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An example of how the misuse of language can generate pseudo-problems

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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 04:21 PM
Original message
An example of how the misuse of language can generate pseudo-problems
Fact Situation:
A woman goes to the grocery store while her husband stays home and looks after their two children, aged seven and nine. When she returns, she sees dozens of bullet holes in the windows. Inside, the dead bodies of her husband and two children are on the floor, oozing blood, and already starting to grow cold.

Pseudo-Problem #1: Why does such monstrous, criminal evil exist?

Solution: Evil doesn't exist. The only things that exist are matter, energy, space, and time.

Pseudo-Problem #2: What can explain the entry of destructive outside forces into the tranquility of a happy domestic world?

Solution: Any event can be explained when we recognize that the universe began with the big bang and changes in accordance with inexorable natural law. Gravity causes gigantic clouds of gas to condense and become stars. Had stellar evolution not occurred, then her husband and children wouldn't have been warm to begin with. If demonic evil resided outside of the world and occasionally intruded into it, then the delicate balance of the world would be upset. It would be possible for breakfast cereal to immediately become soggy when milk is added. The hard-won accomplishments of the companies that make breakfast cereal could be lost. However, that doesn't happen. The cereal remains crispy for at least a few minutes while people watch TV and receive news about murders such as the one described above.

Pseudo-Problem #3: How should she cope with such a surprising and horrible event?

Solution: Obviously she was surprised to see the bullet holes and the dead bodies of her husband and children. However, the conflict between her expectations and the actual course of events cannot be blamed on the universe. The universe, as already explained, operates according to inexorable natural law. The best way for her to cope is for her to recognize that the conflict between her expectations and the actual course of events has its origin in her erroneous expectations. She can expect more rude shocks in the future unless she improves her understanding of matter, energy, space, and time. She needs education.

Pseudo-Problem #4: When police officers arrive at the scene, what should they do to console her?

Solution: They shouldn't do anything to console her. If she were watching a sad movie and, coincidentally, the police arrived at her home to ask her questions about one of her neighbors, then she wouldn't expect them to console her. The police have a job to do and they shouldn't have to dabble in psycho-babble.

Pseudo-Problem #5: Should arrangements be made for clergy to be present at a funeral for her husband and children?

Solution: No, for all practical purposes the brains of clergy-persons have been pickled in a supersaturated solution of barbaric superstition. They are part of the problem. They're not part of the solution.

Pseudo-Problem #6: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Solution: "Bad", like "evil", is a meaningless word that generates pseudo-problems such as this.

Pseudo-Problem #7: What can be done to help her cope with her loss?

Solution: She hasn't lost anything. Her husband and children were lumps of flesh and they remain lumps of flesh. The only genuine problem is that the flesh will begin to rot. Using embalming techniques, it is possible to preserve the bodies just as V. I. Lenin's body was preserved. Then her husband and children could serve a useful purpose around the house. For example, they could be used as paper weights or door stops.
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Gundam Macross Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why punish the murderers?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. If any atheist had posted such a ridiculous, distorted caricature about a believer,
Edited on Sun Dec-14-08 04:45 PM by trotsky
(or religious beliefs) I would lobby for such a thread to be locked - as they usually are.

Just what do you hope to accomplish by posting such inane crap?
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. "ridiculous"
Edited on Sun Dec-14-08 05:24 PM by Boojatta
I listed seven questions (labeled as "pseudo-problems") and provided a solution for each. Of those seven solutions, how many contain statements that you consider to be both false and ridiculous?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I consider the whole thing ridiculous.
No atheist I have ever met or known would give those answers to a person with deep emotional pain. For you to suggest otherwise is highly insulting and hurtful in itself.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Consider, for example, Pseudo-Problem #3 and the first sentence in the solution.
Pseudo-Problem #3: How should she cope with such a surprising and horrible event?

Solution: Obviously she was surprised to see the bullet holes and the dead bodies of her husband and children.

The dialog is about the woman whose husband and children were killed, but she isn't a participant in the dialog. Both the question and the solution refer to her in the third person. The answers aren't given to her.
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
It has very little to do with how things actually work in the human part of the universe.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. In the interest of a stable ecosystem
Quit wasting all that straw!
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. She didn't lose anything?!
If I came home and found my children murdered, and even my STBX-husband lying there, dead, too, I sure as hell would think I'd lost something. People are more than just lumps of flesh! My children are worth far more to me than any lump of metal or rock or whatever, and they're far more than just some lump of flesh! What about their minds and their souls?

:wtf:
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's just another one of Booj's "performance art" posts.
He evidently wants you to think that atheists don't value life or love.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well, I know better than to believe that.
Still, what a horrible thing to write. Just plain horrible.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Boogatta likes to throw up these strawmen
and then knock the shit out of them to show us how cool he is. Like any other troll, the more you ignore him the quicker he'll go away.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You're right.
I had him on ignore before and then figured it's wrong to ignore people like that and took him off, but now I'm re-thinking that. *shudder* What a horrible thing for anyone to say.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Was the idea proposed by Swift for dealing with an Irish famine
Edited on Wed Dec-17-08 10:31 AM by Boojatta
nothing more than a straw man attack on Swift's political opponents? By putting forward that idea, was Swift behaving as a troll?
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. You are no Swift. Don't flatter yourself.
Satire is not about strawmen. If you don't understand that, then you need to study about it more.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I know that I don't write works comparable to works that are credited to Swift.
Edited on Fri Jul-09-10 02:15 PM by Boojatta
Please quote a block of text written by me that suggests otherwise, if there is such a block of text.

Whether or not Swift actually wrote those works is another question. Below is a link to a poll along those lines...

nationality and economic status
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Post 24 is a comparison to Swift
to answer someone who claims you are just creating strawmen. If you didn't mean to compare yourself to Swift, then why is that the subject of the post? If you were to say to me "My, you can only do 50 pushups; you are certainly out of shape" and I were to reply with "But Adrian Peterson can only do 50 pushups" everyone would realize that I am making a comparison between myself and Mr. Peterson. Not sure how you don't understand that unless you are being deliberately obtuse.

I don't care whether the person we called Swift was the person that actually penned the works. Matters not to me.
And your link to your own poll certainly sheds not light on that question were I so inclined.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. "Not sure how you don't understand that unless you are being deliberately obtuse."
Perhaps you over-estimate my intelligence, and upon seeing signs that I lack intelligence, you mistakenly attribute those signs to an intentional refusal by me to think.

Assume that, for every document, if it uses satire, then it doesn't commit any straw man fallacies.
Assume that the document "A Modest Proposal" uses satire.
Then, you could conclude that "A Modest Proposal" doesn't commit any straw man fallacies.

The following seem to be two different questions:
  • Did I compare myself to the author of "A Modest Proposal"?
  • Did I intend to compare myself to the author of "A Modest Proposal"?


If we assume that reincarnation is impossible, then we can conclude that I wasn't alive when "A Modest Proposal" was first published. Therefore, if I were to compare myself to the author, then I would be comparing myself to someone who wasn't me. If reincarnation is possible, then it's not obvious how you arrive at the conclusion that I didn't write "A Modest Proposal." On the other hand, if I did write "A Modest Proposal", then I might have changed significantly since then, and any comparison between myself today and myself back in those days could be inappropriate.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. pseudo-problem solutions
Solution to Pseudo-Problem #1: If evil is viewed as an emotional response to stimuli, then evil can easily exist.

Solution to Pseudo-Problem #2: Since both destructive outside forces exist (depending on one's view of 'outside'), and happy domestic 'worlds' exist, the two coming together should not be any more surprising than milk and the kitchen floor coming together.

Solution to Pseudo-Problem #3: In some people's view of Buddhism, this view is accurate on a base level. Generally speaking, many people have reported being helped by consoling, exercise (such as yoga), or art.

Solution to Pseudo-Problem #4: I have nothing to add.

Solution to Pseudo-Problem #5: Funerals are for the living, and for many, funerals are part of the grieving process. Whether or not a clergy member should be contacted should be based on the families religious beliefs. Many clergy members act as consolers, this may be one of their more honest roles.

Solution to Pseudo-Problem #6: I have nothing to add.

Solution to Pseudo-Problem #7: The stated solution may work for a few humans, but most will not find comfort in those words. Solution to Pseudo-Problems #3 and #5 may be a better place to start for most. Side note: Embalming fluids should never be used since they ruin the flavor of the cadaver.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kellogg's may appreciate your rhetoric, but I do not!
Even for you, Boo, this is pretty effed in the a.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. Your thread talks about misuse of language.
Then you propose solutions to pseudo-problems. Tsk tsk tsk.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. De do do do, de da da da
Is all I want to say to you.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. True,but
who benefits?
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Big Pharma
It's always Big Pharma.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I don't think big pharma
is benefitting in this case.
Call it a hunch.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Big Pharma always benefits
Ask turtlensue. Of course she'll deny it, but that's how you'll know. :evilgrin:
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Now that Big Pharma has joined the triad of
The Illuminati, The Freemasons, and The Jewish Bankers, world domination is a fait accompli.

It is only a matter of time until they dominate the entire universe!
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. For now, it suits Big Yak for them to believe that.
They are just pawns in Big Yak's game.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. You forgot the Jesuits. nt
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. It occurred to me that you might claim that
Edited on Wed Dec-17-08 10:28 AM by Boojatta
the whole thing is true, but insist on reserving the option of refraining from claiming that all parts are true. Although that particular combination of refraining from making one claim while making another claim seems to me at best misleading, it seems similar in spirit to the relatively common practice that people have of asserting something like "every statement in this document is false" or "every step in this reasoning is invalid" when there is reason to suspect that they will simply ignore evidence that some statements in the document are true or that some steps in the reasoning are valid.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. I like pumpkin pie
Kittens are cute.

The moon is made of green cheese.

Antidisestablishmentarianism!

Graggle these crotchits, juggins.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kick
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. Existing
"The only things that exist are matter, energy, space, and time."

And let me guess, before the great ex nihilo event of Big Bang nothing existed, or rather, didn't exist? Sorry to say but the the firm belief of reductionists in antireductionistic logical fallacy of "ex nihilo universitam" seems rather self-contradictory and irrational.

Phenomenology is at least logical and in sync with foundations of quantum physics when aknowledging that experiencing as it happens exists.


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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. This OP is hilarious. I laughed several times while reading it again. nt
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
30. Kick
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
31. Kick
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
36. Well, that's what she gets for flirting with the check out boy.
God may work in mysterious ways, but he sure as hell hates loose women, apparently.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kick because there are always new members at DU.
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dimbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Of course the Gnostics resolved #1 long long ago.
They noticed that Yahweh is blind and crazy.

For some reason they were later suppressed. They did, however, leave behind some wonderful nomenclature.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
39. Boojatta, my compadre
you are a nut case!

:hug:
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Perhaps, but I evoke laughter from ZombieHorde.
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