I see no reason to respect any person's or group's beliefs.

[RadiationTherapy]

There are laws of the land and laws of this board regarding personal interactions; I respect those laws.

There are my own personal set of rules on how I treat people and how careful I am not to be hurtful; I respect those rules.

I may be civil and I may be law-abiding, but I have little to no respect for religion nor the power dynamics it fosters. However:

Similar to how many religions view homosexuals, I hate the "sin" of religion and love the "sinner" - the human beneath the religious facade.

Another similarity is that I hope to someday see religion and all other power dynamics eradicated (many religions hope to see homosexuals and all other "sinners and non-believers" eradicated) ushering forth a 1000 years of - human induced; LOVE induced - peace.

If you disagree with me, I promise not to make up an illusory, tortuous underworld where I will claim you will suffer for not believing the same as I do.

[Ian David]

1. Non-Atheists will drown for eternity in The Flying Spaghetti Monster's giant pot of hot tomato sauce

In the FSM's name we pray.

Ramen.

[KG]

15. my Ceiling Cat trumps your puny sketti monster! FSM believers are damned to the Litter Box Hell!

[Dr.Phool]

32. Any meatballs in that pot?

If not, get some!

[panader0]

2. While I am not religious

I am tolerant of others religions, AS LONG AS, they are tolerant as well. I feel the same way about people's sexuality and lifestyles. Two wrongs don't make a right. The differences in people/culures should be celebrated. A world where everyone is the same would be boring and dangerous.

[RadiationTherapy]

4. I am tolerant of humans despite what they believe or not. I hope I did not come across otherwise.

[hlthe2b]

38. Actually, you did come across otherwise...

But I'm glad you clarified.

[hlthe2b]

10. Thank you... Trading disrespect for disrespect gets us nowhere.

[RadiationTherapy]

12. I carefully indicated that I respect people.

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I think we should also note that withholding respect for something does not...

necessarily indicate an overt disrespect. For example, there are beliefs and practices in the literate monotheistic traditions I cannot respect. But I would never engage a believer in a debate about those points or belittle them for holding such beliefs. Simply not my place.

[polmaven]

37. You and I have sometimes disagreed

but we have, on the whole, been able to disgree in an agreeable manner. This time I am in complete agreement with you. Disrespect does not create acceptable discourse. :hi:

[roguevalley]

43. agreed. if you notice, the part of religious that wants to make the

gay disappear is small, just like the part of Islam that wants the infidels to die. to blame all for the actions of a few is to blame ALL WHITE MEN for the actions of Bush and Cheney. Think about it.

[frazzled]

3. As long as you don't expect anyone to respect your belief, as stated

Cause it has to work both ways, right?

I take no stand on the crazy religion bashing/supporting. I stand in neither camp. But I am uncomfortable about both religious zealots and anti-religious zealots in equal measure. Most people are neither.

[RadiationTherapy]

6. Of course I don't. What I believe is silly; it pertains only to my experience.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

5. Agreed

I respect the laws of both our country and DU regarding freedom of religion. I don't respect religion and faith in general. I don't understand belief in something you have no proof of and certainly don't respect it or people that ascribe to that belief.

[BobRossi]

7. As long as you expect the same.

Personally, It is my belief that the more respect we show one and other the better of human kind will be.

[RadiationTherapy]

11. I explicitly stated I respect people, if not their beliefs.

If your identity is inextricably linked to your beliefs, I will notice and tread carefully. I will not respect the belief itself, though.

[geek tragedy]

8. Care must be shown to respect the person even if you

disrespect their beliefs. This is actually pretty tricky.

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. Not really. With my extended family it's pretty much become a way of life.

:-)

[geek tragedy]

29. True, but when debating non-family members, it's hard

to respect people who have outrageous beliefs.

[AllentownJake]

9. There will always be power dynamics

As a species we are social tribal creatures. It comes with its good and its bad. The good is we come together and help one another, the bad is we have a tendancy to attack those outside our particular "tribe"

Its the way we are. The question is not how you erradicate it, it's how you control those tendancies in us. Those tendancies can be no more erradicated in the human species as I could erradicate the cat I adopted to not go into the trash can during the day when I'm not home. I can sit around for hours complaining about my cat going through the trash can but its not her fault, she does it as a survival thing. She was rescued from a barn and that's how she fed herself as a kitten. So instead, I got a trash can with a lid now she can't get into the trash.

You eliminate religion tommorow. I guarentee you something will take its place for tribes to form. The solution is maintaining peace amongst tribes not trying to erradicate one of the things people formulate a tribe around.

[RadiationTherapy]

17. Well, we are moving - slowly - into the Age of Aquarius during which we will be

kinder and less competitive. We will make the focus of education, technology, and business to improve the standard of living for all humankind. Economies will be measured by charity, artistic output and free time to pursue personal endeavors. It will last approximately 2000 years.


Cool, huh?

[AllentownJake]

20. Actually I think another dark ages is upon us

percipitated by a collapse of the US economic system. I'll hope for your optimism and hope my naturual cynical beliefs about the Human Species are wrong.

[RadiationTherapy]

26. The point is, is what we believe hardly pertains to one another -

unless we want it to.

[cobalt1999]

13. As long as the believers respect society

Which means they don't get to try and force their rules on everyone else, and they don't get special exemptions from rules & taxes for their beliefs.

[The2ndWheel]

21. "they don't get special exemptions from rules"

Isn't that forcing your rules on someone?

[cobalt1999]

28. Every society has rules and obligations

We all have to pay taxes, EXCEPT for churches, mosques, synagogues.

We all have obey the laws and regulations of the society in which we live. For example, I can't commit armed robbery without breaking societies rules.

We as a society work out which freedoms, rules & laws we should implement. Religion is not a valid excuse to either gain additional freedoms or have less freedoms. Religion is not an excuse to be exempt from a societies laws, or to have additional laws only applied to them.

If a rule isn't wanted, the society needs to change it for EVERYONE.

[struggle4progress]

40. The federal tax-exemptions enjoyed by some religious institutions fall under a broader class of

exemptions for non-profits: 501(c)(3)

Every organization for which I have ever volunteered, except actual political campaigns, has been a 501(c)(3): this includes human rights organizations, soup kitchens, environmental advocacy organizations, and so on

So your claim We all have to pay taxes, EXCEPT for churches, mosques, synagogues seems to be ignorant nonsense

[The2ndWheel]

41. That's a funny thing about society

Before we can have a society for everyone, we have to make sure everyone will obey the rules.

Obviously it has to be more difficult to form any sort of alternative, so it has to be easier to follow the rules then not, whether you agree with any of the rules or not. Like you said, no picking and choosing. As an example, you don't get to not pay for our war machine, even if you don't believe in it, outside of not paying taxes, which then means you'll be in jail or paying a fine.

[Pacifist Patriot]

14. I can appreciate that even though for me personally I would probably say...

There are religious groups and religious beliefs I cannot and do not respect. As a religious non-theist I do see value in some religious perspectives and practices.

You have reminded me of another pet peeve of mine that I see alot on internet forums. The assertion that one cannot be argued with if stating "it's my opinion." Just because someone holds something as an opinion does not render it immune from disagreement. Opinions are not facts, but they can be valid or invalid. I will defend someone's right to proclaim their opinion, but refuse to thereby render it inviolate.

[The2ndWheel]

16. "and all other power dynamics eradicated"

Although it would take a power dynamic to eradicate all other power dynamics.

[RadiationTherapy]

18. Damned word choice. I knew it sounded harsh.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. ........

[guitar man]

24. Whether you respect it or not

Everyone has to have something to believe in.

As for me, I believe I'll have another beer!

:beer:

:toast:

[hunter]

25. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is bullshit. It's still hate.

There's no clear dividing line between the person and their "sin" and no clear dividing line between what you perceive as a "sin" and what another person perceives as a "sin."

You end up having to love everyone so what's the point of mentioning the "sin" except as a thinly veiled means of expressing your own hatred?

In my experience people who persist in using that phrase even after someone calls them on it are liars. They don't love the "sinner" at all, they hate them.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. For what it is worth, most who use that pharse ARE liars

because most of them claim it is from the Bible, which is it not. Just something they made up to rationalize their personal hate.

[cali]

27. i disagree with you, and sorry, I'm not religious.

What I disagree with is your broad brush and I don't care for the "hate the sin, love the sinner" crap however it's tarted up.

[LanternWaste]

30. I'll respect both the person and the belief

As for me, I'll respect both the person and the belief unless and until I have compelling reason to do otherwise. Seems to me that if we set our default position to 'respect', that 1000 years of peace you speak of may begin a little sooner and last a little longer.

More often than not, I simply don't have the relevant knowledge to pass a judgment of disrespect onto another belief. However, I'm the first to say that I'm not very clever-- I'm sure many, many people know all they need to know about a religion, or a philosophy, or any other man-made construct to righteously ridicule it.

[nichomachus]

31. It's not quite that simple

You need to separate personal beliefs from public behavior

I respect everyone's right to believe anything they want.

When you're sitting in your living room, you can believe the most outrageous and bizarre things -- and I will defend your right to do that.

However, once you enter the public arena and try to set public policy, to tell me how to behave, and to restrict my activities, then you'd better have an argument that doesn't rely on your religious beliefs. You need to come up with arguments that all people, regardless of religious beliefs, can reasonably agree with.

Suppose you believe that your god requires you to give 50 percent of your salary to your minister. If you want to do that, bully for you. Be my guest. I may think you're incredibly stupid -- what with your minister flying between his mansions in his private jet and all -- but I will defend your right to be that stupid.

However, if you try to pass a law that says everyone has to give 50 percent of their salary to your minister, then you're itching for a fight. And pointing to some 2,000-year-old scroll isn't going to convince me. I will fight you every step of the way.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. The problem is how bizarre beliefs can incite outrageous behavior.

And *sigh* as a minister (non-Christian clergy) I can tell you that there is a gaping chasm between the compensation of the vast majority of clergy (non-Christian and Christian) and televangelist / prosperity theology nitwits. But the amount of money these charlatans can rake in should be proof that those private beliefs translate into piss poor behavior. My elderly grandmother choosing to send 50% of her month's maintenance check because she believes it will save her from hell is holding on to a damaging belief that doesn't deserve respect.

[Occam Bandage]

34. 'sokay. I don't respect yours.

:hi:

[omega minimo]

36. and a further connection of the dots will encourage you to promote and support women's rights

[RadiationTherapy]

39. I consider myself 'there' when it comes to rights. What do you mean?

[omega minimo]

45. "all other power dynamics" and "how many religions view homosexuals"

are intimately related to the rights (or not) of women.

[Baikonour]

42. Sam Harris said it best, I believe (no pun intended)...

"The very ideal of religious tolerance — born of the notion that every human being should be free to believe whatever he wants about God — is one of the principal forces driving us toward the abyss."

Indeed.

[Evoman]

44. I don't respect the belief that Harry Potter is good reading for anybody over 8 years old.

Deal with it, you Harry Potter loving suckers.

:hide:

[paulsby]

46. no correlation between eradicating religion and peace

"Another similarity is that I hope to someday see religion and all other power dynamics eradicated (many religions hope to see homosexuals and all other "sinners and non-believers" eradicated) ushering forth a 1000 years of - human induced; LOVE induced - peace."

considering all those oh so peaceful religion-free (actually religion banning) regimes such as the USSR, not to mention pol pot khmer rouge mao etc. etc.

prior to the 20th century (before the advent of officially atheist regimes), there weren't metric assloads of data points to refute the theory that religion is the cause of war, suffering, etc. and an enemy of peace.

it's just an excuse for it.

[More Than A Feeling]

47. You're generalizing.

There is no monolithic "religion."

[Kablooie]

48. To 'respect' means you agree they have the right to their beliefs. I do.

But they don't have the right to foist their beliefs on me.

[struggle4progress]

49. So what? I mean, really.

[Deep13]

50. In point of fact, I do not respect religious beliefs.

It would be dishonest to pretend that I do. And unlike many believers who are able to talk themselves into believing or not believing something, I am unable to do so. I frankly think that the need for religious faith encourages that kind of self-deception. As you say, I draw a distiction between people and their beliefs. I like and respect many religious people, but I still think their beliefs about god are factually wrong and even foolish. It is the religious idea of respect for religion that imposes the social convention of respect for belief. As a nonbeliever, I am not bound by that convention. Others who insist that I play by their religious rules are guilty of a kind of bigotry. Now, I try not to be rude or to antagonize people. Still, merely discussing the nonexistence of god and my conviction that believers are factually wrong is not rude, at least not without the religious rule of respect for religion.

[cosmik debris]

51. I don't respect fascism, I don't respect racism, and I don't respect theism.

Some beliefs are just not respectable.