Testaments and missionary material.

After receiving complaints, Aharon said, he got into a loudspeaker car last Thursday and drove through the neighborhood, urging people to turn over the material to Jewish religious students who went door to door to collect it.

"The books were dumped into a pile and set afire in a lot near a synagogue," he said.

The newspaper Maariv reported Tuesday that hundreds of yeshiva students took part in the book-burning. But Aharon told The Associated Press that only a few students were present, and that he was not there when the books were torched.

"Not all of the New Testaments that were collected were burned, but hundreds were," he said.

---eoe---

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/985362.html

[YOY]

1. Ah....Fundies reacting to Fundies

nt...

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. Not all Orthodox are fundies ... some are modern. I see nothing

wrong w/sending a message back. No one was harmed.

[YOY]

4. Spare us the "not my religion" pap.

This is an easy case of fundies reacting to fundies. No religion is exempt from fundamentalism.

By the same though of "nobody was harmed" the shooting of the Koran was received poorly (and instigated by methinks) fundies as well.

[Fredda Weinberg]

5. Willful ignorance doesn't make for good policy. But feel superior in

your atheist bigotry. I've seen both sides - and neither knows the full set of facts.

So you are the fundy here, darling ... I'm a happy atheist.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Howardx]

8. better they burn the new testament than plant bombs

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - Police in Israel are considering all possibilities as they look for the person who sent a booby-trapped gift basket to the home of an American Christian pastor in Israel.

The pastor's teenage son was seriously injured when he opened the basket that was delivered to his home a week ago during the Jewish holiday of Purim.

Suggestions that the culprits may be Jewish extremists -- not Palestinian terrorists -- have focused a spotlight on the battle over beliefs that sometimes happens inside Jewish Israel.

Sixteen-year-old Ami Ortiz suffered third degree burns over much of his body, a collapsed lung, two broken arms, and eye injuries. Two of his toes had to be amputated. The blast was powerful enough to blow out windows in the apartment.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200803/CUL20080327a.html

in case you dont like that link
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=182&view=item&idx=1700

[Dorian Gray]

21. Oh

The poor kid. i hope that he will be okay. And I agree.... I'd much rather see them burn the Bible than bomb people.

[Jim__]

27. Burning books or planting bombs is a false dilemma.

Burning books and planting bombs actually go quite well together; as the story that you cite indicates.

[northernsoul]

38. How about engaging in open and reasonable discourse?

Oh wait, that not exactly a cardinal virtue in the world of religious dogma.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

13. "Sending a message back"

Well, I disagree with you. And perhaps that's part of our different outlooks. But I don't see how disparaging someone else's faith adds anything to the practice of one's own.

[Fredda Weinberg]

31. The books were burned to say, "Stop proselytizing"

You think someone was being disparaged? That's your problem, not ours.

[JerseygirlCT]

32. "ours"?

Do you think this is as easy as "us" and "them"?

And do you think that those burning Bibles are encouraging cooperation and respect with that behavior, or just indulging their own anger?

[Fredda Weinberg]

40. Who's demanding cooperation? All they want is to be left alone

I can make it in the secular world, but don't hold others to my standards. That's respect.

Their anger is justified ... the survivors will pass on and so will this first generation. Our descendants should have less sensitive responses. Indulgence? No, this was a mild demonstration and no one was hurt.

[Meshuga]

41. One wrong does not justify another

Should these fanatics burn a book that represent all Christians because a group of missionaries will do all that is possible not to go away? Think about it. There is nothing in Jewish Law (something these guys claim to follow to the point that they attack those Jews who don't) that justifies this behavior.

The worse part is that this intolerant demonstration, by this supposedly ultra-religious Jews and Torah followers, is an act that many will judge Jews as a whole and tag all Jews as being intolerant of other religions. It happens and these guys are helping in that regard.

Not to mention that the concept of a Jew burning books is abhorrent to Jews not only because of the association with Nazis torching piles of books during the Holocaust but because in the centuries we lived under different rules our literature was also burned in attempts to destroy out heritage.

I know that not all orthodox act this way but these guys are not modern orthodox. They are fanatics and like YOY said, they are fundamentalists.

[YOY]

36. If you're really an "atheist" then it's not a "yours" or "ours" thing, isn't it?

Fredda, If you're Jewish just admit to being Jewish and be happy. Nobody could ask more of you.

[Fredda Weinberg]

39. The Nazis taught "us" that we can't deny our heritage. I won't be fooled n/t

[Meshuga]

42. Being Jewish doens't mean one is a believer

Identity and peoplehood are more important in Judaism than certain belief.

[northernsoul]

37. I am opposed to burning any book for any reason

I carry no brief for the Christian scriptures, but I will oppose the burning of that book or any other book with every fiber of my being. Book-burning is a thug's affront to the principle of open and reasoned discourse.

[Turbineguy]

3. That New Testament is bad news anyway.

"The Four Gospels are terrific reading, but there’s just no Money in them. This New Covenant stuff really does not help. If God is going to forgive you for your sins anyway, what’s the point of giving Money to the church? It’s more satisfying to go to a massage parlor that gives “happy endings”."

http://vincentbiss.wordpress.com/

[no_hypocrisy]

7. That might hurt the feelings of the Christian Zionists . . . .

And btw, does anyone else find the whole book burning scenario a bit ironic in consideration of how that was a favorite past-time in Nazi Germany (especially Jewish authors).

[JuniperLea]

10. The entire I/P deal is ironic for that matter

I demand you acknowledge my right to exist while I deny you the same.

There are many religious groups living in Israel, it is not 100% Jewish. What do they profess be done with the non-Jewish population? Ship them off to concentration camps? Oh, wait...

[Meshuga]

12. I hope you are not generalizing the Jewish population

And I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But the feeling of this fringe haredim group does not reflect the feeling of the entire Jewish population (the vast majority being secular and zionist).

So I fail to see the entire I/P deal being oversimplified to being a struggle of this hateful ultra-orthodox group like you seem to imply.

[JuniperLea]

14. No, it's always the extremists in any cult that cause the problems

Same goes for Christians.

A friend of my cousin's family (they live in Israel) was blown up and injured very badly when a fake purim gift was brought into his house... the story is posted upthread... I'm well aware, maybe more so than many, that it's the extremists of the world who are the filthy pigs who bring shame upon the rest. I don't use broad brush strokes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=171310&mesg_id=171330

Everyone has a right to exist, imho, unless they deny the same for others.

[Meshuga]

16. I agree with you, these fanatics...

...are a fucking embarrassment. They are not tolerant of non-orthodox and secular Jews so you can imagine how they feel about non-Jewish groups.

The problem is that they have no shame even if you bring up the whole "nazi book burning" parallel to them.

[JuniperLea]

17. They can't see the log in their own eye...

while pointing to the sliver in another's.

[Meshuga]

19. Look in halakhah which they see as binding

and you will see that one of the worst law breakers is the act of khillul hashem which is to make God look like an asshole. So for someone who sees Torah (which is supposed to be god given law) as binding, to act in such a way is an example of this khillul hashem. They make god look like a schmuck who tells them to mistreat others and, for example, beat a women who dares to get on a bus that is full of males.

[JuniperLea]

28. Hmmm... sort of like Hagee saying

They won't preach Christianity in Israel because the Jews don't like that... even though the Christian God tells him to preach to all of the lands of the world.

Cherry picking God's work... man alive... Dogma is ruling the world.

[Meshuga]

35. These guys who claim to be halakhic (keepers of Jewish law)

forget important rules in order to remain hateful. But at least they pre cut their toilet paper on Friday afternoon otherwise it would be hard for them to wipe their asses without desecrating the sabbath. The horror! :-)

[Howardx]

15. fringe haredim group

that always the story, "a few bad apples" "fringe group" i dont buy it anymore.

[Meshuga]

18. What do you mean?

I understand criticism as far as these fringe groups being tolerated at all and the fact that they might have any political say. But willingness to broadbrush without getting informed is nothing but ridiculous.

The vast majority of Israelis are secular Jews and the vast majority of religious Jews (about 90%) are non-orthodox. Look at their organizations and you will see they are for religious freedom in Israel and active about it.

[Howardx]

20. the vast majority of religious Jews (about 90%) are non-orthodox.

yet they let the settlers and fundies dictate what happens.

[Meshuga]

23. The biggest mistake from the non-orthodox movements...

...was to "ignore" Israel since America was (and still is) its center. That allowed the orthodox to control the religion in Israel. Secular Jews are the majority in Israel but only now they are organizing as a movement.

Non-orthodox religious (Conservative and Reform) are a minority in Israel but they have the means to change things and their recent focus is to be heard in Israeli politics and change the tables, including gaining their own religious freedom which they don't currently have.

The orthodox wants to make Israel into an orthodox Jewish state but that is not going to happen because Israel cannot exist without the support from the liberal Jewish communities in the United States.

I think the orthodox have their days counted as far as being a political force at all.

[cosmik debris]

24. I wonder if that also applies to the USA (in a general way)

Fundy Christians control many of our government policies, but they are on their way out.

[Meshuga]

25. I surely hope they are on their way out . n/t

[JuniperLea]

29. I hope all religions lose their hold on American government...

It's totally not fair... especially to an Agnostic or Atheist. I don't recall seeing anywhere written a law of God saying we should force everyone to abide by God's laws... that's why we were given free will.

[Meshuga]

34. Government is to be secular

I totally agree with that. But I don't see other religions (and liberal Christianity) trying to force everyone to abide by God's laws. I might be wrong but I can't think of an example of that coming from anybody but fundies.

[Meshuga]

11. I also find it ironic

These orthodox groups are the same that burned books written by non-orthodox Jewish rabbis for having a different point of view. Anybody with a different point of view will get the same treatment. It's fucking ridiculous.

[Sanctified]

22. Well at least they are not asking the Italians to crucify the missionaries. n/t

[John Gauger]

26. Please, PLEASE, tell me that you did not just blame the crucifixition of Jesus on the Jews.

[JerseygirlCT]

33. Good heavens... nt

[knitter4democracy]

30. Kind of understandable, really.

Some mission team comes through, stands on street corners passing out New Testaments, yeah, I can see why they'd be upset. I think burning the books went too far, but I can understand the anger.

I saw some of the same anger in Russia (a Christian country since 988 but for the years the Soviets were in charge, and then, most people stayed whatever faith they were already) at Western Protestant missionaries. What they needed was help rebuilding their own churches, not new ones brought in by people who didn't have a clue about the history or culture of the country.

[LucyParsons]

43. Louis Black

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g&feature=related